Cyprus-Forum.com

[cyprusgrump]

1) Lots of reasons that I have explained time and time again but for the benefit of new members.........supermarkets offering better deals is one of them. Maybe, just maybe, the smoke thing hasn't helped but it is certainly not the one reason.

Nothing dramatic happened to the British economy in July 2007 and yet it was in this month that the rot set in for all the pub companies. The industry has been suffering from higher taxes and cheap off license sales for years but none of this can explain the massive acceleration in pub closures and bankruptcies since the smoking ban. The headlines in the financial pages of the newspapers tell their own story:

'Pubs giant slumps as smoke ban saps sales' The Evening Standard (November 2007)

'Pub beer flattened by smoking ban' The Guardian (January 2008)

'Smoking ban begins to bite into brewers' profits' LDP Business (February 2008)

'Wetherspoon chokes on smoking ban' The Herald (March 2008)

The financial analysts Goldman Sachs - hardly a "pro smoking organisation'' - recently stated that the smoking ban has reduced average pub profits by 10%. Scottish & Newcastle, the UK's largest brewery estimated a 8% fall in beer sales in January and since then beers sales in the UK have fallen to their lowest level since the Great Depression. But most devastating to the ASH version of events are the statistics for pub closures which accelerated dramatically in 2007. The trade journal The Morning Advertiser blamed this squarely on "the savage impact of the smoking ban and spiralling costs" and the figures require little comment:

2005: 2 a week

2006: 4 a week

2007: 27 a week

This seven-fold increase in pub closures is unprecedented in recent British history and although the smoking ban is not the industry's only enemy, the evidence that it has been severely damaged by the smoke-free legislation is now indisputable.

Source

[miltiades]

Z4, Milti and 1 or 2 others need to calm down and see the bigger picture. I dont always agree with Grump but he he makes a very valid argument (if you care to read the link he provided) you MAY get a view that you may not agree with BUT it does allow other people to live their lives the way THEY choose. If you dont like the smoke - avoid it -if I smoke how do I avoid you???
Love & Best Wishes for a smokey New Year,

Brian

Worldwide smoking has been recognized as an unhealthy unsocial habit that directly interferes with the right of the non addicts to enjoy breathing in air without having to inhale tobacco smell.
Worldwide that is apart from third world countries .
Cyprus is NOT a third world country , that is why it has recognized the damage that this nasty smell act does not only to addicts but also to passive sufferers.
Some think that the reason pubs in the UK are closing down is purely because of the ban on smoking ignoring the fact that many other industries where the ban on smoking has no relevance whatsoever are also pulling down shutters , the recession has inflicted great pain to all businesses .
There is not an argument for continuing with the present dated and "thirdwordish" habit.
Cypriot and others must realize that their unhealthy smelly habit can not continue to be effecting those around them. Some say smoking now alcohol next !!! I drink every single day of the year a bottle of wine , on Sundays and when I'm feeling unwell two bottles. Neither those around me get intoxicated and neither does anyone has ever suffered from the effects of sitting next to someone who is having a glass of wine.I do of course realize that there are irresponsible drinkers and there are also those that drink themselves stupid , can not hold their drink and become abusive and in many cases violent , mostly the young Brit who goes out on a Saturday night with one purpose only , to get sloshed.
Finally , yesterday I was up in Theletra Paphos .My self and my brother had a coffee in the local kafenio , out of 11 people excluding my self and brother only 3 were smoking. I asked them directly how the ban would affect them, no problem they replied 9 months in the year we sit outside .

Couple of things.

I have a friend that runs a restaurant in Pissouri - most of his customers are 'workers' who come for a coffee and a smoke, some lunchtime trade too. He is very worried about how the ban will affect him.

Secondly, reference alcohol. Across the EU the same tactics that were used to 'denormalise' smoking are being turned on alcohol. Even though laws are available to control 'antisocial behaviour', new draconian powers are being introduced to restrict drinking. Including drinking outside by the way and people enjoying a glass of wine with a picnic are being targeted.

Millions of Euros of our money are being spent on advertising and 'research' by government funded 'charities' to 'prove' that drinking is bad for you. Almost every day in the UK there is some new research announcement or government statement on booze.

Example. In the UK they have reduced the size of the 'unit', an arbitrary measurement of the strength of drinks so the statistics show we are suddenly all drinking more when in fact alcohol consumption is reducing.

Lastly, if you'd told a smoker five years ago that they'd be banned from bars and restaurants they would have thought you crazy! But is has happened - smokers sleep walked into the ban because they didn't believe it could ever happen.

We need to oppose the ban because drinkers like you and me are next on the list.

Drinking excessively is bad , there again drinking in a restaurant does not in any way or form interfere with diners who do not drink. This is the crux of the matter.
There is no justification for inhaling tar and blowing it out, its unhealthy , millions die from smoke related deceases , cancer of the lungs one of them , it is an addictive substance that is now archaic, prevalent amongst people from the third world and lower class people mostly from other parts of the globe.
There is an imperative need to curb this cancer from the Cypriot society , it appears to me that all Cypriots are born destined to become addicts.Discourage this horrid addiction by restricting the public areas where this smelly habit takes place .

