Cyprus-Forum.com

[DigenisAkritas]

Now, what it says in the koran or the bible is irrelevent,

Hardly, why do you think people set off bombs after they go to Madrassahs in Pakistan? Do you think it's because they met Osama Bin Laden and he brainwashed them? That's ludicrous, there is no monolithic 'Al Qaeda', it's just a bunch of Muslims who decide to learn all they can about Islam, they then divide into two categories - Those who don't accept what it says (ie. The Violence, the Intolerance, the Mysogyny et al), and those who do, those who do accept what the Koran says are dangerous, those who are 'passive muslims', i.e, those whose only knowledge of Islam is praying 5 times a day and fasting are harmless, they tend to be good people. But those who are TRUE muslims are BAD humans.

Yes sure, thousands of young men and women held candle-lit vigil and prayed for the American dead, especially in Iran and in some other Islamic countries. But remember that these spontaneous outbursts of commiseration had nothing to do with Islam. These people were moved by their own humanity. Islam does not allow Muslims to pray for non-Muslims. Muhammad did not even pray for his own uncle Abu Talib, the man who raised him like his own son, because he refused to submit to his call on his deathbed. He walked out of the room muttering, "I wanted to pray for him but Allah forbade it". Oh Really? Is Allah also a psychopath? You can’t credit Islam for the inherent goodness of nominal Muslims who through their ignorance of Islam still love all mankind and are capable of crying and praying for non-Muslims. The majority of Iranians are no longer Muslims. Those who are Muslims were just as jubilant for the death of the Americans in 9/11 as were the Palestinians and other Muslims all over the world. In fact those who held the candle-lit vigil were beaten by the Islamic thugs. Islam robs mankind from its humanity.

Muslims are not going to integrate. They are not going to adopt Western cultures and values. On the contrary, they want to destroy the democracies and establish their own barbaric way of life by force. If the Europeans think Muslim immigrants will one day work to pay for their pensions, they are in for a nasty surprise. Muslims can only receive but they will not give back. To give back is un-Islamic. It is not in their ethos. It is not in their character. The whole concept of dhimmitude is that non-Muslims become tributaries to Muslims and not the other way round. Today, a great number of Muslims in European countries are maintained by the government. Muslims see this as their right. It is the Jizyah that the non-Muslims are supposed to pay. They will never return the favor.

[bg_turk]

Greece invaded Aegean Macedonia, Western Thrace, Crete, and attempted to invade Cyprus, during which process she ethnically cleansed all non-greeks from all of these lands, with the exception of a tiny turkish minority in western thrace. Even now Greece has territorial claims towards Souther Albania (northern epirus) as recent remarks of the greek president show, and had territorial claims to Izmir(smyrna) and istambul(constantinople) lands where greeks are a minotiry and YOU STILL DENY THAT GREECE IS EXPANSIONIST.

On the other hand Turkey has continously lost territory for the last 100 years at least. 5 million turks had to emigrate back to turkey during the first balkan war out of their ancestral lands, and the country was flooded with european refugees from the Balkans. Turkey has not even annexed northern cyprus, which declared itself as an independent state, not part of turkey.

THUS YOUR CLAIMS ARE ABSURD of Turkey being epxansionist and Greece not !!! Facts show Greece is the most successfully expansionist country in the Balkans which has stolen land from all of its neighbouring countries.

And please do not lecture me about bulgarian oppression during ottoman times. I have had to study that in history classes. Yet even during the Ottoman times, the Bulgarians had to fight against the greek church, and the bulgarian liberation movement was directed as much against the greeks (for their own independent church) as against the ottomans (for an independent state).

[metecyp]

Turks are the expansionists. If they were not, they should have stayed up in Mongolia, and never come to steal what others have created.

So what Turks are the expnasionists? Is there anything wrong with that? Is that a bad thing? If so, why don't you blame the British for what happenned to Native Americans in the US? Or why don't you blame the French for Canada? Or Portugese and Spanish for South America?? History if full of expansionism of certain nations against others...It's losers like you who complain about it though.

[DigenisAkritas]

Bulgarians have lived in Solun since the very creation of the Bulgarian state. Bulgarians have as much "right" to own that city which has been ethnically cleansed of them, as greek cypriots have a right to own and control northern cyprus. Western Thrace was a recognized bulgarian terriotry, but was forcefully and violently annexed by Greece after the first world war. In this respect Greece is no less agressor than any other.

And I still stand by my claim that Greece in the Balkans is the only country that has continously expanded since its liberation from the ottoman empire unless you disprove my claim. All other countries including Bulgaria, Serbia and Turkey have lost land. Apparently you guys believe you have more rights than others.

Turkey was founded on expansionalism, Turkey is the last Imperialist Empire on Earth, its full of Ethnic Groups that hate each other, and for good reason too.

