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Kyprianou and Denktash in AGREEMENT?

How can we solve it? (keep it civilized)

Postby bill cobbett » Sat Jan 02, 2010 1:00 pm

observer wrote:
Oracle wrote:Many politicians aired their views in the tides of time; some were elected to do so, some not. But, we are in the EU now and we have a chance to continue the full democratisation, and bid for the freedom, of our sovereign country.


Many politicians (in fact I think all senior EU politicians plus the UN leadership) urged GCs to adopt the Anan Plan in the run up to the 2004 EU expansion. That plan was based on the BBF principle.


As our Piratis reminds us the Anon Scam Plan is NULL AND VOID.

The last paragraph said that if either or both of the parties rejected it at the referendums it would, in total or in any of its parts, be NULL AND VOID.

That was the agreement - NULL AND VOID.

Have we all got it now?
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Postby denizaksulu » Sat Jan 02, 2010 1:13 pm

............and so here we are; years later still in dead-lock.


They should not have given up the talks. Varosha would have been returned to the GC admin and no doubt further talks would have yirlded more benefits to the overall peace settlement.

Why cry over spilt milk now?

Whats the next step?
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Postby observer » Sat Jan 02, 2010 1:19 pm

bill cobbett wrote:
observer wrote:
Oracle wrote:Many politicians aired their views in the tides of time; some were elected to do so, some not. But, we are in the EU now and we have a chance to continue the full democratisation, and bid for the freedom, of our sovereign country.


Many politicians (in fact I think all senior EU politicians plus the UN leadership) urged GCs to adopt the Anan Plan in the run up to the 2004 EU expansion. That plan was based on the BBF principle.


As our Piratis reminds us the Anon Scam Plan is NULL AND VOID.

The last paragraph said that if either or both of the parties rejected it at the referendums it would, in total or in any of its parts, be NULL AND VOID.

That was the agreement - NULL AND VOID.

Have we all got it now?



You are perfectly correct. I only raise it to counter Oracle's statement indicating (as I understood it) that the EU would now work to help GCs achieve a unified Cyprus with a built in GC majority. To most overseas observers the BBF proposed by the Anan Plan was a reasonable compromise. Obviously GCs thought otherwise.

The EU and other international bodies seem to have largely washed their hands of Cyprus, leaving it to GCs and TCs to negotiate a solution satisfactory to themselves.

My personal view is that since GCs will never accept a type of BBF approaching one which would satisfy TCs (even ignoring property, Turkish Army etc.) then what we have now is Cyprus' future, broadly speaking.
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Postby YFred » Sat Jan 02, 2010 1:35 pm

denizaksulu wrote:............and so here we are; years later still in dead-lock.


They should not have given up the talks. Varosha would have been returned to the GC admin and no doubt further talks would have yirlded more benefits to the overall peace settlement.

Why cry over spilt milk now?

Whats the next step?

Because he is a spoilt cow
Put a rope around her legs so she is unable to kick the bucket. Or is it Mrs Bucket.
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Postby Get Real! » Sat Jan 02, 2010 4:50 pm

observer wrote:
DT. wrote:All this time Bananiot you've been telling us that the BBF was agreed as far back as the high level agreements. It would be suicide to change it now. It now seems we never agreed to a Bi-zonal BF at the high level agreements.


At the second Geneva Conference in 1974, Denktaş and Clerides had a series of informal meetings and issued the following releases afterwars

Denktaş issued the following report:

