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BBF or PARTITION

How can we solve it? (keep it civilized)

Postby Piratis » Sun Jan 03, 2010 5:46 pm

Viewpoint wrote:
Piratis wrote:
Viewpoint wrote:At last the GCs have finally been told what the real options are so they can now stop farting around thinking they can go back a unitary state, time to understand that Cyprus has chnaged forever and that its a partnership that is on offer or partition no other choices. Hard pill to swallow but it has to be done, reality always wins over illusion.


We have no illusions VP. Partition is what we have for the last 35 years. We will continue to keep the 100% of recognition of Cyprus and we will continue to prosper, and you can keep the partition, which will remain illegal, and continue to suffer the consequences. It is time that you also stop farting and see this reality and stop having illusions about recognition and legalization of your illegalities.


Partition we have you are correct and recognition of this partition is indexed now to finding a solution with no agreement the EU and the world will not stand around and keep the north isolated forever, steps to ease restrictions in the north will follow whether you like it or not. So its time you realized that entering the EU will eventually will no mutually agreed solution in the future backfire in your faces as the EU will not tolerate a divided island tarnishing EU unity.


:lol: Keep dreaming. The EU is happy to keep ALL Turks out. Make no mistake about this.
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Postby Kikapu » Sun Jan 03, 2010 6:09 pm

Christofias said:

As he noted, the dilemma is clear: “it is either a federal solution or partition”, pointing out that ''the bi-zonal, bi-communal federation has been adopted by the United Nations, the European Union and other international organizations.


I think Bananiot, VP, and YFred are reading too much into what Christofias has said to mean anything but the continuation of the status quo "partition" as the case is now, if BBF based on True Federation can't be agreed on by all sides. It does NOT mean, that permanent partition with recognition is what will happen if the BBF is not agreed on, because if that were to be the case, why on earth would the north agree to a BBF based on UN and EU Principles, when magically the north would become an recognised independent state as soon as BBF is turned down by either side, most certainly by the north if it's not what AP offered as a BBF, which was partition along with everything Turkey wanted to be able to infiltrate the EU workings through the north confederated state. I can see VP and YFred getting too excited in their own wishful thinking interpretation on what Christofias meant since they are the NeoParitionist , but Bananiot, who claims to be anti partition based on his signature, I'm surprised he too believed that Christofias meant partition partition.

I think Christofias's massage was more to the TCs than to the GCs, that "partition" will continue (the status quo) if you do not agree to BBF based on True Democracy and the EU Principles. You will therefore will continue being isolated therefore your future is in your hands to agree to a solution based on principles shared by the west and the EU in particular. How can the RoC go against all those principles set by the EU even if he wanted. He can't, so the message to the TCs is, is for them to face the reality on what a settlement can look like, otherwise the status quo will continue, which to the RoC is the best solution short of BBF based on the EU principles..

Sorry to disappoint all those waiting for the partition partiton to happen if BBF is not agreed to, based on the principles mentioned above, but it will not happen, because partitioned north out of the EU is no good to Turkey’s interest and the RoC knows this full well. Turkey needs a "Trojan Horse" in the EU, and the north would have been such a vehicle had the AP was agreed on. It is the only way for Turkey to have any influence on the EU to make the EU to accept Turkey on her own terms by using the north to blackmailing the EU, because as things stand right now, Armenia will become an EU member way before Turkey can start opening or closing any of the chapters that has been suspended at the moment. Turkey will NEVER allow the north to become an independent state outside a confederation partnership with the RoC as the case would have been with the Annan Plan. This is the only option left for Turkey to become an EU member by using the north to get what she wants, short of Turkey becoming a True Democracy.

In short, even if some countries would lift some of the embargoes to the north, all that would do is to ease the financial burden on Turkey for keeping the north afloat. It will NOT mean the north will become an independent state with recognition or an economics powerhouse. It is just not in the books and people like VP and YFred should stop believing in the impossible. The only viable future I see for the true TCs in the north is to agree on a BBF based on True Federation much like the one I have proposed. Anything else is just a pipe dream.!


Kikapu's "BBF" Power Sharing Plan.!
http://www.cyprus-forum.com/viewtopic.php?t=21685
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Postby Expatkiwi » Sun Jan 03, 2010 6:14 pm

Kikapu wrote:In short, even if some countries would lift some of the embargoes to the north, all that would do is to ease the financial burden on Turkey for keeping the north afloat. It will NOT mean the north will become an independent state with recognition or an economics powerhouse. It is just not in the books and people like VP and YFred should stop believing in the impossible. The only viable future I see for the true TCs in the north is to agree on a BBF based on True Federation much like the one I have proposed. Anything else is just a pipe dream.!


That is a scary scenario. Just scary enough to be true. TRNC being truly independent is my preference, as you well know, but given the current infrastructure of the TRNC, without improvement beyond it's agricultural and tourism economy, it will be just like the Republic of Nauru: fully dependent upon handouts. No wonder it took the bribe from Russia to recognize South Ossetia and Abkhazia.
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Postby CopperLine » Sun Jan 03, 2010 6:17 pm

If Turkey does not enter the EU then a settled reunification of Cyprus is highly unlikely, and continued de facto partition will continue indefinitely with attendant collapse of a distinct TC community.

[b]If
Turkey does enter the EU then a negotiated BBF, subject to details, is possible.[/b]

But the EU membership of Turkey is, even on the most optimistic of estimates of the keenest supporters, still seven to ten years away. Therefore unless the current BBF negotiations are pushed, irrespective of Turkey's EU membership ambitions, then effective partition remains the most likely forseeable scenario. This suits GC nationalists and Turkish nationalists, since they are two sides of the same debased coin.

