Cyprus-Forum.com

[paliometoxo]

NICOSIA: President Demetris Christofias and Turkish Cypriot leader Mehmet Ali Talat will hold their first meeting of the new year Monday and the Eu will be on the agenda.
The meeting will take place at 4pm at the old Nicosia Airport.
In a joint statement was read at the last meeting, President Christofias and Turkish Cypriot leader Mehmet Ali Talat expressed their strong hope that 2010 will be the year to resolve the Cyprus problem.
The two leaders also announced the dates of their meetings in January, which will intensify the discussions.
The meetings will take place on 11, 12, 13 and 18, 19, 20 January 2010 at the house of the Special Representative of the SG of the UN in Cyprus, Taya Brooke Zerichoun in the UN-controlled zone in Nicosia

i live 5 minutes away from the nicosia old airport. i should go take pictures haha go ask talat how it feels to be a puppet of turkey ask talat why he fights when there is no chance of them having two states..

[Acikgoz]

BirKib - sorry but not sure where you are coming from with such a ludicrous comment of TCs being a minority in TRNC by 5 to 1.
Tali - regarding the increase in numbers of mainland Turks settling in Cyprus, since the last consensus of 2006, work permits have been tightened by Talat and numbers have levelled off rather. The housing sector which was the primary driver has slowed significantly.

I was curious where you got the numbers for of Turkish immigrants as it may provide a lead to find the numbers of earlier years.

Any prospect of equal opportunities in d'South Tali?
Out of curiosity, are Greek Cypriots NOT allowed to live and work in the TRNC by TRNC law?

Palio - what has your words got to do with anything?! Stick to the issue.

[DT.]

BirKib - sorry but not sure where you are coming from with such a ludicrous comment of TCs being a minority in TRNC by 5 to 1.

Why don't you tell us then by what number YOU think the TC's are outnumbered?

Any prospect of equal opportunities in d'South Tali?

Know a TC girl working in a recruitment consultancy and she says no problems. Also one of my friends owns a construction company and he hires TC workers not cause they're cheaper (pay about the same as GC's) but because GC's don't want to do these jobs anymore.

Out of curiosity, are Greek Cypriots NOT allowed to live and work in the TRNC by TRNC law?

Usually labour moves from developing regions to developed ones. Hence the one-way traffic. There are off course exceptions, and you're welcome to them (Fanos)

[Talisker]

Of the entire population from the census in 2006 approximately one in six individuals was a Turkish immigrant arriving in the TRNC between 2002-05 (4,110, 7,993, 13,448 and 18,408 Turkish immigrants for 2002, 2003, 2004 and 2005 respectively within a total population of ~255,000). To put this in perspective it would be the same as finding out that the current UK population of 60 million had within it 10 million immigrants (all from one neighbouring nation) who had arrived in those same four years!

Look at the rate of increase in those numbers - it is almost exponential! Is this continuing? If it has then TCs must be a minority in the TRNC!

Talisker,there is no doubt whatsoever that the TCs are now a minority,probably by 5 to 1,in the North...Thankfully not all the settlers have been naturalised,but enough have been to decide the outcome of any election or referandum...But not all TCs see this as a problem,as VP's stand shows...Even most of the TCs in the dispora would prefer the present situation to the one pre 74....This is entirely due to the fact that the GCs are in total denial of the TC predicament pre 74...The trauma sufered by the TC community during the 50s and 60s has left a truly big emotional scar...Nothing has been done to heal this,and to promote understanding and trust....When I point this out I get accused of trying to justify the events of 74 and the aftermath...when I tell people the average TC had gained little from 74 and lost a lot,I get accused of exaggeration...Literally 10s of thousands of TCs (myself included) left between 1963 and 74,mostly for England but some further afield)...These people only remember the bad times in Cyprus...They and their decendants see Turkey as their true saviour,and no amount of talk about democracy or the EU club will change their minds...About time the GCs grasped this simple fact...

