Cyprus-Forum.com

[BirKibrisli]

Now put these in your pipe and smoke it,Malapapa...Because the average TC thinks just like what I have written above...Keep on treating them as second class Cypriots,or pretenders, cowardly collaborators of a foreign power and you will sign your own death warrants...

This is your idea of addressing my concerns?

Talking about human rights and democracy is all well,but it would be more believable if you showed the slightest empathy for the TC plight when they were really down and out...

I do sympathise with TCs but... (shall we start the thread all over again?)

Democracy is a regime which cannot be sustained without one fundamental human right,the right to free speech...The way you have been treating the likes of Bananiot and Expat who are only trying to practise their most democratic right makes you all unsavory characters who cannot be trusted to run a democratic state...

75% of Brits don't trust their politicians to run a democratic state. Welcome to the real world...

No,Malapapa,,,,If you sympathise with the TCs there should be no buts...
Else,it brings to mind some other buts like, "I have nothing against the blacks, but ..."

[YFred]

Malap, you continue to ask for your points to be addressed, but will not say from whose perspective. To say GC point of view would undermine the purpose of your thread as you'd be shown to be self-interested, but to say from both perspectives opens you up to real situations that have arisen in the context of the Cyprus situation which would again undermine your position.

Why don't you address the concerns all free Cypriots would have, including TCs living in the free areas or in other parts of the free world, and stop worrying about perspectives? I am coming at this from a human perspective.

So you want your points addressed from a "human perspective",Malapapa???
which human prespective are you talking about???The one exibited daily on this forum??? The racist,intolerant,bigoted human perspective???I will give it a go...

1. What hard won freedoms are you talking about??? All the GCs ever did was betray their motherland by wanting to unite it with a foreign power,Greece...You should thank those brave TCs who stood in your way,in the way of ENOSIS,and kiss Turkey's hand for finally giving you the opportunity to become True Cypriots and finally appreciate what it is like to be downtrotten in your own country.....

2.What is good for the goose...If the TCs can be forced to run away and give up their own properties in the South,the GCs should not complain too much about their own properties in the North...

3. The conditions present in Cyprus cannot be found in any other EU country...We do not have an oppressive majority who for 11 years(63-74) turned a blind I to the suffering of the minority,and encouraged them to leave their motherland,in their version of the final solution,when the Hitler version proved too difficult to emulate....

4.Universal suffrage is a luxury we cannot afford in Cyprus...Because the majority of Cypriots proved themselves uncapable of respecting the human rights of their minority,and forced them to live in fear of pysical extermination, massacres,rapes, and such attrocities,for 11 long years...The majority of Cypriots have added insult to injury by refusing to admit that such treatment was handed to the minority when they had them in their power...

5. Turkey's influence in Cyprus is not new. It goes back to 1571 when the Ottoman's liberated the local population from the Venitian yoke,and went on to provide the most tolerant of all imperial rules,proven by the fact that when they relinguished their rule, more than 300 years later,the GC majority was very much in tact....

6...Turkey's intervention in 74 saved Cyprus from a fate worse than death,to be in the mercy of the Junta in Greece and its local murderous puppets...a lot of Greek Cypriots and all TCs were in danger of massacres and worse abuse of human rights which the brave Turkish soldiers have prevented...why be afraid of such a well meaning neighbour if you do not have evil plans on your fellow Cypriots....???

Now put these in your pipe and smoke it,Malapapa...Because the average TC thinks just like what I have written above...Keep on treating them as second class Cypriots,or pretenders, cowardly collaborators of a foreign power and you will sign your own death warrants...Talking about human rights and democracy is all well,but it would be more believable if you showed the slightest empathy for the TC plight when they were really down and out...Democracy is a regime which cannot be sustained without one fundamental human right,the right to free speech...The way you have been treating the likes of Bananiot and Expat who are only trying to practise their most democratic right makes you all unsavory characters who cannot be trusted to run a democratic state...

