Cyprus-Forum.com

[BirKibrisli]

I can't vouch for the accuracy of the information within the links I provide, but hope they lead to interesting debate!

You might want to look at the information below from 'The Final Results of TRNC General Population and Housing Unit Census (2006)' (Doesn't copy and paste well into the forum format so suggest you look at table on page 8 entitled 'POPULATION ACCORDING TO CITIZENSHIP' from: http://www.nufussayimi.devplan.org/Census%202006.pdf).

De facto population De facto % share De jure population De jure % share
GENERAL TOTAL 265,100 100.0 256,644 100.0
1. TRNC 133,937 50.5 135,106 52.6
2. TRNC AND OTHER 42,795 16.1 42,925 16.7
a. TRNC ‐ Turkey 33,870 12.8 34,370 13.4
b. TRNC ‐ UK 4,185 1.6 3,854 1.5
c. TRNC ‐ Other 4,740 1.8 4,701 1.8
3. TURKEY 77,731 29.3 70,525 27.5
4. OTHER 10,637 4.0 8,088 3.2
a. Uk 4,458 1.7 2,729 1.1
b. Bulgaria 831 0.3 797 0.3
c. Iran 775 0.3 759 0.3
d. Moldovia 485 0.2 354 0.1
e. Pakistan 490 0.2 475 0.2
f. Germany 343 0.1 181 0.1
d. Other 3,255 1.2 2,793 1.1

Thanks Talisker.

So the figure of 265K includes 'every body' in the north, including tourists and others. By others do they mean the small GC/Karpasia enclave and the Maronites?

As they say,There are lies,damn lies,and satistics....The figure in the trnc is pushing 500,000 thousand according to some journalists on Afrika newspaper...Of which only about 65,000 are real TCs...
I haven't read this thread carefully (statistics always bore me to death) so I might be talking through my hat...But if the suggestion is that the new TC children are doing badly academically that is perfectly understandable...The settlers are largely unskilled workers with little education...Giving their kids a good education environment at home or at school would not be a priority...

[Talisker]

And here's a link to further details from the census relating to De-Jure Population by Age Group, Citizenship and Gender, Immigrated Population by Year, Country and Gender, Immigrated Population by Country, Reason and Gender, De-Jure Population by Permanent Residence, Citizenship and Gender, and Reason and Gender of Population Present for Temporary Reasons.
http://www.nufussayimi.devplan.org/Census%202006-3.pdf

[Acikgoz]

The 1963 - 1972 - 1978 dramatic decrease then jump can be explained by the issues TCs faced between 1963-1974 as many emmigrated to the UK and beyond for safety. Then after 1975 there was a relief return by many TCs from places like London back to their homeland, with the prospect of opportunity and safety.

My experience was that prior to 1985 there were limited Turkish immigrants. Through to the mid 1990s their growth was slow, focus more on agriculture sector. Late 1990s early 2000s was when the increase was truly noticeable. This coincided with manual labour opportunities growing in TRNC predominantly lead by the building boom.

As a result the substitution of mainland immigrants into the TRNC mix will take a while to generate the TRNC undergraduate numbers. Therefore the simple increase in numbers of Turkish mainland immigrants weighted against educated TCs leaving makes for false accounting when trying to discern the issue.

Back however to the issue at hand, the access to RoC passports and EU education facilities offered after the borders were opened appears to have been the catalyst for the current emmigration by the educated TCs out of Cyprus. To reverse such a trend and keep the brains in Cyprus requires real opportunities for TCs to have careers in the South, the prospect of running companies and getting paid well for it. Meritocracy over "keeping it in the family" must be available.

Unfortunately cronyism/nepotism are still culturally predominant in the Med countries and there is unlikely to be change in that situation anytime soon.

[Oracle]

The 1963 - 1972 - 1978 dramatic decrease then jump can be explained by the issues TCs faced between 1963-1974 as many emmigrated to the UK and beyond for safety. Then after 1975 there was a relief return by many TCs from places like London back to their homeland, with the prospect of opportunity and safety..

Don't jump to conclusions to fit your perverted history ... How do you explain similar migrations by GCs?

And how do you explain a greater number (and huge proportion relative to GCs) of TCs leaving after 1974?

.. the 1974 conflict and the subsequent partition of the island resulted in around 40,000 Turkish Cypriots leaving the southern zone and 200,000 Greek Cypriots being forced to flee the newly established northern zone under Turkish military occupation. Estimates of the numbers who migrated to Britain at this time are around 12,000 Greek Cypriots, 2,000 Christians and around 15,000 Turkish Cypriots, most of whom settled in Greater London, particularly in the boroughs of Enfield and Haringey.

http://www.researchasylum.org.uk/?lid=1304

[Talisker]

Of the entire population from the census in 2006 approximately one in six individuals was a Turkish immigrant arriving in the TRNC between 2002-05 (4,110, 7,993, 13,448 and 18,408 Turkish immigrants for 2002, 2003, 2004 and 2005 respectively within a total population of ~255,000). To put this in perspective it would be the same as finding out that the current UK population of 60 million had within it 10 million immigrants (all from one neighbouring nation) who had arrived in those same four years!