Sorry to be brutally frank about this Bir, and I think I've already said this to you, but your generation are 'yesterday's men' - I think it is disingenuous for the older generations (I know you told me previously you are only in your fifties, but clearly your views and attitudes all relate back to what was, no doubt, a traumatic period for you personally and for Cyprus more generally) to dictate to younger TCs how their future should be determined. The thing is your generation and previous generations (of both GCs and TCs, along with help from the Brits, Turks, Greeks, CIA, whatever....) managed to mess up Cyprus' transition to independence from colonial rule, and it is time for the younger generations to make their decisions on the future for Cyprus. I hope they will decide to be a united single nation within the EU and using common democratic principles and human rights (equality for all) as the underpinning scaffold for the newly reunified nation.

[Talisker]

BirKib - sorry but not sure where you are coming from with such a ludicrous comment of TCs being a minority in TRNC by 5 to 1.
Tali - regarding the increase in numbers of mainland Turks settling in Cyprus, since the last consensus of 2006, work permits have been tightened by Talat and numbers have levelled off rather. The housing sector which was the primary driver has slowed significantly.

I was curious where you got the numbers for of Turkish immigrants as it may provide a lead to find the numbers of earlier years.

Any prospect of equal opportunities in d'South Tali?
Out of curiosity, are Greek Cypriots NOT allowed to live and work in the TRNC by TRNC law?

Got these figures from page 2 from the following link:
http://www.nufussayimi.devplan.org/Census%202006-3.pdf
If you want earlier figures for Turkish immigrants go to page 3.

Every prospect of equal opportunities in 'd'South' Acikgoz - Cyprus is in the EU and must legally provide these equal opportunities for EU citizens.

[Oracle]

Of the entire population from the census in 2006 approximately one in six individuals was a Turkish immigrant arriving in the TRNC between 2002-05 (4,110, 7,993, 13,448 and 18,408 Turkish immigrants for 2002, 2003, 2004 and 2005 respectively within a total population of ~255,000). To put this in perspective it would be the same as finding out that the current UK population of 60 million had within it 10 million immigrants (all from one neighbouring nation) who had arrived in those same four years!

Look at the rate of increase in those numbers - it is almost exponential! Is this continuing? If it has then TCs must be a minority in the TRNC!

Talisker,there is no doubt whatsoever that the TCs are now a minority,probably by 5 to 1,in the North...Thankfully not all the settlers have been naturalised,but enough have been to decide the outcome of any election or referandum...But not all TCs see this as a problem,as VP's stand shows...Even most of the TCs in the dispora would prefer the present situation to the one pre 74....This is entirely due to the fact that the GCs are in total denial of the TC predicament pre 74...The trauma sufered by the TC community during the 50s and 60s has left a truly big emotional scar...Nothing has been done to heal this,and to promote understanding and trust....When I point this out I get accused of trying to justify the events of 74 and the aftermath...when I tell people the average TC had gained little from 74 and lost a lot,I get accused of exaggeration...Literally 10s of thousands of TCs (myself included) left between 1963 and 74,mostly for England but some further afield)...These people only remember the bad times in Cyprus...They and their decendants see Turkey as their true saviour,and no amount of talk about democracy or the EU club will change their minds...About time the GCs grasped this simple fact...

And TCs are in denial about the exorbitant gains they had, ruling us right up to 1963, and then setting about enforcing Turkey to continue this by invasion and now occupation whereby unfair stolen gains have been restored to the TCs.

I am sure Talisker is well aware of the similarities of the tyrannous minority of TCs to those of the white colonialist Masters of South Africa who enslaved the natives. Bir, you are using the same tactics to prolong your unfair hold over our island ...

Oracle,you are indeed deluded if you think the TCs ruled the GCs till 1963...Your condition is more serious that I thought... Everything was tilted 70-30 % towards the GCs,but even that wasnt enough for you...You had to have complete control over the TCs...And you continue with your overgeneralisations amd mind readings and catastrophising in this post...I now realise your condition is hopeless...Not even psychotherapy will do you any good...You are unfortunately a basket case...

