Cyprus-Forum.com

[miltiades]

The struggle for independence was right . The ultimate goal for ENOSIS , although supported by the overwhelming majority of Cypriots was ill advised. From personal experiences that I witnessed I can say hand on my heart that the struggle was justified and long overdue. With hindsight we can comment on many issues but at the time the struggle was seen by the majority as perfectly justifiable. I lived in Ayios Loukas Famagusta and joined ANE while living there. Ayios Loukas was the bedrock of communists who despised EOKA , their kids were encouraged to tear leaflets by EOKA .
I do wish to make a very clear distinction between EOKA and EOKA B who were nothing more than warlords imposing their brand of patriotic duty to all.

[Bananiot]

The struggle for independence was right, we all agree here, but how about the method used? Was an armed struggle the right way to go about it? I think not, and history has proved right those that said it then, only to be labelled as traitors by the fascists who can not stomach a different to theirs opinion.

Piratis disputes the fact that more than half the population of Cyprus were excluded from the struggle. He must be blind. The tc's constituted about 18% then and AKEL was the only organised political party at the time, commanding about 50%. AKEL proposed a different type of struggle because it foresaw the dangers of an armed struggle. This was also the opinion of knowledgable members of the right, such as Spiridakis. Thus, the majority rejected the form of struggle chosen by the church and a manic, loser, Greek army left over.

Sorry Miltiades, carry on with your story.

[miltiades]

Enough of that now , water under or is it wine under the bridge !
Rikkos took me to Chalk Farm , Crogsland Road , forget the number , a house owned by Kiria Maria.
A couple of guys from Stroumbi one named Mitchios but naturally renamed ..Jim also stayed at the house along with George who passed away almost 4 years ago , Mitchios was heavy into body building and to me he looked massive, George was a lovely guy 5 years older than me and a very helpful chap. Mitchios married an American and went to the states havent seen him since. Poor George was involved in a car crash about 30 years ago , never quite recovered , went to his funeral in London along with Eric.

Second day in London and Rikkos wants to show me some action , on the bus we get and West End we go.
Rikkos asked if I had ever seen a naked woman , No I said , would you like to he asked , yes please Rikko I said , so down the stairs we go up the stairs we come then down again another set of stairs and then up again , this went on for a couple of hours by which time I had seen so much flesh I couldn't believe my eyes !
Rikko asked if I wanted a wimpy , not exactly what I wanted but I was hungry so we ended up in the Lions Corner House Tottenham Court Road . 1 and 3 the wimpy was thrupence extra if you wanted chips , I was amazed that in entering Lyons so many girls new Rikko and called out his name , a handsome 21 year old with pots of personality charm and a natural charisma something I lacked but made up by my boyish shyness and constant blushing.Rikko asked if I had ever kissed a girl , I said yes once in Limassol but only on the cheek !!
I ll introduce to a nice girl he said , I couldn't wait but in the meantime I had to start work , money was needed back home to help the remaining three of the family to join us. Rikkos wasted most of his money on girls and good time , he was to become a compulsive gambler later on , a trait he had as a kid in Cyprus plying the riaki , the Riaki kid they called him. Fearless old Rikko , he was scared of no one I knew he would take care of me if need be.

[SSBubbles]