1. Mr Glafkos Klerides and Mr Rauf Denktaş, having met within the framework of the Geneva Declaration of 30th July from 10-12 August, agreed that a fundamental revision of the Constitutional structure of the Republic of Cyprus is necessary to ensure that the tragic events of the past should not repeat themselves, and in order to provide the minimum conditions in which the Greek and Turkish communities can permanently coexist together in the Republic in full confidence so that the security of each is safeguarded.
2. Bearing in mind the existence in practice in the Republic of Cyprus of two autonomous administrations, they agreed that this revision should result in the establishment of a federal system of government based on the following fundamental elements:
a. The Republic of Cyprus shall be an independent bi-national state.
b. The Republic shall consist of two federated states with full control and autonomy within their respective boundaries.
c. In determining the competence to be left to the federal government, the bi-national nature of the State shall be taken into account and the federal competence shall be exercised accordingly.
d. The area of the Turkish Cypriot Federated State shall cover 34% of the territory of the Republic falling north of a general line starting from the Limnitis-Lefka area in the west and running towards the east, passing through the Turkish controlled part of Nicosia, including the Turkish part of Famagusta and ending at the port of Famagusta.
3. Pending an agreement on the final Constitutional structure of the Republic, the two autonomous administrations shall take over the full administrative authority within their respective areas as defined above and shall take steps to normalize and stabilize life in the Republic and refrain from acts of violence, harassment and discrimination against each other.
4. Mr Klerides and Mr Denktaş further agreed:
a. At once to hold discussions between them in Nicosia, without the participation of the representatives of Greece and Turkey in order to elaborate as a matter of urgency the constitutional structures envisaged above, and,
b. To report to the Foreign Ministers of Greece, Turkey and the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, at a further meeting to be held on 1st September 1974, on the conclusions reached.

Klerides issued the following report:

1. Mr Glafkos Klerides and Mr Rauf Denktaş, having conferred at Geneva between August 10 and 12, 1974, have concluded that a fundamental revision of the governmental system of the Republic of Cyprus is necessary to provide the conditions in which the Greek Cypriot and Turkish Cypriot communities will be able to coexist in peace in the Republic with an utter and mutual confidence that the security of all will be safeguarded. They have agreed that this revision will result in the establishment of a system based on the existence of two autonomous administrations within suitable boundaries, united under a central government. They have also agreed that these changes will be effected within the framework of a sovereign, independent and united Cyprus Republic.
2. Mr Klerides and Mr Denktaş have moreover agreed:
a. To hold discussions between them in Nicosia in order to elaborate, as a matter of immediate urgency, the constitutional structure envisaged in the above paragraph.
b. To report to the Foreign Ministers of Greece, Turkey and the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, at a further meeting to be held on 1st September 1974, on the conclusions reached.

I'd say that both sides had agreed to a BBF.

I'd say you don't have a credible link... :wink:
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Postby YFred » Sat Jan 02, 2010 5:04 pm

Get Real! wrote:
observer wrote:
DT. wrote:All this time Bananiot you've been telling us that the BBF was agreed as far back as the high level agreements. It would be suicide to change it now. It now seems we never agreed to a Bi-zonal BF at the high level agreements.


At the second Geneva Conference in 1974, Denktaş and Clerides had a series of informal meetings and issued the following releases afterwars

Denktaş issued the following report:

1. Mr Glafkos Klerides and Mr Rauf Denktaş, having met within the framework of the Geneva Declaration of 30th July from 10-12 August, agreed that a fundamental revision of the Constitutional structure of the Republic of Cyprus is necessary to ensure that the tragic events of the past should not repeat themselves, and in order to provide the minimum conditions in which the Greek and Turkish communities can permanently coexist together in the Republic in full confidence so that the security of each is safeguarded.
2. Bearing in mind the existence in practice in the Republic of Cyprus of two autonomous administrations, they agreed that this revision should result in the establishment of a federal system of government based on the following fundamental elements:
a. The Republic of Cyprus shall be an independent bi-national state.
b. The Republic shall consist of two federated states with full control and autonomy within their respective boundaries.
c. In determining the competence to be left to the federal government, the bi-national nature of the State shall be taken into account and the federal competence shall be exercised accordingly.
d. The area of the Turkish Cypriot Federated State shall cover 34% of the territory of the Republic falling north of a general line starting from the Limnitis-Lefka area in the west and running towards the east, passing through the Turkish controlled part of Nicosia, including the Turkish part of Famagusta and ending at the port of Famagusta.
3. Pending an agreement on the final Constitutional structure of the Republic, the two autonomous administrations shall take over the full administrative authority within their respective areas as defined above and shall take steps to normalize and stabilize life in the Republic and refrain from acts of violence, harassment and discrimination against each other.
4. Mr Klerides and Mr Denktaş further agreed:
a. At once to hold discussions between them in Nicosia, without the participation of the representatives of Greece and Turkey in order to elaborate as a matter of urgency the constitutional structures envisaged above, and,
b. To report to the Foreign Ministers of Greece, Turkey and the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, at a further meeting to be held on 1st September 1974, on the conclusions reached.

