Cyprus-Forum.com

[DT.]

No. They were university students given a crash course in soldiering.They were students. Period. It is fact. My Biology and Geography teahers are still alive and suffer the effect of that little episode by the brave GC NG.

Now you are heading nearer the truth ...

They had stopped being students! They had military training! They were soldiers at the time they invaded/attacked Cyprus to aid Turkey.

Now fuck off from wasting my time!

No they had not stopped being students. They came to aid ther TC friends and went back and finished their education and two became teachers. No go and do something useful like "58" idle cira.

No difference from GC soldiers. Do their service and then carry on with their studies. Would you not call someone in the NG a soldier because next month he'll be in Edinburgh studying marine biology?

[Oracle]

No. They were university students given a crash course in soldiering.They were students. Period. It is fact. My Biology and Geography teahers are still alive and suffer the effect of that little episode by the brave GC NG.

Now you are heading nearer the truth ...

They had stopped being students! They had military training! They were soldiers at the time they invaded/attacked Cyprus to aid Turkey.

Now fuck off from wasting my time!

No they had not stopped being students. They came to aid ther TC friends and went back and finished their education and two became teachers. No go and do something useful like "58" idle cira.

No difference from GC soldiers. Do their service and then carry on with their studies. Would you not call someone in the NG a soldier because next month he'll be in Edinburgh studying marine biology?

Exactly! Thanks DT.

"Students" misshimou .... next they'll be telling us they were still in nappies!

[DT.]

You think Cyprus is like ANY country would be under occupation...????
You are forgetting that for a very sizeable minority Cyprus is not under occupation but liberated...The force you call the occupational force is for them the force which saved them from certain extinction....But of course they don't matter to you....They didnt matter when you were calling for Enosis in the 50s....They didn't matter during the 3 years of joint government....They didn't matter between 1963-74....And they don't matter now....They are the despised minority,the Ottoman remnants which should be isolated and embargoes till they go away and leave Cyprus to their rightful owners??? Is that is??? Is that your liberal,democratic,progressive thinking??? True apartheid in Cyprus was between 1963 and 74....The TCs were stripped of all political power,isolated,and left to rot in their own chook pens....Where was the very admirable GC sense of democracy and human rights then,Oracle???
Who is beeing a bigggg hypocrite now???? And who has racist talk about the Turks and the TCs?????

Bir,

i know that what you write is generally affected by also who you write it to but a while ago, this is what a Cypriot once said on this forum.

Viewpoint,i know my ideas are utopian to you,but to the rest of the world they come under common human decency.I cannot have peace if it is built on other people's misery.I don't want to live in a state built on stolen land,guarded by 40,000 troops.I don't want to live in a pretend land,where we pretend we are masters of our own destiny,while we are run like sheep from Turkey.Peace can only be built on TRUTH and Justice,more utopian notions for you I guess.Historical fact: in Cyprus Tcs are a minority,a sizeable minority.Why can't we accept that,take off our nationalistic cape,and learn to live like Cypriots with our GC brothers and sisters.We might even learn to like them or love them one day,and forget that we were the leftovers from an imperial past.You know the Turkish saying "Gunesh balchikla sivanmaz" (You cant cover the Sun with plaster!),well we can't cover the truth forever either.We have to face it,learn to live with it.If the cost is to be killed by someone like the notorios Wake up,well that will be an honourable death,though i would prefer an hounorable life.Think about it.

You have put your finger on it,DT...I am playing devil's advocate...My basic beliefs and principles have not changed....I am just sick and tired of continuous racist and hateful attacks on Turks and the TCs....And I have accepted defeat in the sense that I know what I really want for Cyprus will not be achieved in my lifetime...If ever...So what is the point of insisting on it??? We must find a compromise solution which will reflect the realities of our sorry past...We cannot wish our past away,.pretend those terrible things didnt happen...We cannot ignore the emotional scars caused by the trauma to both communities...We need to be realistic about what is achievable...My community is bleeding to death squeezed between the GCs and Turkey,but that is not how the majority of TCs see it...They do not have my attachment to all things Cypriot...Most are quite happy to assimilate withing the big Turkish sea,if it means being safe,feeling comfortable and relaxed with the world...I am not prepared any more to risk the very existence of the TCs,in order to pursue a dream which will never be achieved...I wish we could all wake up tomorrow as Cypriots,and never give a second thought to out ethnic background or to the tragedies of our recent past....But that will not happen...I am adjusting muyself to this reality,while giving some people their own medicine back,to see how they like it....

