Cyprus-Forum.com

[insan]

Article 10 of the TRNC constitution was a mistake.

Maybe that's why it is being refered as "temporary 10th article of TRNC constitution"...

It is "temporary" because your whole set-up is temporary!

True... until the last round of talks fails and we make it permenant!

You don't make anything "permanent" little eastern Turkish boy!

Democracy has a few thousand years of acceptability which you would have to erase first.

O, let's be realistic... it strongly seems to me that the current round of talks will fail...

What will happen then? EU would declare war on Turkey, defeat her and "liberate" Cyprus or look for other options to peacefully solve the problem? Or u expect the talks last forever by running around the same circles and go nowhere?

[Malapapa]

The EU, which includes Cyprus, has no other option but to continue to look for options to peacefully resolve the issue in a way that ensures EU citizens, north and south, secure rights and freedoms afforded to them by EU membership. Likewise Turkey, assuming it still has aspirations to join the EU one day.

[Oracle]

Article 10 of the TRNC constitution was a mistake.

Maybe that's why it is being refered as "temporary 10th article of TRNC constitution"...

It is "temporary" because your whole set-up is temporary!

True... until the last round of talks fails and we make it permenant!

You don't make anything "permanent" little eastern Turkish boy!

Democracy has a few thousand years of acceptability which you would have to erase first.

O, let's be realistic... it strongly seems to me that the current round of talks will fail...

What will happen then? EU would declare war on Turkey, defeat her and "liberate" Cyprus or look for other options to peacefully solve the problem? Or u expect the talks last forever by running around the same circles and go nowhere?

The tide is turning, insan, and all the liberal Brits I converse with are rallying round freeing Cyprus from the Turkish tyranny even if it means war, because as far as they are concerned, their troops are already dying for freedom for non-affiliated Islamic countries like Iraq and Afghanistan so why should they not die for freeing a fellow democratic EU country like Cyprus?

Turkey has to re-appraise its position because it is seen for the demanding belligerent expansionist country which its presence in Cyprus is proof inviolable.

[Expatkiwi]

The Louroujina Salient really has to be given up by the Turkish Military. Politically it shows who is in active control of the TRNC, and it serves only to "stick-it" to the RoCy (kind of what Gitmo does to Cuba). Article 10 aside, if the TRNC's own citizens are stopped from visiting a part of their country by another country's armed forces, it really makes the TRNC's claims to independence ring all the more hollow...

[bill cobbett]

The Louroujina Salient really has to be given up by the Turkish Military. Politically it shows who is in active control of the TRNC, and it serves only to "stick-it" to the RoCy (kind of what Gitmo does to Cuba). Article 10 aside, if the TRNC's own citizens are stopped from visiting a part of their country by another country's armed forces, it really makes the TRNC's claims to independence ring all the more hollow...

Our dear Expat, with regret have to say that you must be a dimwit of the highest order, if as you do, you limit your support and sympathies to the Louricigiakakkopolis with this single account of a CY being prevented from visiting her old villlage by the TA with no ref to tens of thousands banned from their old homes.

You display the moral integrity of a cess-pit mate.(apologies to cess-pits everywhere).

[Expatkiwi]

Bill Cobbet, looking at your avatar, you display the moral integrity of a peeping tom! As a person with knowledge of politio-military matters, I am just saying that the salient is not in the TRNC's best interests. Now, if you believe the spiel from your government that TC's are free to move about in RoCy, then that woman would have no trouble visiting Louroujina, but from the gist of your rather caustic response, you'd say that she would not be able to visit if that village was under RoCy governance. Looks like you're making yourself out to be the idiot here... and you say that I have no moral integrity...

[miltiades]

The Louroujina Salient really has to be given up by the Turkish Military. Politically it shows who is in active control of the TRNC, and it serves only to "stick-it" to the RoCy (kind of what Gitmo does to Cuba). Article 10 aside, if the TRNC's own citizens are stopped from visiting a part of their country by another country's armed forces, it really makes the TRNC's claims to independence ring all the more hollow...

Expat , are you not missing the point here ?
The "trnc" has NEVER been anything but hollow. The entire world recognizes that the Turkish army is in charge and there has NEVER been any sort of recognition for this pseudo state. The T/Cs that I know , hundreds of them , do not want the Turkish army in Cyprus any more than they want the settlers. They have been duped by Turkey and not having anywhere else to go to , at least they think they haven't , they tolerate Turkey.
The truth of the matter is that the majority of T/Cs want nothing to do with the settlers , their culture or even their interpretation of their religion. The teachers unions are up in arms protesting against changes dictated by Turkey . The tide is running against Turkey , the people she claims she is protecting have become her pray.