Bir If I may add one more point to your list above, Turkey invaded Cyprus and yet the GC administration has chosen to suffocate the TC economy in the name of liberating it. If this mentality is not the sickest I have ever come across I don't know what is.
In the mean time the bash patriots keep paying lip service to democracy and human rights. It is Xmass after all, may I offer an alternative to smoking for my bash patriots. Perhaps they can roll it up in a cylindrical shape and I do believe they are familiar as to what to do with i next.
For the rest of my GC friends have a very Verry Xmass.

[YFred]

Malap, you continue to ask for your points to be addressed, but will not say from whose perspective. To say GC point of view would undermine the purpose of your thread as you'd be shown to be self-interested, but to say from both perspectives opens you up to real situations that have arisen in the context of the Cyprus situation which would again undermine your position.

Why don't you address the concerns all free Cypriots would have, including TCs living in the free areas or in other parts of the free world, and stop worrying about perspectives? I am coming at this from a human perspective.

So you want your points addressed from a "human perspective",Malapapa???
which human prespective are you talking about???The one exibited daily on this forum??? The racist,intolerant,bigoted human perspective???I will give it a go...

1. What hard won freedoms are you talking about??? All the GCs ever did was betray their motherland by wanting to unite it with a foreign power,Greece...You should thank those brave TCs who stood in your way,in the way of ENOSIS,and kiss Turkey's hand for finally giving you the opportunity to become True Cypriots and finally appreciate what it is like to be downtrotten in your own country.....

2.What is good for the goose...If the TCs can be forced to run away and give up their own properties in the South,the GCs should not complain too much about their own properties in the North...

3. The conditions present in Cyprus cannot be found in any other EU country...We do not have an oppressive majority who for 11 years(63-74) turned a blind I to the suffering of the minority,and encouraged them to leave their motherland,in their version of the final solution,when the Hitler version proved too difficult to emulate....

4.Universal suffrage is a luxury we cannot afford in Cyprus...Because the majority of Cypriots proved themselves uncapable of respecting the human rights of their minority,and forced them to live in fear of pysical extermination, massacres,rapes, and such attrocities,for 11 long years...The majority of Cypriots have added insult to injury by refusing to admit that such treatment was handed to the minority when they had them in their power...

5. Turkey's influence in Cyprus is not new. It goes back to 1571 when the Ottoman's liberated the local population from the Venitian yoke,and went on to provide the most tolerant of all imperial rules,proven by the fact that when they relinguished their rule, more than 300 years later,the GC majority was very much in tact....

6...Turkey's intervention in 74 saved Cyprus from a fate worse than death,to be in the mercy of the Junta in Greece and its local murderous puppets...a lot of Greek Cypriots and all TCs were in danger of massacres and worse abuse of human rights which the brave Turkish soldiers have prevented...why be afraid of such a well meaning neighbour if you do not have evil plans on your fellow Cypriots....???

Now put these in your pipe and smoke it,Malapapa...Because the average TC thinks just like what I have written above...Keep on treating them as second class Cypriots,or pretenders, cowardly collaborators of a foreign power and you will sign your own death warrants...Talking about human rights and democracy is all well,but it would be more believable if you showed the slightest empathy for the TC plight when they were really down and out...Democracy is a regime which cannot be sustained without one fundamental human right,the right to free speech...The way you have been treating the likes of Bananiot and Expat who are only trying to practise their most democratic right makes you all unsavory characters who cannot be trusted to run a democratic state...

Bir If I may add one more point to your list above, Turkey invaded Cyprus and yet the GC administration has chosen to suffocate the TC economy in the name of liberating it. If this mentality is not the sickest I have ever come across I don't know what is.
In the mean time the bash patriots keep paying lip service to democracy and human rights. It is Xmas after all, may I offer an alternative to smoking for my bash patriots. Perhaps they can roll it up in a cylindrical shape and I do believe they are familiar as to what to do with it next.

For the rest of my GC friends have a very Very Xmas.