I see your logic Bir, however why should the ones that desire a Cyprus united have to surrender their beliefs, their principles? Especially when the majority of this island is for it? The GC's want a united island, the TC's (like you) that can see beyond their turkish background wish for a united CYprus...so whats the problem? Thats easily 90% of this island.

Who exactly are we accomodating here? The 10% of this island that think differently? Turkey?

When a large majority of the GC's will accept RIGHT NOW, TODAY a BBF without the racist segragationist caveats requested by Turkey why are you suspicious of the GC aims? I'm not telling you to go for a unitary state that you, me and 90% of this island will go for, I'm saying a BBF without the apartheid seasoning.

Why are we still wondering about GC motives here?

[BirKibrisli]

Why do you continue to excuse Turkey for the atrocities it has shelled on GCs?

Your euphemism in calling Turkish soldiers as "students" is laughably audacious and another "fact" in your catalogue of pro-Turkish revised history.

So, NO ... OXI .... I do not accept your version of this story as "fact" especially since the Napalm and bombs they rained over Paphos were at some considerable distance from Kokkina and precisely over GC villages

But whatever, the past, the many atrocities enacted on us by Turkey and your continual denials and excuses, we are living with the CONTINUATION of those evils, racially stigmatising the GCs and prohibiting them from returning to their homes.

So, whatever you say Bir, I forgive you, personally, because you say you are ill ....

So, let's move this problem into a neutral sphere where we forget GCs and TCs and do the neutrally right thing by international law and order, UNDHC, and allow Cyprus a chance at being a fully functioning Democracy under the auspice

Oracle,if I had any doubts that you re mentally ill,they have all been removed...

They were young TC students studying in Turkey,given a 3 week crash course in handling weapons and deposited in the kokkina area,God knows for what reason...(My belief is that Inonu who was then PM wanted them off the streets as they were protesting daily about their families being in danger of being massacred by the GCs)...3 of them were my first cousins...Another one is now my brother -in-law...The Uncle of Ozdil Nami,Talat's present chief negotiator (also called Ozdil Nami) died there...They are our family friends....You are in total denial of the facts because you do not want to even consider that the GCs could ahve possibly done anything wrong in this conflict..it doesnt fit in with your sick mind's narrative...

Where did I say to you that I was ill???When did I ask your forgiveness???
You are really deluded,past the point of any help...I feel sorry for you...But I can't help you unless you want to be helped...I repeat,letting off steam on this Forum is no substitute for professional therapy...Do yourself and us a favour,get some soon....

[EPSILON]

No. They were university students given a crash course in soldiering.They were students. Period. It is fact. My Biology and Geography teahers are still alive and suffer the effect of that little episode by the brave GC NG.

Now you are heading nearer the truth ...

They had stopped being students! They had military training! They were soldiers at the time they invaded/attacked Cyprus to aid Turkey.

Now fuck off from wasting my time!

No they had not stopped being students. They came to aid ther TC friends and went back and finished their education and two became teachers. No go and do something useful like "58" idle cira.

No difference from GC soldiers. Do their service and then carry on with their studies. Would you not call someone in the NG a soldier because next month he'll be in Edinburgh studying marine biology?

give a name-my son is there studying Molecular biology

[BirKibrisli]

You think Cyprus is like ANY country would be under occupation...????
You are forgetting that for a very sizeable minority Cyprus is not under occupation but liberated...The force you call the occupational force is for them the force which saved them from certain extinction....But of course they don't matter to you....They didnt matter when you were calling for Enosis in the 50s....They didn't matter during the 3 years of joint government....They didn't matter between 1963-74....And they don't matter now....They are the despised minority,the Ottoman remnants which should be isolated and embargoes till they go away and leave Cyprus to their rightful owners??? Is that is??? Is that your liberal,democratic,progressive thinking??? True apartheid in Cyprus was between 1963 and 74....The TCs were stripped of all political power,isolated,and left to rot in their own chook pens....Where was the very admirable GC sense of democracy and human rights then,Oracle???
Who is beeing a bigggg hypocrite now???? And who has racist talk about the Turks and the TCs?????