[Tim Drayton]

Translation of an article from Afrika.

http://www.afrikagazetesi.net/modules.p ... e&sid=1166

This is the last straw. In Louroujina (Lurucina/ Akıncılar), even villagers cannot access their own houses without showing identity cards. Our citizen named Fetine Mehmet, who came home with her daughter and grandchild to spend New Year with her mother and father aged in their 90’s, was denied entry to Louroujina (Lurucina/ Akıncılar) by the military on the grounds that she did not have a TRNC identity card. The soldier who was inspecting identity cards at the entrance to the village, having telephoned his superior, denied the family permission to pass. Fetine Mehmet, who returned without seeing her 91 year old father and 89 year old mother, was put up by relatives in Nicosia. Louroujina (Lurucina/ Akıncılar), whose population has fallen to 300, is virtually under military siege. The villagers in this neglected village have been grappling with this problem for years.

Tim
What you posted is yesterdays news..there is a follow up to this story on today's Afrika.
Apparently Fetine Mehmet got offended by Afrika's article accusing the Turkish Army of not allowing her through and threatened to sue Afrika unless they made a public apology..
She has said "We have no problem with the Turkish army,They have done their duty (by not allowing them through without ID) they saved us from the GC's and we are grateful to them"

so today's Afrika headline was
Özür istediler,Zavallı Kıbrıslı

Thanks for that. You can't get TC newspapers in Limassol, so I have to rely on the Internet versions. Afrika posts the previous day's news on its website. An interesting development.

[Tim Drayton]

Bill Cobbet, looking at your avatar, you display the moral integrity of a peeping tom! As a person with knowledge of politio-military matters, I am just saying that the salient is not in the TRNC's best interests. Now, if you believe the spiel from your government that TC's are free to move about in RoCy, then that woman would have no trouble visiting Louroujina, but from the gist of your rather caustic response, you'd say that she would not be able to visit if that village was under RoCy governance. Looks like you're making yourself out to be the idiot here... and you say that I have no moral integrity...

TCs are free to move around the unoccupied part of the island. I believe the evidence of my own eyes, not any 'spiel'.

[Tim Drayton]

Article 10 of the TRNC constitution was a mistake.

Sorry? What does article 10 of the TRNC constitution have to do with anything?

Here it is quoted in the original, followed by my translation and the translation provided by the Office of the Ombudsman in the TRNC.

Original text

Temel Hakların Niteliği ve Korunması
Madde 10
(1) Herkes, kişiliğine bağlı, dokunulmaz, devredilmez, vazgeçilmez temel hak ve özgürlüklere sahiptir.
(2) Devlet, kişinin temel hak ve özgürlüklerini, kişi huzuru, sosyal adalet ve ukuk devleti ilkeleriyle bağdaşmayacak biçimde sınırlayan siyasal, ekonomik ve sosyal bütün engelleri kaldırır, insanın maddi ve manevi varlığının gelişmesi için gerekli koşulları hazırlar.
(3) Devletin yasama, yürütme ve yargı organları, kendi yetki sınırları içinde, bu Kısım kurallarının tam olarak uygulanmasını sağlamakla yükümlüdürler.

My translation

The Nature and Protection of Basic Rights
Article 10
(1) Everyone possesses inherent, fundamental rights and freedoms which are inviolable and inalienable.
(2) The state shall eliminate all such political, economic and social obstacles as restrict fundamental personal rights and freedoms in a manner which is incompatible with personal well-being, social justice and the principles of a law-based state, and shall prepare the necessary conditions for the development of human material and intangible wealth.
(3) The legislative, administrative and judicial organs of the state are required, within their own spheres of competence, to ensure that the provisions of this Section are implemented in full.

The translation by the Office of the Ombudsman

http://www.kktcombudsman.org/en/?op=anayasa

The Nature of Fundamental Rights and their Protection
Article 10
(1) Every person has, by virtue of his existence as an individual, personal fundamental rights and liberties which cannot be alienated, transferred or renounced.
(2) The State shall remove all political, economic and social obstacles which restrict the fundamental rights and liberties of the individual in a manner incompatible with the individual's security, social justice and the principles of the State being subject to the rule of law; it shall prepare the necessary conditions for the development of the individual's material and moral existence.
(3) The legislative, executive and judicial organs of the State, within the spheres of their authority, shall be responsible for ensuring that the provisions of this Part are implemented in full.