Cyprus-Forum.com

[magikthrill]

We are willing to give back some land for some political equality as proved by our consent to the Annan plan.

if you think that the Annan Plan gave the TCs "some" political equality then you have either a) not read it or b) bsing me right now. the A plan gave FULL political equality to TCs to the extent of a confederation and i belive you are aware of this. however, the A-Plan gave notihng close to full right of return.

Are we prepared to give back ALL land that was GC pre 74, with all the 'pain' of that falling only on TC (that are not soley to blame for it) in return for some political equality? No I do not believe we are prepared to do that.

i have repeated many times that , since there were also TC refugees that were uprooted first, then TC refugees (assuming around 25,000) should be offered first the right to return. if they choose not to for whatever reaosn then 25,000 GC refugees will not be able to return and this will be the fault of the then GC administration, not Turkey, which is fair.

After these 25,000 refugeess then all others should have the right to return to their ancestral homes in return for the political equality TCs request.

[fi]

I think the political issue (governemnt etc) is not one of the vital issues of the GC side.

I think the ROC would be very flexible in giving some autonomy to TC and extended political rights. The key issues are those of:

1) the refugees and that all refugees must have a right to return (that the Anan plan refused),
2) of property; that of course all property must be returned to its rightful owners (Anan plan didn't actually do)
3) that all illegal settlers must leave Cyprus (Anan plan again failed)
4) Turkish troups must leave Cyprus (Anan plan failed horribly here)

pretty resonable and fair don't you think?

GC are not power hungry they just want what is right for both sides.

ps: I think if you put Enosis on the vote (without any reprecusions) a huge majority will vote NO to Enosis now. Cyprus has lived independent for 45 years now and it's doing pretty good on its own.

[erolz]

i have repeated many times that , since there were also TC refugees that were uprooted first, then TC refugees (assuming around 25,000) should be offered first the right to return. if they choose not to for whatever reaosn then 25,000 GC refugees will not be able to return and this will be the fault of the then GC administration, not Turkey, which is fair.

I quite like this idea (with some reservations) and am sorry for not having noticed it before as you have apparently repeated it many times in the past.

However how do you determine which 25,000 GC refugess would lose thier right to return and which would not out of the total number of such GC refugees?

[fi]

This whole idea seems ridiculous to me. I'm allowed to move freely in all of the EU but not allowed to move and relocate freely in my own country!!!!

These are old world ideas.

[erolz]

I think the political issue (governemnt etc) is not one of the vital issues of the GC side.

I think the ROC would be very flexible in giving some autonomy to TC and extended political rights. The key issues are those of:

Why then do you think the RoC has such a diametricaly opposed position today that the one it (GC community) had prior to 74, where clearly the issue of the amount of equality between the two communites agreed in the 60s consitituion was the core issue for them and before there were any issues of GC lost land?

[magikthrill]

I quite like this idea (with some reservations) and am sorry for not having noticed it before as you have apparently repeated it many times in the past.

However how do you determine which 25,000 GC refugess would lose thier right to return and which would not out of the total number of such GC refugees?

i have thought different ways. for example

a) those whose properties are occupied by non cypriot citizens from pre-74 status will not be prat of the potential 25,000
b) those whose properties have been sold to foreigners will not be prat of the potential 25,000
b) those whose propreties have been utilized and been invested in WILL be part of the potential 25,000
c) those who live in TC properties in the south and have incested in these prperties WILL be part of the potential 25,000

finally if these numbers of (c) and (d) do not aount to 25,000 then an area in which the remaining refugees is occupied by a large TC population (say Kyrenia) then these refugees will be part of the potential 25,000 as well

does this make sense and does it sound fair to you?

[fi]

I don't think it was a core issue in the 60s and definetely not of such high priority. It only became an issue due to the boycot by TCs to vote the budget and the subsequent paralization of the state.

And I'm only expressing my opinion and what I see and hear around me and that is what I'm passing on. If a solution in those lines is brought I gurantee you that it will be accepted with fanfare.

The paranoia expressed by the TC that the GC want to govern their lives is unbased.

[faruk]

faruk, since you read so many books have you read any books about the centuries of oppression that you caused to us? Or you read only the lines that suit you?

Cyprus, with an 82% Greek population should have been given to Greece by the British from the 1930s after a democratic referendum. Not a drop of blood needed to be shed.

The fact is that you oppressed us for centuries, then the British oppressed us again (and you were their buddies), and then when all these others were ruling Cyprus for centuries, the crime of the 82% of the population was that it wanted to decide for once the future of this island?

So after your crimes of centuries, after the occupation of 3 decades, you come to accuse us because for a tiny part of our history we tried to determine ourselves the future of an island where we are the 82%?
And by ignoring the rest of history you come to declare us as the guilty ones, and you as the virgin Maries that now have to be rewarded on our loss by taking away our properties and legalizing the ethnic cleansing that you performed against us?

1. In opression times of Ottoman which you emphasised Turks, unlike the Latins, imposed no rituals, launched no anathemas against the Orthodox people. Pope and bishop were left alone; to build as many churches as they liked, to have complete freedom of religion. Is this the Ottoman opression and the other fact is that we can shift this subject alongside centuries and we can talk about Byzantine or Roman or Egypt or Persian period. So no need to shift the subject to another line.

2. I suggest you to get a holiday and take papadoc with you because-maybe you did not relaize- both your minds gives alert critically. your own is talking about the percentage of the population that TC consists %20 of it. So, TC with %20 apllied ethnic cleansing over GC which consisted %80. Nevertheless, GC had Greek Cypriot National Guard and Irregular Groups and proffessional disciplined killers.

3. I remember you said in another post that EOKA was an organisation which tried to liberate the Island and now you point the main fact maybe unwillingly with saying the Island must have given to GREECE after 1930. It shows the aspiration that is cherished in the heart of GCs, ENOSIS same as EOKA. Besides you can not liberate the Island uniting it with another country.

[erolz]

does this make sense and does it sound fair to you?

I can't get my head round it right now. Give me some time to come back and look at it when my head is more settled. If I forget please feel fre to rmeind me (by pm pref).

[faruk]

Faruk,

May I just inform you that I don't reply to monologues. I read half the book you wrote, then threw the rest in the dustbin.So just to save you time, I advice you to reply specifically to quoted parts. I can quote your book and write another book totally irrelevant in this forum. You know what? Waste of time.

This is a discussion forum, a forum for vivid dialogue, not a 2 hour monologue time for propagandists that would turn everybody asleep!

Oh, by the way I see too many people sleeping already. Poor people couldn’t manage reading your whole book..Sweet dreams guys!

Continue like that for eternity faruk.
zzzzzzzz, zzzzzzzz, zzzzzzzzz,zzzzzzzz,zzzzzzzzz, zzzzzzzz, zzzzzzzzzzzzzz,zzzzzzzzzzzz..........Aaaa plia plia............. zzzzzzzz, zzzzzzzz, zzzzzzzzz,zzzzzzzz,zzzzzzzzz, zzzzzzzz, zzzzzzzzzzzzzz,zzzzzzzzzzzz..........

sorry for you