Bir,

i know that what you write is generally affected by also who you write it to but a while ago, this is what a Cypriot once said on this forum.

Viewpoint,i know my ideas are utopian to you,but to the rest of the world they come under common human decency.I cannot have peace if it is built on other people's misery.I don't want to live in a state built on stolen land,guarded by 40,000 troops.I don't want to live in a pretend land,where we pretend we are masters of our own destiny,while we are run like sheep from Turkey.Peace can only be built on TRUTH and Justice,more utopian notions for you I guess.Historical fact: in Cyprus Tcs are a minority,a sizeable minority.Why can't we accept that,take off our nationalistic cape,and learn to live like Cypriots with our GC brothers and sisters.We might even learn to like them or love them one day,and forget that we were the leftovers from an imperial past.You know the Turkish saying "Gunesh balchikla sivanmaz" (You cant cover the Sun with plaster!),well we can't cover the truth forever either.We have to face it,learn to live with it.If the cost is to be killed by someone like the notorios Wake up,well that will be an honourable death,though i would prefer an hounorable life.Think about it.

You have put your finger on it,DT...I am playing devil's advocate...My basic beliefs and principles have not changed....I am just sick and tired of continuous racist and hateful attacks on Turks and the TCs....And I have accepted defeat in the sense that I know what I really want for Cyprus will not be achieved in my lifetime...If ever...So what is the point of insisting on it??? We must find a compromise solution which will reflect the realities of our sorry past...We cannot wish our past away,.pretend those terrible things didnt happen...We cannot ignore the emotional scars caused by the trauma to both communities...We need to be realistic about what is achievable...My community is bleeding to death squeezed between the GCs and Turkey,but that is not how the majority of TCs see it...They do not have my attachment to all things Cypriot...Most are quite happy to assimilate withing the big Turkish sea,if it means being safe,feeling comfortable and relaxed with the world...I am not prepared any more to risk the very existence of the TCs,in order to pursue a dream which will never be achieved...I wish we could all wake up tomorrow as Cypriots,and never give a second thought to out ethnic background or to the tragedies of our recent past....But that will not happen...I am adjusting muyself to this reality,while giving some people their own medicine back,to see how they like it....

I see your logic Bir, however why should the ones that desire a Cyprus united have to surrender their beliefs, their principles? Especially when the majority of this island is for it? The GC's want a united island, the TC's (like you) that can see beyond their turkish background wish for a united CYprus...so whats the problem? Thats easily 90% of this island.

Who exactly are we accomodating here? The 10% of this island that think differently? Turkey?

When a large majority of the GC's will accept RIGHT NOW, TODAY a BBF without the racist segragationist caveats requested by Turkey why are you suspicious of the GC aims? I'm not telling you to go for a unitary state that you, me and 90% of this island will go for, I'm saying a BBF without the apartheid seasoning.

Why are we still wondering about GC motives here?

Because people like Piratis keep spilling the beans...They openly talk about their aim which is to eventually have a unitary state where GCs will rule supreme...This is a nightmare to the average TC...Because of the events of the 50s and 60s,especially the period 63-74....Especially when the GCs refuse to acknowledge their wrongs,and make ammends for them...I just know how important it is for the TCs not to ever again be in the same situation...You cannot appreciate this because you (I mean the GCs not you personally) never really came to terms with that period...Makarios was slowly but surely geting rid of the TCs,by subtle political and economic pressure...He was practising ethnic cleansing...This is why the TCs will never buy your (the GCs) well intentioned appeals for democracy and human rights...And as long as you deny it,the TCs will always suspect the GC motivation..This is how a community's collective consciousness works...I know you are having trouble getting your mind around this concept....Because you too (and I consider you one of the most objective,sensible and honourable persons on this Forum) are the product of the GC education and social system...They fed you bullshit all this time,like they fed the TCs bullshit to get them ready to turn against the GCs...But the result is the same...The Tcs are too cautious now,perhaps over cautious but that doesnt change anything...They will not acept ,at this stage, to tell Turkey to remove herself from Cyprus,and give up her right of guarantee which is still valid under international agreement..The price for a solutiion for the GCs is to accept this,and make the necessary compromise to get us over this hurdle... Lisen to what Bananiot is telling you...His approach is the approach of a very wise and brave man...If you don't you will be cutting your nose to spite your face...The TCs will be assimilated into the Turkish society,and only a few thousand of them, like myself, will ever lament the death of our identity...The rest will consider themselves returned "Home"....But the cost to the GCs will be the loss of 36% of the island in the immediate future...In the long future,with the changing of the present world order,the GCs risk loosing it all...I say this with sadness and regret...

