Cyprus-Forum.com

[Acikgoz]

To be honest MP, would happily, but whenever I get to anything more than general opinions the string of the discussion goes all over the place.

Here goes fingers crossed the monkeys from Wizard of Oz 2 aren't circling around!

Turkey's regional influence is growing, TRNC is making more inroads towards making people aware of it's own issues. In the current debate TCs are being portrayed as more concilliatory etc. Example of where this opinion comes from is, major interventions are having to be made at the 11th hour from statements being aired that would undermine GCs position on Cyprus by various bodies and persons. Objecting to dialogue with TRNC in situation where humanitarian issues are involved such as docking of ships in Famagusta at time of crisis, bird-flu, education, sports, crime and medicine earns no plaudits. Over time awareness changes as TCs have finally started filling the void of mis-information. All this does is take the edge off, Cyprus in EU means that block will keep pressure on TRNC & Turkey, no recognition, but that'll pretty much be it. Some compromises will be forthcoming, if not via the EU then elsewhere, it is inevitable - so long as the dialogue continues and TCs show they genuinely want to work towards a solution.
RoC pushes too hard - I find it deeply disturbing - others do to. Rarely in politics is it good to have the reputation RoC is getting for itself in the EU circles - unless you are happy to be used.

Naturally people seek adventure and opportunity. How long will GCs wait to access Turkish ports for the oil that can be transported for a profit, or Varosha, just sitting there, what developer worth his/her salt has not figured how they could transform it into a tourist's paradise with the tills ringing in cash by the second... End of isolation is a reward in itself. After seeing no-one shouting uncle at the pressures being bought to bear and no stick of EU membership, time to revise what to do next - adventure and opportunity in the status quo.

[Malapapa]

To be honest MP, would happily, but whenever I get to anything more than general opinions the string of the discussion goes all over the place.

Here goes fingers crossed the monkeys from Wizard of Oz 2 aren't circling around!

Turkey's regional influence is growing, TRNC is making more inroads towards making people aware of it's own issues. In the current debate TCs are being portrayed as more concilliatory etc.

I'd like to see some objective evidence of this in the non-Turkish press or other sources.

Example of where this opinion comes from is, major interventions are having to be made at the 11th hour from statements being aired that would undermine GCs position on Cyprus by various bodies and persons. Objecting to dialogue with TRNC in situation where humanitarian issues are involved such as docking of ships in Famagusta at time of crisis, bird-flu, education, sports, crime and medicine earns no plaudits.

Again, I'd like to see evidence of this. I'd have thought the Cypriot government would be using such opportunities to explain to the international community in the strongest possible terms the reasons why dialogue and cooperation with the secessionist entity was being discouraged.

Over time awareness changes as TCs have finally started filling the void of mis-information.

Cyprus in the EU means it has every opportunity to put its case forward at every opportunity, and in ways the EU understands, focusing always on its founding principles.

All this does is take the edge off, Cyprus in EU means that block will keep pressure on TRNC & Turkey, no recognition, but that'll pretty much be it. Some compromises will be forthcoming, if not via the EU then elsewhere, it is inevitable - so long as the dialogue continues and TCs show they genuinely want to work towards a solution.

We will see. But without evidence I see this only as wishful thinking on your part at present.

RoC pushes too hard - I find it deeply disturbing - others do to.

Who?

Rarely in politics is it good to have the reputation RoC is getting for itself in the EU circles - unless you are happy to be used.

I am not aware of this reputation. Please provide some evidence. Any other EU country in Cyprus's position would behave in exactly the same way.

Naturally people seek adventure and opportunity. How long will GCs wait to access Turkish ports for the oil that can be transported for a profit, or Varosha, just sitting there, what developer worth his/her salt has not figured how they could transform it into a tourist's paradise with the tills ringing in cash by the second...

The original owners of land being developed may have something to say about that.

End of isolation is a reward in itself. After seeing no-one shouting uncle at the pressures being bought to bear and no stick of EU membership, time to revise what to do next - adventure and opportunity in the status quo.

Not sure there is any real substance to any of the above.

[Acikgoz]

Based on my experience, inferred from my readings, viewed from my perspective, it's my opinion. Like a*holes we all have them. That's just how I see it.