For those of us who want a negotiated settlement to be secured sooner rather than later then there is only one game in town : a variant of BBF arising, roughly speaking, from Annan.

I agree with those who say that the devil is in the detail of BBF but, top extend that metaphor, Lucifer lies in the outright rejection of BBF.
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Postby Expatkiwi » Sun Jan 03, 2010 6:40 pm

CopperLine wrote:If Turkey does not enter the EU then a settled reunification of Cyprus is highly unlikely, and continued de facto partition will continue indefinitely with attendant collapse of a distinct TC community.

[b]If
Turkey does enter the EU then a negotiated BBF, subject to details, is possible.[/b]

But the EU membership of Turkey is, even on the most optimistic of estimates of the keenest supporters, still seven to ten years away. Therefore unless the current BBF negotiations are pushed, irrespective of Turkey's EU membership ambitions, then effective partition remains the most likely forseeable scenario. This suits GC nationalists and Turkish nationalists, since they are two sides of the same debased coin.

For those of us who want a negotiated settlement to be secured sooner rather than later then there is only one game in town : a variant of BBF arising, roughly speaking, from Annan.

I agree with those who say that the devil is in the detail of BBF but, top extend that metaphor, Lucifer lies in the outright rejection of BBF.


There's also the distinct possibility that if the collapse of the talks is blamed on the GC side, then de facto partition may end up being recognized as de jure partition by various countries fed up with the situation.
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Re: BBF or PARTITION

Postby Get Real! » Sun Jan 03, 2010 7:58 pm

Bananiot wrote:President Christofias (the democratically elected president, Piratis) spelled it out on Saturday and he couldn't have been more explicit. Speaking at the 16th Congress of EDON he said:

The dilemma is clear. Either we solve the Cyprus issue on the basis of BBF or partition. Those that question BBF and look for the desirable are working for partition. He reminded that BBF was supported by a number of UN resolutions as well as by the EU and other international institutions.

Why don't you or that communist clown Christofias, explain to us how this "partition" will come about because we ALREADY have physical partition!

Is Christofias, threatening the people of Cyprus that he will sign away the occupied territory of Cyprus under the IV Geneva Convention out of spite because he and his government have failed miserably in the negotiations?

3. ' Agreement concluded between the authorities of the occupied territory and the Occupying Power '

"Agreements concluded with the authorities of the occupied territory represent a more subtle means by which the Occupying Power may try to free itself from the obligations incumbent on it under occupation law; the possibility of concluding such agreements is therefore strictly limited by Article 7, paragraph 1"


http://www.icrc.org/ihl.nsf/1a13044f3bb ... enDocument


Or is Christofias, threatening the people of Cyprus that he will formally recognize the occupied territory known as the “TRNC”, in contravention of UN Resolution 541 (1983) so that other nations may also follow?

http://www.un.int/cyprus/scr541.htm


Which of these two methods of high treason is Christofias threatening the people of Cyprus with?

Its high time he explained himself!
Last edited by Get Real! on Sun Jan 03, 2010 8:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: BBF or PARTITION

Postby Expatkiwi » Sun Jan 03, 2010 8:00 pm

Get Real! wrote:Which of these two methods of high treason is Christofias threatening the people of Cyprus with?

It high time he explained himself!


Sounds to me like Mr. Christofas is starting to become pragmatic in his thinking...
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Re: BBF or PARTITION

Postby Get Real! » Sun Jan 03, 2010 8:02 pm

Expatkiwi wrote:
Get Real! wrote:Which of these two methods of high treason is Christofias threatening the people of Cyprus with?

It high time he explained himself!


Sounds to me like Mr. Christofas is starting to become pragmatic in his thinking...

What on earth are you saying? That high treason is "pragmatic???
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Postby YFred » Sun Jan 03, 2010 8:21 pm

Paphitis wrote:
YFred wrote:
Paphitis wrote:
YFred wrote:
Paphitis wrote:He does not seem to realise that the true meaning can only be found in the details of what exactly this BBF entails, and since I don't see any details, how on earth are we to make any judgement as to whether this BBF mentioned above is acceptable or not? :roll:

It's all in the details, so perhaps Bananiot can give us these details on what exactly this BBF entails! :?

Does the President and his advisors not understood it either?
Do they not see that there is no difference between BBF as negotiated and Partition like you and the rest of the bash patriots can.
Are they that stupid or are they just pretending?
What was TPapa doing when negotiating the agreement if he thought it would lead to partition?
Partitoin is what you are going to get if these negotiations fail by April, and it will be as is.
You can cry as much as you like after.



We've heard it all before I'm afraid..........Image

Good. They you will not be surprised when it kicks you up the ass after April.


First you said it will kick us up the arse by November, then November became December. then December became February, and February became April.... :lol: :lol:

How about you just forget about your wet dreams and get a grip of reality, because recognition is an impossible dream that will always be beyond your reach!

Go to sleep dick head! :D

Dipstick, read the posts carefully. Its 12 months from December. International community does not work that fast. December the wheels should have been in motion for an agreement and a vote by April. Now that that is unlikely, then The work in the background begins. Mark your diary. 12 months from December 09.
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Postby eracles » Sun Jan 03, 2010 8:47 pm

Expatkiwi wrote:There's also the distinct possibility that if the collapse of the talks is blamed on the GC side, then de facto partition may end up being recognized as de jure partition by various countries fed up with the situation.


Turkey and Turkish Cypriots Top 3 preferences for the Cyprus problem
(and strategy in the negotiations, possibly egged on by Miliband)

1. The above
2. The above
3. The above
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