There is nothing I enjoy more than the sheer pleasure I experience when preparing a feast , cooking has been a love of mine for many years now , as always whilst preparing the motions have to be adequately refreshed with a glass of nectar , Gods own nectar , a glass of wine or two.!!!
Yesterday I headed off in search of a good size fresh Turkey , brussell sprouts , carrots , aubergines , alas I couldn't find cranberry sauce so I decided since I brought over fresh fruit to make my own and very nice it turned out to be.
I left the choice of guests to the master of the house , my son in law or rather to my daughter !!!
As the guests arrived the Turkey was just ready to be carved ,having been cooking for 7 hours, vegetables were perfectly cooked , my cranberry sauce ready and delicious , roasted carrots and roasted aubergines glazed with honey , herbs and red wine and of course roast Cypriot potatoes as well as a village salad.
Gravy was home made with just a touch of Bisto. All looked too good to eat , carved the Turkey , placed the roasted vegetables on a tray , garnished the vegetables with olive oil and lemon and ready we were to begin the feast .!!
My brother who also came over for the Xmas holidays arrived wearing , as he always does , a bloody bowler hat , I made him take it off before sitting at the table , such an eccentric he is , he insists that his plate is red hot , almost burned my fingers placing it in front of him.
Apart from my self , brother and daughter our guests were all Cyprus Cypriots by that I mean pure unadulterated Cypriots unlike the three of us influenced somehow in our eating habits by the UK.
Our guests , all family members quickly proceeded to help themselves to the Turkey , potatoes bread and salad , and to my surprise mint sauce was requested !! I said what ? mint sauce on Turkey out of a jar !!!. My daughter explained that on previous dinner parties she had introduced mint sauce on lamb and ever since all love mint sauce on lamb , pork , souvla , Turkey and on any other meat dish.
Ah , I said , I made some fresh cranberry sauce wont you at least try it ? After dinner some replied , we don't eat jam with our meat !
I thought I try tempting them with my home made gravy , yak I hear one say while he vigorously squeezed a whole lemon on his Turkey .
Lovely bunch of " in-laws " wouldn't change them for the world , mint sauce on Turkey or not !!
Happy new year all.

Milti, I take it that my invitation is 'lost in the post'.

[miltiades]

Lets meet for a drink today Bubbles , I'm free lunchtime would you and Mr Bubbles join me for a traditional Cypriot lunch at a Restaurant rear of Pantopolion .Give me a call.

[SSBubbles]

Lets meet for a drink today Bubbles , I'm free lunchtime would you and Mr Bubbles join me for a traditional Cypriot lunch at a Restaurant rear of Pantopolion .Give me a call.

Milti! Sorry but I have just seen this invitation! (been busy all day) I will contact you later to see if we can meet up before you leave.

[Piratis]

Piratis, is it so difficult for you to accept that they committed horrible crimes? Grivas and Papadopoulos were instrumental in these committed murders in the Famagusta district. In Milia they even murdered a young girl for christ's sake.

On the other hand, the intercommunal strife did not start simply because the TC's joined forces with the Brits. This is a simplistic way of looking at things. By 1958, Grivas had already declared that in the struggle for enosis, the left and the TC community had no place. The left disagreed with the form of the struggle but did not object to enosis. It was a legitimate position for the GC majority. However, when EOKA excluded more than half of the population of Cyprus from this struggle, the seeds of conflict were sown. It was a divisive organisation headed by a couple of fanatics who could never inspire all the Cypriots.

So, if one needs to look for reasons for our present day state, one needs to look no further than EOKA and its leadership. Pallikarides and the rest of the boys that were killed are as much victims of EOKA as the rest of the Cypriots that were actually killed by EOKA.

One must not forget the extremist organisation within the TC society, TMT. In effect EOKA and TMT were the two sides of the same coin, in their aims. One wanted union with Greece and the other partition. Both organisations called upon respective members of their communities to even stop selling or buying from the other community.

If we really care about this tragic island, the blaming game needs to stop. It does not help our cause. We should be looking instead at the historical reasons that produce this calamity , study them and try to avoid making the same mistakes in the future. Arguments of the type "you killed 10's more than we did" simply serve to destroy Cyprus forever.

I totally agree with all the sentiments in this post....Piratis says Enosis with Greece was the legitimate right of the Cypriot people...It is so evident that he doesnt consider the TCs as Cypriots...A despised minority then and a despised minority now...What a pity...I wouldn't use the word "right" together with "legitimate" to describe the GC ambition...I would say it wa a legitimate "ambition" for the GCs...But a very foolish one,given the presence of the TC minority,and how that would've been used by the British as a weapon to divide us...In any case i believe the idea of Enosis was supplanted by the British into GC minds,likewise Taksim into TC minds....It worked like a dream for the British...

But anyway,it is fascinating to hear all these different opinions about the EOKA from GCs...for the TCs EOKA was considered worse than the Black Death of course...