Look at the rate of increase in those numbers - it is almost exponential! Is this continuing? If it has then TCs must be a minority in the TRNC!

[denizaksulu]

I can't vouch for the accuracy of the information within the links I provide, but hope they lead to interesting debate!

You might want to look at the information below from 'The Final Results of TRNC General Population and Housing Unit Census (2006)' (Doesn't copy and paste well into the forum format so suggest you look at table on page 8 entitled 'POPULATION ACCORDING TO CITIZENSHIP' from: http://www.nufussayimi.devplan.org/Census%202006.pdf).

De facto population De facto % share De jure population De jure % share
GENERAL TOTAL 265,100 100.0 256,644 100.0
1. TRNC 133,937 50.5 135,106 52.6
2. TRNC AND OTHER 42,795 16.1 42,925 16.7
a. TRNC ‐ Turkey 33,870 12.8 34,370 13.4
b. TRNC ‐ UK 4,185 1.6 3,854 1.5
c. TRNC ‐ Other 4,740 1.8 4,701 1.8
3. TURKEY 77,731 29.3 70,525 27.5
4. OTHER 10,637 4.0 8,088 3.2
a. Uk 4,458 1.7 2,729 1.1
b. Bulgaria 831 0.3 797 0.3
c. Iran 775 0.3 759 0.3
d. Moldovia 485 0.2 354 0.1
e. Pakistan 490 0.2 475 0.2
f. Germany 343 0.1 181 0.1
d. Other 3,255 1.2 2,793 1.1

Thanks Talisker.

So the figure of 265K includes 'every body' in the north, including tourists and others. By others do they mean the small GC/Karpasia enclave and the Maronites?

No, I don't think so - if you look at page 2 (Other Citizens De-Jure Population by Citizenship, Age Group and Gender) of 'additional tables' (http://www.nufussayimi.devplan.org/Additional%20Tables.pdf) then you'll notice most individuals in this category are in the 16-30 age range. But I can't be sure as I don't know the numbers of Maronites or GCs at Karpasia.

I'm sure some will also be interested in the tables (Immigrated Population by Year, Citizenship and Gender) on pages 3 and 4 of the same document.

I cannot claim to be an expert in population statistics, but somewhere along the line there is an anomaly to get this exorbitant figure. They cannot all be real TC's.

The number of GCs in Karpasia is no more than a few thousand I believe. (perhaps in their hundreds).

[BirKibrisli]

Of the entire population from the census in 2006 approximately one in six individuals was a Turkish immigrant arriving in the TRNC between 2002-05 (4,110, 7,993, 13,448 and 18,408 Turkish immigrants for 2002, 2003, 2004 and 2005 respectively within a total population of ~255,000). To put this in perspective it would be the same as finding out that the current UK population of 60 million had within it 10 million immigrants (all from one neighbouring nation) who had arrived in those same four years!

Look at the rate of increase in those numbers - it is almost exponential! Is this continuing? If it has then TCs must be a minority in the TRNC!

Talisker,there is no doubt whatsoever that the TCs are now a minority,probably by 5 to 1,in the North...Thankfully not all the settlers have been naturalised,but enough have been to decide the outcome of any election or referandum...But not all TCs see this as a problem,as VP's stand shows...Even most of the TCs in the dispora would prefer the present situation to the one pre 74....This is entirely due to the fact that the GCs are in total denial of the TC predicament pre 74...The trauma sufered by the TC community during the 50s and 60s has left a truly big emotional scar...Nothing has been done to heal this,and to promote understanding and trust....When I point this out I get accused of trying to justify the events of 74 and the aftermath...when I tell people the average TC had gained little from 74 and lost a lot,I get accused of exaggeration...Literally 10s of thousands of TCs (myself included) left between 1963 and 74,mostly for England but some further afield)...These people only remember the bad times in Cyprus...They and their decendants see Turkey as their true saviour,and no amount of talk about democracy or the EU club will change their minds...About time the GCs grasped this simple fact...

[Viewpoint]

Of the entire population from the census in 2006 approximately one in six individuals was a Turkish immigrant arriving in the TRNC between 2002-05 (4,110, 7,993, 13,448 and 18,408 Turkish immigrants for 2002, 2003, 2004 and 2005 respectively within a total population of ~255,000). To put this in perspective it would be the same as finding out that the current UK population of 60 million had within it 10 million immigrants (all from one neighbouring nation) who had arrived in those same four years!

Look at the rate of increase in those numbers - it is almost exponential! Is this continuing? If it has then TCs must be a minority in the TRNC!