[cyprusgrump]

Drinking excessively is bad , there again drinking in a restaurant does not in any way or form interfere with diners who do not drink. This is the crux of the matter.

I have to disagree with you...

The EU is clearly committed to restricting alcohol.

Smoking was never banned for heath reasons (which is why MPs excluded themselves from the ban).

Alcohol is next on the list to be denormalised across the EU. In the UK it has already started, outside drinking bans, the government declaring that children should never sample alcohol. All based on biased 'research' funded by the taxpayer.

They want a minimum cost per 'unit' to curb antisocial behaviours although this will obviously apply to all drinkers.

Meanwhile the government has its own subsidised bars and booze purchased on expenses with no receipt required.

They want separate checkouts in supermarkets so filthy drinkers can be identified.

They have brought in bans in vast parts of the country forbidding the consumption of alcohol outside. People are having their wine confiscated at picnics.

So, it is not the crux of the matter at all. It is not about health, it is about control and restricting your liberty.

[kafenes]

Z4, Milti and 1 or 2 others need to calm down and see the bigger picture. I dont always agree with Grump but he he makes a very valid argument (if you care to read the link he provided) you MAY get a view that you may not agree with BUT it does allow other people to live their lives the way THEY choose. If you dont like the smoke - avoid it -if I smoke how do I avoid you???
Love & Best Wishes for a smokey New Year,

Brian

Worldwide smoking has been recognized as an unhealthy unsocial habit that directly interferes with the right of the non addicts to enjoy breathing in air without having to inhale tobacco smell.
Worldwide that is apart from third world countries .
Cyprus is NOT a third world country , that is why it has recognized the damage that this nasty smell act does not only to addicts but also to passive sufferers.
Some think that the reason pubs in the UK are closing down is purely because of the ban on smoking ignoring the fact that many other industries where the ban on smoking has no relevance whatsoever are also pulling down shutters , the recession has inflicted great pain to all businesses .
There is not an argument for continuing with the present dated and "thirdwordish" habit.
Cypriot and others must realize that their unhealthy smelly habit can not continue to be effecting those around them. Some say smoking now alcohol next !!! I drink every single day of the year a bottle of wine , on Sundays and when I'm feeling unwell two bottles. Neither those around me get intoxicated and neither does anyone has ever suffered from the effects of sitting next to someone who is having a glass of wine.I do of course realize that there are irresponsible drinkers and there are also those that drink themselves stupid , can not hold their drink and become abusive and in many cases violent , mostly the young Brit who goes out on a Saturday night with one purpose only , to get sloshed.
Finally , yesterday I was up in Theletra Paphos .My self and my brother had a coffee in the local kafenio , out of 11 people excluding my self and brother only 3 were smoking. I asked them directly how the ban would affect them, no problem they replied 9 months in the year we sit outside .

Couple of things.

I have a friend that runs a restaurant in Pissouri - most of his customers are 'workers' who come for a coffee and a smoke, some lunchtime trade too. He is very worried about how the ban will affect him.

Secondly, reference alcohol. Across the EU the same tactics that were used to 'denormalise' smoking are being turned on alcohol. Even though laws are available to control 'antisocial behaviour', new draconian powers are being introduced to restrict drinking. Including drinking outside by the way and people enjoying a glass of wine with a picnic are being targeted.

Millions of Euros of our money are being spent on advertising and 'research' by government funded 'charities' to 'prove' that drinking is bad for you. Almost every day in the UK there is some new research announcement or government statement on booze.

Example. In the UK they have reduced the size of the 'unit', an arbitrary measurement of the strength of drinks so the statistics show we are suddenly all drinking more when in fact alcohol consumption is reducing.

Lastly, if you'd told a smoker five years ago that they'd be banned from bars and restaurants they would have thought you crazy! But is has happened - smokers sleep walked into the ban because they didn't believe it could ever happen.

We need to oppose the ban because drinkers like you and me are next on the list.

Drinking excessively is bad , there again drinking in a restaurant does not in any way or form interfere with diners who do not drink. This is the crux of the matter. There is no justification for inhaling tar and blowing it out, its unhealthy , millions die from smoke related deceases , cancer of the lungs one of them , it is an addictive substance that is now archaic, prevalent amongst people from the third world and lower class people mostly from other parts of the globe.
There is an imperative need to curb this cancer from the Cypriot society , it appears to me that all Cypriots are born destined to become addicts.Discourage this horrid addiction by restricting the public areas where this smelly habit takes place .