By the same token the freedom of any Greek territory once occupied by the Ottomans was not right or legitimate just because some Muslim minority was formed on that territory during the years of the Turkish occupation.

Tell me Bir, do you still miss the Ottoman Empire? Do you still dream of it? It was nice how you were oppressing us for centuries, wasn't it?

[denizaksulu]

Piratis, is it so difficult for you to accept that they committed horrible crimes? Grivas and Papadopoulos were instrumental in these committed murders in the Famagusta district. In Milia they even murdered a young girl for christ's sake.

On the other hand, the intercommunal strife did not start simply because the TC's joined forces with the Brits. This is a simplistic way of looking at things. By 1958, Grivas had already declared that in the struggle for enosis, the left and the TC community had no place. The left disagreed with the form of the struggle but did not object to enosis. It was a legitimate position for the GC majority. However, when EOKA excluded more than half of the population of Cyprus from this struggle, the seeds of conflict were sown. It was a divisive organisation headed by a couple of fanatics who could never inspire all the Cypriots.

So, if one needs to look for reasons for our present day state, one needs to look no further than EOKA and its leadership. Pallikarides and the rest of the boys that were killed are as much victims of EOKA as the rest of the Cypriots that were actually killed by EOKA.

One must not forget the extremist organisation within the TC society, TMT. In effect EOKA and TMT were the two sides of the same coin, in their aims. One wanted union with Greece and the other partition. Both organisations called upon respective members of their communities to even stop selling or buying from the other community.

If we really care about this tragic island, the blaming game needs to stop. It does not help our cause. We should be looking instead at the historical reasons that produce this calamity , study them and try to avoid making the same mistakes in the future. Arguments of the type "you killed 10's more than we did" simply serve to destroy Cyprus forever.

I totally agree with all the sentiments in this post....Piratis says Enosis with Greece was the legitimate right of the Cypriot people...It is so evident that he doesnt consider the TCs as Cypriots...A despised minority then and a despised minority now...What a pity...I wouldn't use the word "right" together with "legitimate" to describe the GC ambition...I would say it wa a legitimate "ambition" for the GCs...But a very foolish one,given the presence of the TC minority,and how that would've been used by the British as a weapon to divide us...In any case i believe the idea of Enosis was supplanted by the British into GC minds,likewise Taksim into TC minds....It worked like a dream for the British...

But anyway,it is fascinating to hear all these different opinions about the EOKA from GCs...for the TCs EOKA was considered worse than the Black Death of course...

By the same token the freedom of any Greek territory once occupied by the Ottomans was not right or legitimate just because some Muslim minority was formed on that territory during the years of the Turkish occupation.

Tell me Bir, do you still miss the Ottoman Empire? Do you still dream of it? It was nice how you were oppressing us for centuries, wasn't it?

What a mucking fentality this guys got.

Piratis you are the number one Partitionist. You should join forces wit VP or pat each other on the back. What a plonker.

[BirKibrisli]

Piratis, is it so difficult for you to accept that they committed horrible crimes? Grivas and Papadopoulos were instrumental in these committed murders in the Famagusta district. In Milia they even murdered a young girl for christ's sake.

On the other hand, the intercommunal strife did not start simply because the TC's joined forces with the Brits. This is a simplistic way of looking at things. By 1958, Grivas had already declared that in the struggle for enosis, the left and the TC community had no place. The left disagreed with the form of the struggle but did not object to enosis. It was a legitimate position for the GC majority. However, when EOKA excluded more than half of the population of Cyprus from this struggle, the seeds of conflict were sown. It was a divisive organisation headed by a couple of fanatics who could never inspire all the Cypriots.

So, if one needs to look for reasons for our present day state, one needs to look no further than EOKA and its leadership. Pallikarides and the rest of the boys that were killed are as much victims of EOKA as the rest of the Cypriots that were actually killed by EOKA.

One must not forget the extremist organisation within the TC society, TMT. In effect EOKA and TMT were the two sides of the same coin, in their aims. One wanted union with Greece and the other partition. Both organisations called upon respective members of their communities to even stop selling or buying from the other community.