[Oracle]

... .They openly talk about their aim which is to eventually have a unitary state where GCs will rule supreme...

It's not about any one ethnic group "ruling" ... that is what you have always done/do.

It's about everyone having an equal voice!

You like neither democracy nor GCs outnumbering you. Those are the facts and we are not about to have a mass suicide to reach your (declining) numbers just to please you!

[YFred]

No. They were university students given a crash course in soldiering.They were students. Period. It is fact. My Biology and Geography teahers are still alive and suffer the effect of that little episode by the brave GC NG.

Now you are heading nearer the truth ...

They had stopped being students! They had military training! They were soldiers at the time they invaded/attacked Cyprus to aid Turkey.

Now fuck off from wasting my time!

No they had not stopped being students. They came to aid ther TC friends and went back and finished their education and two became teachers. No go and do something useful like "58" idle cira.

No difference from GC soldiers. Do their service and then carry on with their studies. Would you not call someone in the NG a soldier because next month he'll be in Edinburgh studying marine biology?

Is it really the same? Was he taken out of his classes, put through the mill for some days and dropped in the middle of a firing range surrounded by the enemy. I expect a higher standard of comparison from certain members.
Mishimu my back side be ciracik.

[DT.]

No. They were university students given a crash course in soldiering.They were students. Period. It is fact. My Biology and Geography teahers are still alive and suffer the effect of that little episode by the brave GC NG.

Now you are heading nearer the truth ...

They had stopped being students! They had military training! They were soldiers at the time they invaded/attacked Cyprus to aid Turkey.

Now fuck off from wasting my time!

No they had not stopped being students. They came to aid ther TC friends and went back and finished their education and two became teachers. No go and do something useful like "58" idle cira.

No difference from GC soldiers. Do their service and then carry on with their studies. Would you not call someone in the NG a soldier because next month he'll be in Edinburgh studying marine biology?

Is it really the same? Was he taken out of his classes, put through the mill for some days and dropped in the middle of a firing range surrounded by the enemy. I expect a higher standard of comparison from certain members.
Mishimu my back side be ciracik.

FUnny thing happened to my cousin Nicos, was in the army a total of 2 weeks when your planes started bombing the Cypriot towns and countryside in 74. He went straight to war. Was he a student or a soldier?

[EPSILON]

No. They were university students given a crash course in soldiering.They were students. Period. It is fact. My Biology and Geography teahers are still alive and suffer the effect of that little episode by the brave GC NG.

Now you are heading nearer the truth ...

They had stopped being students! They had military training! They were soldiers at the time they invaded/attacked Cyprus to aid Turkey.

Now fuck off from wasting my time!

No they had not stopped being students. They came to aid ther TC friends and went back and finished their education and two became teachers. No go and do something useful like "58" idle cira.

No difference from GC soldiers. Do their service and then carry on with their studies. Would you not call someone in the NG a soldier because next month he'll be in Edinburgh studying marine biology?

Is it really the same? Was he taken out of his classes, put through the mill for some days and dropped in the middle of a firing range surrounded by the enemy. I expect a higher standard of comparison from certain members.
Mishimu my back side be ciracik.

FUnny thing happened to my cousin Nicos, was in the army a total of 2 weeks when your planes started bombing the Cypriot towns and countryside in 74. He went straight to war. Was he a student or a soldier?

he was just a "malakas: like i was playing and risk my/his life for Karamanlis and Etzevit games