Stop contaminating the Cyprus Problem with your personal failings!

Get a grip, old man!

[boomerang]

Of the entire population from the census in 2006 approximately one in six individuals was a Turkish immigrant arriving in the TRNC between 2002-05 (4,110, 7,993, 13,448 and 18,408 Turkish immigrants for 2002, 2003, 2004 and 2005 respectively within a total population of ~255,000). To put this in perspective it would be the same as finding out that the current UK population of 60 million had within it 10 million immigrants (all from one neighbouring nation) who had arrived in those same four years!

Look at the rate of increase in those numbers - it is almost exponential! Is this continuing? If it has then TCs must be a minority in the TRNC!

Talisker,there is no doubt whatsoever that the TCs are now a minority,probably by 5 to 1,in the North...Thankfully not all the settlers have been naturalised,but enough have been to decide the outcome of any election or referandum...But not all TCs see this as a problem,as VP's stand shows...Even most of the TCs in the dispora would prefer the present situation to the one pre 74....This is entirely due to the fact that the GCs are in total denial of the TC predicament pre 74...The trauma sufered by the TC community during the 50s and 60s has left a truly big emotional scar...Nothing has been done to heal this,and to promote understanding and trust....When I point this out I get accused of trying to justify the events of 74 and the aftermath...when I tell people the average TC had gained little from 74 and lost a lot,I get accused of exaggeration...Literally 10s of thousands of TCs (myself included) left between 1963 and 74,mostly for England but some further afield)...These people only remember the bad times in Cyprus...They and their decendants see Turkey as their true saviour,and no amount of talk about democracy or the EU club will change their minds...About time the GCs grasped this simple fact...

Sorry to be brutally frank about this Bir, and I think I've already said this to you, but your generation are 'yesterday's men' - I think it is disingenuous for the older generations (I know you told me previously you are only in your fifties, but clearly your views and attitudes all relate back to what was, no doubt, a traumatic period for you personally and for Cyprus more generally) to dictate to younger TCs how their future should be determined. The thing is your generation and previous generations (of both GCs and TCs, along with help from the Brits, Turks, Greeks, CIA, whatever....) managed to mess up Cyprus' transition to independence from colonial rule, and it is time for the younger generations to make their decisions on the future for Cyprus. I hope they will decide to be a united single nation within the EU and using common democratic principles and human rights (equality for all) as the underpinning scaffold for the newly reunified nation.

bir has a one track mind with the poor me mentality, like a worn out stylus playing on a scratched LP going around and around unable to see the world dynamics have changed, especially when it comes to the EU...

surpisingly enough for a person that resides in a democracy, respect for human rights and the rule of law, has learned nothing to say the least...

he still sees turkey as a saviour when the opposite can be argued...amazing...

[Acikgoz]

Tali tks for data, good to compare stats with experience. I believe there must have been a non counting of TCs that moved to UK for example between 1963 and 1974 then returned to Cyprus post 1974 as I personally know scores that returned and my range of persons known of TCs is certainly limited. Without the return of TCs to Cyprus not being counted as immigrants the numbers would certainly not add up.

Being in the EU does not mean equal opportunities. Recently Greece has been placed under the kosh for corruption and cronyism. Indeed nice ideals, but realities are that northern European countries are less inclined to nepotism and cronyism.

Not clear on why no GCs working in the North. DT mentioned no opps. Cannot believe there are simply no opportunities vis-a-vis South. Recent blogs for example about teaching Greek - surely a way to make money for a second rate teacher finding it hard to cut the mustard in d'South.

DT re your comment on types of jobs, I believe you missed Tali's point about brain drain. Not talking manual labour, but intellectual career type roles for smart upwardly mobile that can contribute to smarter working organs/co.s in Cyprus.

