Cyprus-Forum.com

[Talisker]

Have been reading a paper 'Trauma, identity and search for a solution in Cyprus' (http://www.vamikvolkan.com/History-of-Cyprus.php) by Vamik D. Volkan, Emeritus Professor of Psychiatry at the University of Virginia, Charlottesville, Virginia, USA. Professor Volkan is Turkish Cypriot.

He makes the following interesting observation in this paper:

Large-group identity issues among the Cypriot Turks have began to exhibit themselves in some universities in Northern Cyprus, creating serious concerns among university authorities. For example, it has been observed that Cypriot Turkish university students have begun to segregate themselves from their fellow university students from mainland Turkey. If a young man or woman from a Cy­priot Turkish group starts dating someone from among the students from Turkey, or vice versa, the couple becomes socially isolated. Cypriot Turkish university stu­dents refer to students from Turkey as “extreme religious” or “extreme nationalist” individuals and attempt to differentiate their large-group identity from that of mainland Turks. This situation, according to some university authorities whom I interviewed, could conceivably lead to violence.

The question has to be is this a hopeful sign or a retrograde step in considering possible future reunification within Cyprus? Are TC students distancing themselves from their Turkish peers because they wish to maintain a Cypriot identity and would prefer to integrate with their fellow Cypriots in the free south, or is it an indication that TCs as a group just cannot integrate with anybody?

The case simply arises from cultural differences.. like urban TCs don't like to have close relations with rural TCs and vice versa... It's impossible such a situation leads to violence between Turks and TCs.

For TCs who study in Turkey the case is different... They usually get marry with a Turk either stay there and live in Turkey or return Cyprus and settle down... depends on economic abilities and job opportunities they r offered by their parents.

So urban and rural TCs don't mix, and neither integrates with Turks?

Not all ofc... it all depends on their social, educational and economic circumstances...

According to my observations, the TCs(including Cyprus born settler's children) that have groupings of same or similar culture and live significantly TC populated areas; don't like culturally aversive(aversive racism?) Turkish uni students...

The Turkish students who come TRNC to study r the lowest "quality" students who educationally r not adequate to enter any of the Turkish Unis in Turkey.

Some 10% of these Turkish students r extremely arrogant which i call them "rich bumpkins" and others mostly, either r middle-class ignorants(mostly religous but not extreme) or indoctrinated nationalists(sometimes extreme).

Neither rural TCs nor urban TCs would wish to have close relationships with such kind of Turkish males.

However for TC uni males the case is different... ignorant or not; all Turkish girls of their type(physically) r welcomed for any purpose... including dating and marriage...

Thanks Insan, what are the political and social attitudes of TC and Turkish women (if you know? )? Do they differ from males? Often wondered why there are so few TC or Turkish women posting on CF.........

[insan]

I'm getting a picture of the following (obviously generalisations but interesting nonetheless): young TCs favour reunification (or may leave), old TCs don't; urban and rural TCs have different attitudes (to Turks, what about to reunification?); TCs, in general, don't mix with Turks. Correct?

In general, yes... Young TCs who have moderate left wing lineage favour reunification according to UN resolutions and agreements signed by 2 sides... extreme left TCs(including extreme left settlers or Cyprus born children) supports a reunification nearly as how overwhelming majority of GC left and right demands... and TCs who have right wing lineage, either favour a confederation or 2 seperate states...

[Talisker]

I'm getting a picture of the following (obviously generalisations but interesting nonetheless): young TCs favour reunification (or may leave), old TCs don't; urban and rural TCs have different attitudes (to Turks, what about to reunification?); TCs, in general, don't mix with Turks. Correct?

when you say r eunification you have to be clear because when the turks say it they mean two states under one means re unification.. in their world it does,, to normal people re unification means getting rid of the line not having two states under one state..

I'm an idealist - reunification to me means a single Cypriot state with reintegrated communities.

[paliometoxo]

re unification to me means re unified land not two states under one.. thats partition no matter how you say it

[Talisker]

re unification to me means re unified land not two states under one.. thats partition no matter how you say it

I think we're agreeing, paliometoxo!

[paliometoxo]

i think so to

[zmx]

From my own observations, without any type of bias, the majority of TC's do want reunification and to a degree I think that age is a determining factor when it comes to that matter.

many older ppl still have the old "motherland syndrome",(a legacy of the old expansionist policies of Ankara/Athens), something which has somewhat decreased in recent times.