Talisker,there is no doubt whatsoever that the TCs are now a minority,probably by 5 to 1,in the North...Thankfully not all the settlers have been naturalised,but enough have been to decide the outcome of any election or referandum...But not all TCs see this as a problem,as VP's stand shows...Even most of the TCs in the dispora would prefer the present situation to the one pre 74....This is entirely due to the fact that the GCs are in total denial of the TC predicament pre 74...The trauma sufered by the TC community during the 50s and 60s has left a truly big emotional scar...Nothing has been done to heal this,and to promote understanding and trust....When I point this out I get accused of trying to justify the events of 74 and the aftermath...when I tell people the average TC had gained little from 74 and lost a lot,I get accused of exaggeration...Literally 10s of thousands of TCs (myself included) left between 1963 and 74,mostly for England but some further afield)...These people only remember the bad times in Cyprus...They and their decendants see Turkey as their true saviour,and no amount of talk about democracy or the EU club will change their minds...About time the GCs grasped this simple fact...

Well said Bir totally agree, unfortunately GCs do not have the mentality to grasp the reality inf ront of them as ti does not suit their national cause.

[Oracle]

Of the entire population from the census in 2006 approximately one in six individuals was a Turkish immigrant arriving in the TRNC between 2002-05 (4,110, 7,993, 13,448 and 18,408 Turkish immigrants for 2002, 2003, 2004 and 2005 respectively within a total population of ~255,000). To put this in perspective it would be the same as finding out that the current UK population of 60 million had within it 10 million immigrants (all from one neighbouring nation) who had arrived in those same four years!

Look at the rate of increase in those numbers - it is almost exponential! Is this continuing? If it has then TCs must be a minority in the TRNC!

Talisker,there is no doubt whatsoever that the TCs are now a minority,probably by 5 to 1,in the North...Thankfully not all the settlers have been naturalised,but enough have been to decide the outcome of any election or referandum...But not all TCs see this as a problem,as VP's stand shows...Even most of the TCs in the dispora would prefer the present situation to the one pre 74....This is entirely due to the fact that the GCs are in total denial of the TC predicament pre 74...The trauma sufered by the TC community during the 50s and 60s has left a truly big emotional scar...Nothing has been done to heal this,and to promote understanding and trust....When I point this out I get accused of trying to justify the events of 74 and the aftermath...when I tell people the average TC had gained little from 74 and lost a lot,I get accused of exaggeration...Literally 10s of thousands of TCs (myself included) left between 1963 and 74,mostly for England but some further afield)...These people only remember the bad times in Cyprus...They and their decendants see Turkey as their true saviour,and no amount of talk about democracy or the EU club will change their minds...About time the GCs grasped this simple fact...

And TCs are in denial about the exorbitant gains they had, ruling us right up to 1963, and then setting about enforcing Turkey to continue this by invasion and now occupation whereby unfair stolen gains have been restored to the TCs.

I am sure Talisker is well aware of the similarities of the tyrannous minority of TCs to those of the white colonialist Masters of South Africa who enslaved the natives. Bir, you are using the same tactics to prolong your unfair hold over our island ...

[BirKibrisli]

Of the entire population from the census in 2006 approximately one in six individuals was a Turkish immigrant arriving in the TRNC between 2002-05 (4,110, 7,993, 13,448 and 18,408 Turkish immigrants for 2002, 2003, 2004 and 2005 respectively within a total population of ~255,000). To put this in perspective it would be the same as finding out that the current UK population of 60 million had within it 10 million immigrants (all from one neighbouring nation) who had arrived in those same four years!

Look at the rate of increase in those numbers - it is almost exponential! Is this continuing? If it has then TCs must be a minority in the TRNC!

Talisker,there is no doubt whatsoever that the TCs are now a minority,probably by 5 to 1,in the North...Thankfully not all the settlers have been naturalised,but enough have been to decide the outcome of any election or referandum...But not all TCs see this as a problem,as VP's stand shows...Even most of the TCs in the dispora would prefer the present situation to the one pre 74....This is entirely due to the fact that the GCs are in total denial of the TC predicament pre 74...The trauma sufered by the TC community during the 50s and 60s has left a truly big emotional scar...Nothing has been done to heal this,and to promote understanding and trust....When I point this out I get accused of trying to justify the events of 74 and the aftermath...when I tell people the average TC had gained little from 74 and lost a lot,I get accused of exaggeration...Literally 10s of thousands of TCs (myself included) left between 1963 and 74,mostly for England but some further afield)...These people only remember the bad times in Cyprus...They and their decendants see Turkey as their true saviour,and no amount of talk about democracy or the EU club will change their minds...About time the GCs grasped this simple fact...

And TCs are in denial about the exorbitant gains they had, ruling us right up to 1963, and then setting about enforcing Turkey to continue this by invasion and now occupation whereby unfair stolen gains have been restored to the TCs.

I am sure Talisker is well aware of the similarities of the tyrannous minority of TCs to those of the white colonialist Masters of South Africa who enslaved the natives. Bir, you are using the same tactics to prolong your unfair hold over our island ...

Oracle,you are indeed deluded if you think the TCs ruled the GCs till 1963...Your condition is more serious that I thought... Everything was tilted 70-30 % towards the GCs,but even that wasnt enough for you...You had to have complete control over the TCs...And you continue with your overgeneralisations amd mind readings and catastrophising in this post...I now realise your condition is hopeless...Not even psychotherapy will do you any good...You are unfortunately a basket case...