[Expatkiwi]

Alternative option:
1) Talks collapse
2) Azerbaijan & Pakistan recognize TRNC out of solidarity.
3) Taiwan recognizes TRNC in order to maintain a European diplomatic toehold.
4) These few countries start opening up trade/commercial/sporting links with TRNC
5) After a few years, other countries will slowly follow suit.

[Malapapa]

Based on my experience, inferred from my readings, viewed from my perspective, it's my opinion. Like a*holes we all have them. That's just how I see it.

Fair enough. But you're more likely to convince me and others of the validity of your perspective by providing some evidence from objective sources. Perhaps what you say has some substance but without any evidence it's impossible to make a judgement.

[Malapapa]

Alternative option:
1) Talks collapse
2) Azerbaijan & Pakistan recognize TRNC out of solidarity.
3) Taiwan recognizes TRNC in order to maintain a European diplomatic toehold.
4) These few countries start opening up trade/commercial/sporting links with TRNC
5) After a few years, other countries will slowly follow suit.

Are you advocating this as an option for the TCs?

[Expatkiwi]

Are you advocating this as an option for the TCs?

No. It's a possibility should the talks collapse and its perceived as a failure on the GC's part. Pakaistan opposed the UNSC resolutions invalidating the UDI, and Azerbaijan is openly sympathetic to the TRNC. Given the precdents of Kosovo, South Ossetia, and Abkhazia, they would be looking for an excuse to recognize TRNC. Taiwan is in danger of losing its last diplomatic foothold in Europe (Holy See), and given that China has reiterated that it will never support the TRNC, Taiwan and TRNC really would have nothing to lose.

[CopperLine]

Turkey/’TRNC’ cannot.

says who? EU support of public is all time low. Government made it clear KKTC is more important than membership talks. Status quo can go on another 135 years.

That's a nice grandstanding when Turkey has nothing to lose at this point, because Turkey needs to reform before she can even become a EU member. Cyprus is the last obstacle in her way, but if Turkey were to be serious about becoming a EU member and that the EU gave them the green light, then lets see Turkey make the same statement. I doubt it very much. Why would Turkey go through all the reform changes in Turkey to become a EU member if they are going to say in the end, "err, sorry EU, we rather keep northern part of Cyprus than become a full member".! Not likely.!

Kikapu you asked,Why would Turkey go through all the reform changes in Turkey to become a EU member if they are going to say in the end, "err, sorry EU, we rather keep northern part of Cyprus than become a full member".! There are two parts to the response : first, EU candidacy status was given at Helsinki under the predecessors to AKP (ironically, to Ecevit) so the AKP inherited candidate status over which their initial enthusiasm has waned. So there are many reforms made in the early/mid years of this decade which have now turned into a go-slow. The AKP has changed its mind about Europe.
Second, I don't think that it is an either-or in the AKP's view. If they see northern Cyprus as a bargaining chip then they're increasingly realising that EU accession is not a game in which they want to play this particular chip. Popular support in Turkey for the EU is at an all time low, and the AKP has lost any 'enthusiasm' that it had for the EU. (I fear that those concerned with Cyprus who think that EU accession was key to Turkey and therefore open to leverage on this issue have missed the boat).

[Malapapa]

Are you advocating this as an option for the TCs?

No. It's a possibility should the talks collapse and its perceived as a failure on the GC's part. Pakaistan opposed the UNSC resolutions invalidating the UDI, and Azerbaijan is openly sympathetic to the TRNC. Given the precdents of Kosovo, South Ossetia, and Abkhazia, they would be looking for an excuse to recognize TRNC. Taiwan is in danger of losing its last diplomatic foothold in Europe (Holy See), and given that China has reiterated that it will never support the TRNC, Taiwan and TRNC really would have nothing to lose.

So if you're not advocating this option, which option do you advocate?

[Viewpoint]

Turkey/’TRNC’ cannot.

says who? EU support of public is all time low. Government made it clear KKTC is more important than membership talks. Status quo can go on another 135 years.

That's a nice grandstanding when Turkey has nothing to lose at this point, because Turkey needs to reform before she can even become a EU member. Cyprus is the last obstacle in her way, but if Turkey were to be serious about becoming a EU member and that the EU gave them the green light, then lets see Turkey make the same statement. I doubt it very much. Why would Turkey go through all the reform changes in Turkey to become a EU member if they are going to say in the end, "err, sorry EU, we rather keep northern part of Cyprus than become a full member".! Not likely.!

What reform are you taking about?