That and the memories of the troubles of the 50s, 60s, and 70's make them feel somewhat opposed to reunification.

[insan]

Have been reading a paper 'Trauma, identity and search for a solution in Cyprus' (http://www.vamikvolkan.com/History-of-Cyprus.php) by Vamik D. Volkan, Emeritus Professor of Psychiatry at the University of Virginia, Charlottesville, Virginia, USA. Professor Volkan is Turkish Cypriot.

He makes the following interesting observation in this paper:

Large-group identity issues among the Cypriot Turks have began to exhibit themselves in some universities in Northern Cyprus, creating serious concerns among university authorities. For example, it has been observed that Cypriot Turkish university students have begun to segregate themselves from their fellow university students from mainland Turkey. If a young man or woman from a Cy­priot Turkish group starts dating someone from among the students from Turkey, or vice versa, the couple becomes socially isolated. Cypriot Turkish university stu­dents refer to students from Turkey as “extreme religious” or “extreme nationalist” individuals and attempt to differentiate their large-group identity from that of mainland Turks. This situation, according to some university authorities whom I interviewed, could conceivably lead to violence.

The question has to be is this a hopeful sign or a retrograde step in considering possible future reunification within Cyprus? Are TC students distancing themselves from their Turkish peers because they wish to maintain a Cypriot identity and would prefer to integrate with their fellow Cypriots in the free south, or is it an indication that TCs as a group just cannot integrate with anybody?

The case simply arises from cultural differences.. like urban TCs don't like to have close relations with rural TCs and vice versa... It's impossible such a situation leads to violence between Turks and TCs.

For TCs who study in Turkey the case is different... They usually get marry with a Turk either stay there and live in Turkey or return Cyprus and settle down... depends on economic abilities and job opportunities they r offered by their parents.

So urban and rural TCs don't mix, and neither integrates with Turks?

Not all ofc... it all depends on their social, educational and economic circumstances...

According to my observations, the TCs(including Cyprus born settler's children) that have groupings of same or similar culture and live significantly TC populated areas; don't like culturally aversive(aversive racism?) Turkish uni students...

The Turkish students who come TRNC to study r the lowest "quality" students who educationally r not adequate to enter any of the Turkish Unis in Turkey.

Some 10% of these Turkish students r extremely arrogant which i call them "rich bumpkins" and others mostly, either r middle-class ignorants(mostly religous but not extreme) or indoctrinated nationalists(sometimes extreme).

Neither rural TCs nor urban TCs would wish to have close relationships with such kind of Turkish males.

However for TC uni males the case is different... ignorant or not; all Turkish girls of their type(physically) r welcomed for any purpose... including dating and marriage...

Thanks Insan, what are the political and social attitudes of TC and Turkish women (if you know? )? Do they differ from males? Often wondered why there are so few TC or Turkish women posting on CF.........

The political and social attitudes of TC girls and women:

Women of creme de la creme of two major political TC parties usually r politically active and work through nepotism to register new official members to their parties; respectively... These type of TC women usually don't have time to watch soap-opera tv series or attend non-political entertainments... they r mostly over 40, either retired or dependant on a rich husband.

The politically non-active married TC women which significant number of them r public servants; have a life from home to work, work to home, visit mother and dad, eat meal, leave the washing up to mom, go home, watch sopa-opera tv series, sleep, wake-up, go work... They overwhelmingly, support the political party their husbands support(no forece, voluntarily)...

To be continued...

[Talisker]

Have been reading a paper 'Trauma, identity and search for a solution in Cyprus' (http://www.vamikvolkan.com/History-of-Cyprus.php) by Vamik D. Volkan, Emeritus Professor of Psychiatry at the University of Virginia, Charlottesville, Virginia, USA. Professor Volkan is Turkish Cypriot.

