Cyprus-Forum.com

[paliometoxo]

XPAT i think you where being rather generous with your 25%?!?! since when did the tcs make up 25% of the population?!?! if there is going to be partition in ANY form i would condier 18% no more no less... i would actually personally consider 18%.. since its the amount of tcs there where...

drop the boarders to 18% i think some would find it more acceptable

[Oracle]

... If we have in Cyprus what they have in all other Federations the result will be 2 GC states, which will then vote to unite and become a unitary state. So I would accept a normal Federation for Cyprus.

Brilliant. I never saw it like that.

[Expatkiwi]

XPAT i think you where being rather generous with your 25%?!?! since when did the tcs make up 25% of the population?!?! if there is going to be partition in ANY form i would condier 18% no more no less... i would actually personally consider 18%.. since its the amount of tcs there where...

drop the boarders to 18% i think some would find it more acceptable

The 25% mark was stated on the basis of the most often quoted top end non-GC figure of land ownership percentages pre-1963. I know that GC sources quote approx. 18% and the top-end quoted TC figure was 31% (which I got a lot of flak for when I quoted it), so the mean figure between the two is around 25%. You must also take into account that the percentage of arable land in the north (can't plant in mountains very well) takes the useful figure down to about the 18% mark...

[Tony-4497]

If GCs became convinced that a fair and viable federal solution cannot be found (even in the long term) and that the only federal option available is something along the lines of the Annan Plan, then they would consider a confederation, provided sufficient land is returned.

Confederation, as opposed to 2 completely separate states, would be necessary to ensure that there is long-term enforcability of de-militarisation (which suits Turkey) and a ban on the inflow of Turkish settlers (which suits GCs). There would also need to be cast-iron implementation and ongoing guarantees - first the land is put in UN control (i.e. in escrow), then recognition of the two con-federal sovereign states takes place.

The land to be returned would need to be enough to make this option more attractive than the alternative for GCs, which is to keep the status quo and hope to "win" in the very long-term through mass legal action against Turkey, blocking its EU accession path and even a shift in strategic balances in the region.

My feeling is that around 22% of land, with a similar % of coastline would be low enough to secure a Yes in the GC side.

[Tony-4497]

You must also take into account that the percentage of arable land in the north (can't plant in mountains very well) takes the useful figure down to about the 18% mark...

You don't seem to be very familiar with Cyprus real estate matters..

In Limassol, a beachfront plot of say 1000 sq meters sells for anywhere between Euro 2 million and 5 million. The same plot of "arable land" sells for around Euro 5 thousand.

Accordingly, the key issue is coastline - the Annan plan (supported by some GCs here) gave some 60% of Cyprus coastline to the 18% TCs.

[Lit]

First of all, none of those federations was created by means of foreign invasion and ethnic cleansing. The north part of Cyprus (just like all other parts) belongs mostly to us, who we are the 80%+ majority, not to the TCs, who are a minority in all parts of the island. You seek to legalize the claim of the TCs over the north but you have failed to do so.

Secondly, Switzerland is a confederation.

Thirdly, in all federations people can settle anywhere they want and became residents of any state they want enjoying their full human rights, such as the right for property. There is no discrimination based on ethnicity, which is of course something racist. If we have in Cyprus what they have in all other Federations the result will be 2 GC states, which will then vote to unite and become a unitary state. So I would accept a normal Federation for Cyprus.

Excellent points as always, Piratis. Well said my friend. I living in the States may choose to live and work in any State my heart desires....i am allowed to travel and live freely anywhere i so choose and i am not hindered in doing so because of my ethnicity. I dont believe the Greek Cypriots are asking for much here. These so called TC moderates in this forum do not really appear to be moderate at all and quite honestly i am sick and tired of them saying one thing and then doing something entirely different. Do the TCs want to live amongst us...yes or no? Stop this good cop bad cop routine....its getting old. When will the Greek Cypriots be allowed to live in their own country anywhere they so please? Why are we treated so differently? This is our country as well! Would the TCs like to be apart of it? Make your minds up already.

[Bananiot]

Well, its either BBF or partition and the country in which you reside Tony is instrumental in the consolidation of this dilemma we are faced with. Like you, the Americans do not mince their words.

Piratis has spilled the beans though, hasn't he? Read his last two lines and you will see what he wants to do to Cyprus and at the same time you can understand how and why we have reached that far. That is exactly the mentality that destroyed Cyprus.

[paliometoxo]

faousa!! men laleis malakies re bananiot..

bbf or partition imishi mou! you talk like a turk.

neither will happen its just a dream of turkeys

[Get Real!]

Well, its either BBF or partition...

No it’s not, and you cannot prove otherwise. Christofias, is desperate because he has failed miserably and his chances of reelection are next to zero.

[Tony-4497]

President Christofias (the democratically elected president, Piratis) spelled it out on Saturday and he couldn't have been more explicit. Speaking at the 16th Congress of EDON he said:

The dilemma is clear. Either we solve the Cyprus issue on the basis of BBF or partition. Those that question BBF and look for the desirable are working for partition. He reminded that BBF was supported by a number of UN resolutions as well as by the EU and other international institutions.

Christofias has also promised to the Cyprus people pre-election that if he brings a solution to referendum then this will be substantially different to the Annan Plan, which was rejected by 76%. He also made specific commitments in writing to the parties that gave him the presidency regarding many aspects of the solution.

The big question is what are those substantial improvements that Christofias CAN achieve, under his current strategy, that will make the new BBF substantially better than the Annan BBF. Do you believe that Christofias has achieved any such improvements or is likely to do so if he continues with this strategy? If not, is he perhaps trying to cheat and blackmail GCs into accepting a solution they clearly reject?

In my view, the fastest and most certain route to partition is for Christofias to put forward a plan which is unacceptable to GCs and hence subsequently rejected at referendum - a second No would put the RoC in major trouble. And in such a case, Christofias and Anastasiades will be held responsible for whatever happens.