Klerides issued the following report:

1. Mr Glafkos Klerides and Mr Rauf Denktaş, having conferred at Geneva between August 10 and 12, 1974, have concluded that a fundamental revision of the governmental system of the Republic of Cyprus is necessary to provide the conditions in which the Greek Cypriot and Turkish Cypriot communities will be able to coexist in peace in the Republic with an utter and mutual confidence that the security of all will be safeguarded. They have agreed that this revision will result in the establishment of a system based on the existence of two autonomous administrations within suitable boundaries, united under a central government. They have also agreed that these changes will be effected within the framework of a sovereign, independent and united Cyprus Republic.
2. Mr Klerides and Mr Denktaş have moreover agreed:
a. To hold discussions between them in Nicosia in order to elaborate, as a matter of immediate urgency, the constitutional structure envisaged in the above paragraph.
b. To report to the Foreign Ministers of Greece, Turkey and the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, at a further meeting to be held on 1st September 1974, on the conclusions reached.

I'd say that both sides had agreed to a BBF.

I'd say you don't have a credible link... :wink:

That's alright GR. You will find a very credible link up on the Bendo Dachtilo mountains. Try clicking on it as it looks like it will be permanentized. Thanks to dipsticks like you.
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Postby Malapapa » Sat Jan 02, 2010 6:18 pm

YFred wrote:
Get Real! wrote:I'd say you don't have a credible link... :wink:

That's alright GR. You will find a very credible link up on the Bendo Dachtilo mountains. Try clicking on it as it looks like it will be permanentized. Thanks to dipsticks like you.


You make an embarrassing mess on the mountain and it's GRs fault? Here you go...

Image

Let's talk again after you've cleaned up.
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Postby YFred » Sat Jan 02, 2010 6:24 pm

Malapapa wrote:
YFred wrote:
Get Real! wrote:I'd say you don't have a credible link... :wink:

That's alright GR. You will find a very credible link up on the Bendo Dachtilo mountains. Try clicking on it as it looks like it will be permanentized. Thanks to dipsticks like you.


You make an embarrassing mess on the mountain and it's GRs fault? Here you go...

Image

Let's talk again after you've cleaned up.

I don't think you realise that those dark days of the sixties when cleaning jobs went to TCs are well and truly over MP. Sometimes you have to dig deeper into the root cause of a problem. Just scratching the surface with a mop is not a cure.
Happy New Year
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Postby Malapapa » Sat Jan 02, 2010 6:42 pm

YFred wrote:I don't think you realise that those dark days of the sixties when cleaning jobs went to TCs are well and truly over MP.


So who else is going to clean up that mess on the mountain, in 2010?

YFred wrote:Sometimes you have to dig deeper into the root cause of a problem. Just scratching the surface with a mop is not a cure.
Happy New Year


The sixties? The second world war could have been waged eight times over since the sixties. Europe could have been invaded by and then liberated from the Nazis eight times over since the sixties.

Adults (aged 18 or over) in 1963, today can make up no more than 5% of the population of Cyprus. So 95% of Cypriots who are being collectively punished today by a foreign military were either children or not yet born in 1963.

So do me a favour. Stop going on about the 19 f@cking 60s to excuse human rights violations happening today, in 2010.
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Postby Viewpoint » Sat Jan 02, 2010 6:57 pm

Malapapa wrote:
YFred wrote:I don't think you realise that those dark days of the sixties when cleaning jobs went to TCs are well and truly over MP.


So who else is going to clean up that mess on the mountain, in 2010?

YFred wrote:Sometimes you have to dig deeper into the root cause of a problem. Just scratching the surface with a mop is not a cure.
Happy New Year


The sixties? The second world war could have been waged eight times over since the sixties. Europe could have been invaded by and then liberated from the Nazis eight times over since the sixties.

Adults (aged 18 or over) in 1963, today can make up no more than 5% of the population of Cyprus. So 95% of Cypriots who are being collectively punished today by a foreign military were either children or not yet born in 1963.

So do me a favour. Stop going on about the 19 f@cking 60s to excuse human rights violations happening today, in 2010.


Malapapa we all have to live with our mistakes of the past, time you realized that you also contribute to the divide of today and it will continue without change a s long as you continue to persue a solution with the charachteristic GC despot attitude of we are right and you are wrong, wake up you have to share and share fairly.
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