He makes the following interesting observation in this paper:

Large-group identity issues among the Cypriot Turks have began to exhibit themselves in some universities in Northern Cyprus, creating serious concerns among university authorities. For example, it has been observed that Cypriot Turkish university students have begun to segregate themselves from their fellow university students from mainland Turkey. If a young man or woman from a Cy­priot Turkish group starts dating someone from among the students from Turkey, or vice versa, the couple becomes socially isolated. Cypriot Turkish university stu­dents refer to students from Turkey as “extreme religious” or “extreme nationalist” individuals and attempt to differentiate their large-group identity from that of mainland Turks. This situation, according to some university authorities whom I interviewed, could conceivably lead to violence.

The question has to be is this a hopeful sign or a retrograde step in considering possible future reunification within Cyprus? Are TC students distancing themselves from their Turkish peers because they wish to maintain a Cypriot identity and would prefer to integrate with their fellow Cypriots in the free south, or is it an indication that TCs as a group just cannot integrate with anybody?

The case simply arises from cultural differences.. like urban TCs don't like to have close relations with rural TCs and vice versa... It's impossible such a situation leads to violence between Turks and TCs.

For TCs who study in Turkey the case is different... They usually get marry with a Turk either stay there and live in Turkey or return Cyprus and settle down... depends on economic abilities and job opportunities they r offered by their parents.

So urban and rural TCs don't mix, and neither integrates with Turks?

Not all ofc... it all depends on their social, educational and economic circumstances...

According to my observations, the TCs(including Cyprus born settler's children) that have groupings of same or similar culture and live significantly TC populated areas; don't like culturally aversive(aversive racism?) Turkish uni students...

The Turkish students who come TRNC to study r the lowest "quality" students who educationally r not adequate to enter any of the Turkish Unis in Turkey.

Some 10% of these Turkish students r extremely arrogant which i call them "rich bumpkins" and others mostly, either r middle-class ignorants(mostly religous but not extreme) or indoctrinated nationalists(sometimes extreme).

Neither rural TCs nor urban TCs would wish to have close relationships with such kind of Turkish males.

However for TC uni males the case is different... ignorant or not; all Turkish girls of their type(physically) r welcomed for any purpose... including dating and marriage...

Thanks Insan, what are the political and social attitudes of TC and Turkish women (if you know? )? Do they differ from males? Often wondered why there are so few TC or Turkish women posting on CF.........

The political and social attitudes of TC girls and women:

Women of creme de la creme of two major political TC parties usually r politically active and work through nepotism to register new official members to their parties; respectively... These type of TC women usually don't have time to watch soap-opera tv series or attend non-political entertainments... they r mostly over 40, either retired or dependant on a rich husband.

The politically non-active married TC women which significant number of them r public servants; have a life from home to work, work to home, visit mother and dad, eat meal, leave the washing up to mom, go home, watch sopa-opera tv series, sleep, wake-up, go work... They overwhelmingly, support the political party their husbands support(no forece, voluntarily)...

To be continued...

Thanks Insan, look forward to it!

[Oracle]

The case simply arises from cultural differences.. like urban TCs don't like to have close relations with rural TCs and vice versa... It's impossible such a situation leads to violence between Turks and TCs.

Hardly.

Up until very recent times there was hardly a solely "urban" population in Cyprus in the first place.

Even those who lived in towns still had strong connections to the countryside and the rural lifestyle, so the lifestyles of the urban and rural populations wasnt great enough for there to be a social divide between the two.

Well.. believe it or not... I'm the TC who experienced the townee-villager discrimination... even when we(urban TCs) get angry with any of our village-rooted elders; we accuse them still bearing the old, stupid villager mentality.

zmx, if u r not a TC, u can't claim that u know better than me...

Well then your claims for a separate state based on differences between GCs and TCs is totally stupid. Differences exist within all spheres. So get out of the north and stop demanding your own state! Or are you going to make mini-statelets between urbanites and ruralites? Learn to be tolerant and treat people as equals.

Gawd you are so pathetic ....

Keep abusing the issues for ur self-interests which makes u run around the same circle and go nowhere...

The circle we need to break is the treadmill the TCs are pedalling. Some things do not change so quickly. The disharmony the TCs express now (to justify demanding a separate, personal state), which is having to share the north with Turks, has echoes of what they claim they had to put up with from GCs in the 60's. From this we can conclude the TCs are intolerant of others. They obviously need to change since this brave new world requires acceptance of others if you are to survive. Moreover, this is conclusive proof that there is no justification for segregation based on GC attitudes to TCs. It's the TCs who need to address their expectations.