[Expatkiwi]

turkey is not making the solving of the cyprus problem very easy.. infact they are making it next to impossible

I would have to agree with you here. They are being rather interfering and politically overbearing for a 'protective' power. If Turkey does indeed recognize TRNC as a sovereign nation, they should be consulting with the Talat Administration rather than unilaterally making their own policy decisions that effectively sidelines President Talat and his government. That kind of behavior simply gives more credence to the claim that Turkey is more an occupier of TRNC than an ally of TRNC.

Jesus, what happened to you, Expat? You're almost starting to talk sense.

Malapapa, I want TRNC to be sovereign in every respect. That means that other nations - including Turkey - respects the TRNC's sovereignty. The fact that no other nation but Turkey recognizes TRNC (with the exception of Azerbaijan's NAR), and that Turkey's relations with TRNC are not what I'd call purely friendly-state-to-friendly-state makes the TRNC's standing (from both sides) rather impotent. The Turkish Cypriots deserve better.

The Maoris deserve better. Give them their own state in New Zealand before you come here advocating the carving up of Cyprus, you outsider.

I have no problem with that. Not do I have a problem with advocating self-determination for the Australian Aboriginals.

[SKI-preo]

I know that Turkish Cypriots I suffered in other places, which seemed a world away from my town, but the average Turkish Cypriot does not care one iota about my town which was all greek in terms of occupation and ownership and where most people avoided politics and "intercommunal violence". Many Turkish Cypriots consider that the life of any random Greek Cypriot is good enough to pay the price.Even where ten times as many people were killed in 1974 by the Turkish army in a couple of days.

Although many Turkish Cypriots seem to think that Greek Cypriots were liberated in 1974 by the Turkish Army, this is not true in my town. First they bombed us with Napalm at about 3 to 4 am. What I think must have been F-16 type jets (i was only 5) blew up buses filled with people who did not know where to run. Then thousands paratroopers blacked out the sky and bayoneted and shot anything that moved at random to cause panic.I could never understand why they bayoneted a giant Cypriot donkey. An elderly relative was shot in the head as she was was screaming in an annoying way to the soldiers. A carpenter my dad knew had his hand cut off and then bled to death because he tried to swallow his wedding ring. One of my dad's friends was too slow to give the car keys to his car over to the soldiers so he was bayoneted & kicked to death.

Most Turkish Cypriots :
(a) Have never been told about these incidents;
(b) Those who know say, well some random EOKA B thugs killed some random Turkish Cypriots- anything that the Turkish Army does to unrelated Greek Cypriots is justified,including Greek Cypriots from areas were no Turkish Cypriots ever lived with zero connection to anything.
(c) The Turkish Army managed to capture and ethnically cleanse a random unrelated town and that this" is a fact on the ground" that should become law and ethnic cleansing must be maintained indefinitely- the mainland turks living in this town should be allowed to sell everything that was confiscated from that town including the town itself and the identity of the ethnically cleansed .

I have never met a Turkish Cypriot who would have been satisfied with the punishment of an individual Greek Cypriot murderer from ten or eleven years earlier. They want ME personally to remain ethnically cleansed and to pay the price ,as a random person who just happens to be a hated Greek Cypriot.

Why don't the Turkish Cypriots use all the legal tools used by the Bosnians against the Turks against the individuals who they believe made them suffer many years before my village was ethnically cleansed? The answer is they don't really care about getting justice for their suffering in the 1960's they want to sell MY property and identity to make a profit.Turkish Cypriots want to make the Kyrenia region and surrounding areas pay for everyone.

Why does THIS unrelated area have to suffer the over the top revenge the Turkish Cypriots want Greek Cypriots to feel? They can't hide behind their finger!

[Malapapa]

I have no problem with that. Not do I have a problem with advocating self-determination for the Australian Aboriginals.

Great. Go and sort it out; lead the way and then, with all your experience down under, come back and help us sort out Cyprus. But not before.

[Malapapa]

No,Malapapa,,,,If you sympathise with the TCs there should be no buts...
Else,it brings to mind some other buts like, "I have nothing against the blacks, but ..."

Sorry. You're asking too much. I asked you to address the concerns of free Cypriots; help us to help you. You can't. And I appreciate that you can't. But instead you offer threats and guilt. I wasn't around in Cyprus in the 60s; and don't respond well to either.