How many innocent people have died on the roads from drunk drivers? I say many more then passive smoking. How many people have died from excessive drinking? Well I know first hand as I lost by brother just over a year ago and also look at statistics of eastern European countries. Not to mention how many families have been ruined and how many wives have been beaten up because of alcohol addiction. How many children been neglected as a result of addicted parents? First it was the drink limit and breath analyzers and next it will be banning it all together. Drinking is a quick way to give oneself a false sense of confidence. It is for the week character who thinks it will help to intermingle with society. BTW Milti, there is nothing wrong with people from 'third world' countries. They are just as human as you and me but less fortunate.

[denizaksulu]

I consider the Cypriots lucky that possibly 10 months of the year they can enjoy restaurant food in the open (would that be allowed?). Cant say that about the poor sods in the UK.

They should take this opportunity to re-assess their addictive habit and perhaps cut down.

[cyprusgrump]

I consider the Cypriots lucky that possibly 10 months of the year they can enjoy restaurant food in the open (would that be allowed?). Cant say that about the poor sods in the UK.

They should take this opportunity to re-assess their addictive habit and perhaps cut down.

They are trying to ban smoking in all open spaces in the UK so you wouldn't be allowed to eat outside and smoke.

As for giving up, it is having the opposite effect...

The smoking ban has made it highly improbable that I will ever give up smoking. The real purpose of the ban has not been to protect non-smokers, but to 'encourage' smokers to give up smoking by making it illegal to smoke more or less anywhere. And this isn't 'encouragement' at all: it's naked coercion. Anyone who gave up smoking prior to the smoking ban did so of their own volition. But anyone who gave up after the smoking ban did so because they were forced to. Or they could never be entirely sure whether they were doing what they wanted to do, or what a coercive healthist state was forcing them to do. I am no longer sure that I can freely choose to give up smoking. And as a result I'm not sure that I could be quite as smug about my "iron self-control" in giving up smoking, or sneer quite so readily at the addicts looking for their "fix" outside, if I couldn't be sure that it was really my own free choice to quit smoking.

Source

[FragnaticDeath]

What I would prefer. Is adding a 50% VAT on those packs of cigarettes, make them cost 10 euros a packet and I would love to see those teenagers try and buy packets of cigarettes just to look cool. Watch parents quitting because they realised they dont have 5000 euros each year to spend on cigarettes

Banning smoking is a bit extreme but I do prefer what I said above.

[Toffee]

Z4, Milti and 1 or 2 others need to calm down and see the bigger picture. I dont always agree with Grump but he he makes a very valid argument (if you care to read the link he provided) you MAY get a view that you may not agree with BUT it does allow other people to live their lives the way THEY choose. If you dont like the smoke - avoid it -if I smoke how do I avoid you???
Love & Best Wishes for a smokey New Year,

Brian

Worldwide smoking has been recognized as an unhealthy unsocial habit that directly interferes with the right of the non addicts to enjoy breathing in air without having to inhale tobacco smell.
Worldwide that is apart from third world countries .
Cyprus is NOT a third world country , that is why it has recognized the damage that this nasty smell act does not only to addicts but also to passive sufferers.
Some think that the reason pubs in the UK are closing down is purely because of the ban on smoking ignoring the fact that many other industries where the ban on smoking has no relevance whatsoever are also pulling down shutters , the recession has inflicted great pain to all businesses .
There is not an argument for continuing with the present dated and "thirdwordish" habit.
Cypriot and others must realize that their unhealthy smelly habit can not continue to be effecting those around them. Some say smoking now alcohol next !!! I drink every single day of the year a bottle of wine , on Sundays and when I'm feeling unwell two bottles. Neither those around me get intoxicated and neither does anyone has ever suffered from the effects of sitting next to someone who is having a glass of wine.I do of course realize that there are irresponsible drinkers and there are also those that drink themselves stupid , can not hold their drink and become abusive and in many cases violent , mostly the young Brit who goes out on a Saturday night with one purpose only , to get sloshed.
Finally , yesterday I was up in Theletra Paphos .My self and my brother had a coffee in the local kafenio , out of 11 people excluding my self and brother only 3 were smoking. I asked them directly how the ban would affect them, no problem they replied 9 months in the year we sit outside .

All very well but you do make assumptions based om "information" you have received from others. Have you ever questioned this?? If not , why not?

[cyprusgrump]

What I would prefer. Is adding a 50% VAT on those packs of cigarettes, make them cost 10 euros a packet and I would love to see those teenagers try and buy packets of cigarettes just to look cool. Watch parents quitting because they realised they dont have 5000 euros each year to spend on cigarettes

Banning smoking is a bit extreme but I do prefer what I said above.

Increasing tax rates often inversely affects tax revenue.

Put simply, as tax increases people increasingly find ways to avoid it.

In the UK there is already a massive 'black market' in cigarettes as people buy from abroad or stolen product 'down the pub'.

So the affect of your proposal would be that people still smoked but the government lost the massive tax revenue from selling cigarettes.

[FragnaticDeath]

well banning it won't lead to that also?