[BirKibrisli]

Of the entire population from the census in 2006 approximately one in six individuals was a Turkish immigrant arriving in the TRNC between 2002-05 (4,110, 7,993, 13,448 and 18,408 Turkish immigrants for 2002, 2003, 2004 and 2005 respectively within a total population of ~255,000). To put this in perspective it would be the same as finding out that the current UK population of 60 million had within it 10 million immigrants (all from one neighbouring nation) who had arrived in those same four years!

Look at the rate of increase in those numbers - it is almost exponential! Is this continuing? If it has then TCs must be a minority in the TRNC!

Talisker,there is no doubt whatsoever that the TCs are now a minority,probably by 5 to 1,in the North...Thankfully not all the settlers have been naturalised,but enough have been to decide the outcome of any election or referandum...But not all TCs see this as a problem,as VP's stand shows...Even most of the TCs in the dispora would prefer the present situation to the one pre 74....This is entirely due to the fact that the GCs are in total denial of the TC predicament pre 74...The trauma sufered by the TC community during the 50s and 60s has left a truly big emotional scar...Nothing has been done to heal this,and to promote understanding and trust....When I point this out I get accused of trying to justify the events of 74 and the aftermath...when I tell people the average TC had gained little from 74 and lost a lot,I get accused of exaggeration...Literally 10s of thousands of TCs (myself included) left between 1963 and 74,mostly for England but some further afield)...These people only remember the bad times in Cyprus...They and their decendants see Turkey as their true saviour,and no amount of talk about democracy or the EU club will change their minds...About time the GCs grasped this simple fact...

Sorry to be brutally frank about this Bir, and I think I've already said this to you, but your generation are 'yesterday's men' - I think it is disingenuous for the older generations (I know you told me previously you are only in your fifties, but clearly your views and attitudes all relate back to what was, no doubt, a traumatic period for you personally and for Cyprus more generally) to dictate to younger TCs how their future should be determined. The thing is your generation and previous generations (of both GCs and TCs, along with help from the Brits, Turks, Greeks, CIA, whatever....) managed to mess up Cyprus' transition to independence from colonial rule, and it is time for the younger generations to make their decisions on the future for Cyprus. I hope they will decide to be a united single nation within the EU and using common democratic principles and human rights (equality for all) as the underpinning scaffold for the newly reunified nation.

Talisker, you are barking up the wrong tree...If you think that the young people are free of our trauma and prejudice ,you are totally deluded...
If it is left to the younger generations,they know only one thing : Separation,apartheid...That is what they are comfortable with,and that is why the unstated official policy of the GCs now is Partition...mark my words,if my generation is taken out of the equation,the solution will be permanent partition with little adjustments to save GC and Turkish faces...

[Tim Drayton]

Tali tks for data, good to compare stats with experience. I believe there must have been a non counting of TCs that moved to UK for example between 1963 and 1974 then returned to Cyprus post 1974 as I personally know scores that returned and my range of persons known of TCs is certainly limited. Without the return of TCs to Cyprus not being counted as immigrants the numbers would certainly not add up.

Being in the EU does not mean equal opportunities. Recently Greece has been placed under the kosh for corruption and cronyism. Indeed nice ideals, but realities are that northern European countries are less inclined to nepotism and cronyism.

Not clear on why no GCs working in the North. DT mentioned no opps. Cannot believe there are simply no opportunities vis-a-vis South. Recent blogs for example about teaching Greek - surely a way to make money for a second rate teacher finding it hard to cut the mustard in d'South.

DT re your comment on types of jobs, I believe you missed Tali's point about brain drain. Not talking manual labour, but intellectual career type roles for smart upwardly mobile that can contribute to smarter working organs/co.s in Cyprus.

I believe there are some GCs employed at casinos in the north to deal with GC customers. It is not easy for an employer to get permission to employ foreigners in the TRNC. They have to provide a reason for employing a foreigner rather than a national.