[Viewpoint]

Malap, you continue to ask for your points to be addressed, but will not say from whose perspective. To say GC point of view would undermine the purpose of your thread as you'd be shown to be self-interested, but to say from both perspectives opens you up to real situations that have arisen in the context of the Cyprus situation which would again undermine your position.

Why don't you address the concerns all free Cypriots would have, including TCs living in the free areas or in other parts of the free world, and stop worrying about perspectives? I am coming at this from a human perspective.

So you want your points addressed from a "human perspective",Malapapa???
which human prespective are you talking about???The one exibited daily on this forum??? The racist,intolerant,bigoted human perspective???I will give it a go...

1. What hard won freedoms are you talking about??? All the GCs ever did was betray their motherland by wanting to unite it with a foreign power,Greece...You should thank those brave TCs who stood in your way,in the way of ENOSIS,and kiss Turkey's hand for finally giving you the opportunity to become True Cypriots and finally appreciate what it is like to be downtrotten in your own country.....

2.What is good for the goose...If the TCs can be forced to run away and give up their own properties in the South,the GCs should not complain too much about their own properties in the North...

3. The conditions present in Cyprus cannot be found in any other EU country...We do not have an oppressive majority who for 11 years(63-74) turned a blind I to the suffering of the minority,and encouraged them to leave their motherland,in their version of the final solution,when the Hitler version proved too difficult to emulate....

4.Universal suffrage is a luxury we cannot afford in Cyprus...Because the majority of Cypriots proved themselves uncapable of respecting the human rights of their minority,and forced them to live in fear of pysical extermination, massacres,rapes, and such attrocities,for 11 long years...The majority of Cypriots have added insult to injury by refusing to admit that such treatment was handed to the minority when they had them in their power...

5. Turkey's influence in Cyprus is not new. It goes back to 1571 when the Ottoman's liberated the local population from the Venitian yoke,and went on to provide the most tolerant of all imperial rules,proven by the fact that when they relinguished their rule, more than 300 years later,the GC majority was very much in tact....

6...Turkey's intervention in 74 saved Cyprus from a fate worse than death,to be in the mercy of the Junta in Greece and its local murderous puppets...a lot of Greek Cypriots and all TCs were in danger of massacres and worse abuse of human rights which the brave Turkish soldiers have prevented...why be afraid of such a well meaning neighbour if you do not have evil plans on your fellow Cypriots....???

Now put these in your pipe and smoke it,Malapapa...Because the average TC thinks just like what I have written above...Keep on treating them as second class Cypriots,or pretenders, cowardly collaborators of a foreign power and you will sign your own death warrants...Talking about human rights and democracy is all well,but it would be more believable if you showed the slightest empathy for the TC plight when they were really down and out...Democracy is a regime which cannot be sustained without one fundamental human right,the right to free speech...The way you have been treating the likes of Bananiot and Expat who are only trying to practise their most democratic right makes you all unsavory characters who cannot be trusted to run a democratic state...

Excellent post Bir, only problem is, it falls on deaf ears, they dont want to know your side of the story on their own.

[YFred]

No,Malapapa,,,,If you sympathise with the TCs there should be no buts...
Else,it brings to mind some other buts like, "I have nothing against the blacks, but ..."

Sorry. You're asking too much. I asked you to address the concerns of free Cypriots; help us to help you. You can't. And I appreciate that you can't. But instead you offer threats and guilt. I wasn't around in Cyprus in the 60s; and don't respond well to either.

Which explains why you have difficulty in relating to what we are talking about.
Never mind.

[Expatkiwi]

I have no problem with that. Not do I have a problem with advocating self-determination for the Australian Aboriginals.

Great. Go and sort it out; lead the way and then, with all your experience down under, come back and help us sort out Cyprus. But not before.

There is a slight problem though: There is no breakaway NZ Maori state, nor a breakaway Australian Aboriginal state. Certainly no UDI's from either community that I know about anyhow. TRNC on the other hand does exist, despite your side's best efforts to ignore that fact.