[DigenisAkritas]

Greece never existed as a single unitary state at the time when Ottomans came. It was part of the Byzantine empire, which albeit dominated by greeks, inheritted the Eastern Roman Empire and did not only control greek territories, it controlled slavic, arabic, albanian territories, and brutally taxed and opressed the non-greeks.

Isn't Jizyah the subsidization of Muslims at the expense of Non-Muslims?

Byzantium enslaved Bulgaria for more than two centuries. This empire commited acts of horrific savagery, you even had an emperor who was called a "Bulgarian Killer".

Emperor Vasilis II, yes, a very good Emperor.

So stop acting like you were very civilised and build nice towns. You conquered these many of these towns!

No, Minor Asia is Greek, all of the cities on the Western coast and to some extent quite far East are Greek.

Ancient Greece, to which you claim you are ancestors, was not a single unitary state either, it consisted of many stateslets, which even fought against each other (sparta and athens).

Read Herodotus's 'The Histories' for a greater understanding, as I stated, Athenians would regard Spartans as 'not as civilized', but there was still a concept of a 'Greek World', The Word 'Hellas' - was referred to throughout the works of Plato, Aristotle, Polybius, Herodotus and many many others as was the idea of 'Hellenic Unity', the principle on which the Delian League was founded. As I stated, in Ancient Times, as Aristotle said, 'Everything revolves around the City (Polis)'. For example, Rome 'pacified' the South of Italy and considered the other Latins to be not worthy of instantaenous Roman Citizenship, far more uncivilized than themselves, but there was still an idea of 'Latin Unity', this is why the 'Latin League' was set up. You are demonstrating a complete misunderstanding of the basis of Ancient History, and that of Modern History, effectively, that Modern Nation States are, as the name suggests, modern Inventions, and ergo, the foundation on which a Modern Nation State is built usually has and Ancient or Medieval groundwork.

[Yiannis]

Greece never existed as a single unitary state at the time when Ottomans came. It was part of the Byzantine empire, which albeit dominated by greeks, inheritted the Eastern Roman Empire and did not only control greek territories, it controlled slavic, arabic, albanian territories, and brutally taxed and opressed the non-greeks. Byzantium enslaved Bulgaria for more than two centuries. This empire commited acts of horrific savagery, you even had an emperor who was called a "Bulgarian Killer". So stop acting like you were very civilised and build nice towns. You conquered these many of these towns!

Indeed very true bg_turk.Byzantine era was the worst point in the Hellenes history and since that time greeks have nothing valuable to show to the world except churches. Its also sad that they tried destroying the most valuable ancient cities in the name of god

[MicAtCyp]

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.

Oh no, please not from wikipedia again!!! This is a sort of a forum anyone can add nonsense.

Well, to save time: The Megali Idea is the dream of the Greeks to take Constantinoupolis back!

[Piratis]

Greece invaded Aegean Macedonia, Western Thrace, Crete, and attempted to invade Cyprus, during which process she ethnically cleansed all non-greeks from all of these lands, with the exception of a tiny turkish minority in western thrace.

What???? Dude, the places you say have a Greek history of many thousand years.
Cyprus in particular has a Greek population for 3500 years and the 82% wanted to be part of Greece. This is expansionism of Greece by your standards? This is liberation my friend from those that ruled Cyprus against the will of the great majority of its people.
According to your logic even the creation of the Greek state was expansionism because Greek territories were liberated from the Ottomans!!

And please do not lecture me about bulgarian oppression during ottoman times. I have had to study that in history classes.

So did my Bulgarian friends. They told me that especially the recent years they changed their history books in order to please the Turkish minority. This is a good thing for Bulgaria of course and the right thing to do, however don't think that what you are reading in your hisotry books is nothing but the truth.

[erolz]

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.

Oh no, please not from wikipedia again!!! This is a sort of a forum anyone can add nonsense.

What do you have against the wikipedia. It is a wonderful project and utilisation of the internet that does not represent 'anyones nonsense' but actualy represent the wisdom of the many whilst still allowing for alternative view of the less many and few. Now if that had been invented by a modern Greek (and maybe it was? anyway whoever cam up with the concept I say 'nuff respect')

Well, to save time: The Megali Idea is the dream of the Greeks to take Constantinoupolis back!

A somewhat abridged version If anyone is interested in a more detailed exploration of the mengali idea and it's impact on GC and thus on all Cypriots I thoroughly recommend Dr. Zenon Stavrinides book "The Cyprus Conflict: National Identity and Statehood". An extract from this book can be found here but unfortuantely it is not the section dealing with the mengali idea.

http://www.cyprus-conflict.net/zenon,%201963-74.htm

[insan]

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.

Oh no, please not from wikipedia again!!! This is a sort of a forum anyone can add nonsense.

Well, to save time: The Megali Idea is the dream of the Greeks to take Constantinoupolis back!

Why don't you create a website called MicAtCypidia that tell us the ultimate truth.