If we really care about this tragic island, the blaming game needs to stop. It does not help our cause. We should be looking instead at the historical reasons that produce this calamity , study them and try to avoid making the same mistakes in the future. Arguments of the type "you killed 10's more than we did" simply serve to destroy Cyprus forever.

I totally agree with all the sentiments in this post....Piratis says Enosis with Greece was the legitimate right of the Cypriot people...It is so evident that he doesnt consider the TCs as Cypriots...A despised minority then and a despised minority now...What a pity...I wouldn't use the word "right" together with "legitimate" to describe the GC ambition...I would say it wa a legitimate "ambition" for the GCs...But a very foolish one,given the presence of the TC minority,and how that would've been used by the British as a weapon to divide us...In any case i believe the idea of Enosis was supplanted by the British into GC minds,likewise Taksim into TC minds....It worked like a dream for the British...

But anyway,it is fascinating to hear all these different opinions about the EOKA from GCs...for the TCs EOKA was considered worse than the Black Death of course...

By the same token the freedom of any Greek territory once occupied by the Ottomans was not right or legitimate just because some Muslim minority was formed on that territory during the years of the Turkish occupation.

Tell me Bir, do you still miss the Ottoman Empire? Do you still dream of it? It was nice how you were oppressing us for centuries, wasn't it?

Piratis,
with every post you write you confirm my new-found suspicion that the GC struggle is
all about revenge...You have never forgiven the Ottomans for their deed,and never stopped wanting to extract your pound of flesh,even after 400 years....You truly scare me...It now makes so much more sense that you would totally dismiss the pain and suffering of the TCs..Or pay lipservice at best...Deep in your heart you truly believe we deserve all we get..and what is more we deserve all that you have in store for us for the future..

To answer your rather foolish question : NO, I do not miss the Ottoman empire...I did not live during the Ottoman times...All I remember is the 1950s onwards,the British time and the EOKA and TMT times,and the stillborn Republic of Cyprus time,and particularly the 63-69 period,before I was forced to leave my beloved homeland and seek refugee in Australia from those who carried your mentality....It was terrible what the original inhabitants of Cyprus had to endure during Ottoman times,but that is not my fault,or the fault of the TC community...We had no control over the historical forces which ruled our lives and our world back in those dark ages...Obviously you and probably plenty more like you have carrried the emotional scars of those dark times to our time...The ENOSIS struggle is making more and more sense to me...And more and more I am convinced that the TC stand (to oppose Enosis with all their might) has been vindicated ....

[Piratis]

This is a pathetic attempt to make GC look "evil" so you can excuse against us yet more crimes. Where have I asked for any "revenge"? You talk about the suffering of TCs, I talk about the suffering of GCs. Are you allowed to talk about your suffering and blame us for it, but I am not allowed to do the same for the many times more crimes you committed against us?

Unlike you, I seek no revenge. What I want for Cyprus is finally to be free from foreign invaders and oppressors, to have one united Cyprus with all Cypriot citizens equal without racist discriminations and anachronistic divisions which you imposed on us since the Ottoman times and you want to maintain in the 21st century. I never asked for even a single of your human rights to be violated.

On the contrary, you distort parts of our history in your attempt to show that "TCs are angels", "GCs are evil" and in this way excuse yet more crimes against us. Therefore you are the one who is seeking revenge, not me.

I can also say "Those Ottoman oppressors who killed 10s of thousands of innocent Cypriot and oppressed us for centuries carried your mentality and therefore you are responsible for their actions. The same goes for the TMT criminals in the 50s and the 60s (which you are personally related to) and for your massive crimes against us in 74" and I could also say "I did not live during the 60s so what happened then it is not my fault". See how easy it is to put blame on you and refuse to take any blame for myself? You are a master in this, but we could easily do the same.

What matters is what YOU are doing TODAY.

And what you support for today and for the future is yet more crimes, racist divisions and human rights violations, and you are selectively choosing parts of the past trying to excuse your criminal actions of today.

On the contrary what I support for today and for the future is a free democratic Cyprus, where all Cypriot citizens are equal with no racist discriminations.