Cyprus-Forum.com

[Expatkiwi]

Malapapa and Paphitis had - in an earlier thread - used some interesting comparisons with the Turkish Intervention of July 1974. Specifically, the Nazi German conquest of France, which kind of took me aback.
Their rationale is that Turkey is an invader and conquerer of foreign soil (Republic of Cyprus), while the opposing view is that Turkey intervened to liberate Turkish Cypriots from Nikos Sampson's tender mercies. I have to admit that while I support the view that the 1974 Turkish Intervention was not only legal under the Treaty of Guarantee, but necessary (given EOKA-B's stated goals of enosis and the removal of the Turkish Cypriot presence from the island), the continuing presence of a large Turkish garrison in what is supposed to be a foreign country makes it look less of a protector power and more of an occupation power, and given my opposition towards annexation of TRNC by Turkey, it makes me rather uneasy. I know that some folk in this forum (like Runaway) prefers annexation, but such a move would end up dissolving the Turkish Cypriot identity, which would be just as much a cultural disaster as what Sampson would have done had the coup prevailed.
Anyway, being a student of both military history and politics, I have not come across in my research of any record of a 'status of forces agreement' between Turkey and TRNC (a SOF agreement is a military treaty between two sovereign powers that define the roles of a protective force on foreign soil), which is rather unusual, given Turkey's official position that the TRNC is a sovereign state, and that they are there solely to keep the sovereignty of TRNC intact. An existance of such an SOF Agreement or Mutual Assistance Pact means that Turkey is not longer an occupation power, but a protector with the full blessings of the host country.
This means that if there is no such formal agreement between the TRNC and Turkey, then that means that in effect, the TRNC government has absolutely no say or power over the disposition of Turkish Forces in their country, and Turkey therefore is in every respect an occupier. I am saying this based on my stance that the TRNC is - and ought to be regarded as - sovereign (which I know a big number of forum folk here do not agree with). If Turkey does not actually treat the TRNC as sovereign, and merely as a puppet state under military rule, then I have to seriously reconsider my attitude towards the Cyprus Problem.
Therefore, my question (which is being addressed to the Turkish Cypriot members of the forum) is this: Is Turkey indeed a protector power, or is it really an occupation power? I'd like to know what you think, and if you can give me some information to support your viewpoint.

[miltiades]

Its time that you come clean and tell us your past.
Turkey INVADED Cyprus , thousands killed , raped , displaced forcibly from their homes .Is this an intervention ?
Turkeys aim has always been the partition of the island and the total Turkification of the occupied parts. Had Turkey "intervened " legally as you state under the Zurich agreement then Turkey would have honoured her "legal" obligations by firstly respecting the territorial integrity of a nation that she was obliged to protect , secondly by removing her 40 thousand troops and thirdly not embarking on a programme to annihilate anything Greek Cypriot or indeed Turkish Cypriot in the occupied part. Was part of her obligations given under the ZA the banning of the T/C dialect , the introduction of Islam teaching at T/C schools , the obliteration of anything Greek in the names of towns and villages that were known and still known by their original name or the ABOLITION of the term T/C ? Thirty five years on and Turkey's cheap propaganda machine churns out the nonsense of intervention , it is no surprise therefore that the ENTIRE international community, apart from the CHEAPSKATES BRITISH YOBS in the occupied parts , reject her efforts to bestow legality and recognition to the occupiers creation the "trnc".

I also have a legal right , protected by English law , to intervene and stop a burglary from taking place upon my property . I do not have the legal right to kill , rape , dispossess the assailants of their property .Neither do the burglars have a legal right to sell off my property to CHEAPSKATES.

Turkeys game is known by the USA and the West in general , why else would the USA and the West steadfastly refuse to bow to relentless pressure exerted by a very important strategic partner to recognize their occupation as legal.

May I ask you finally that since you believe that the best option is partition what are you thoughts on the future after partition /annexation . Do you honestly think that the G/Cs as well as a large number of genuine T/Cs , Armenians as well will just simply accept and forget. No , they will not , conflict will occur in the future by a new generation who may have at their disposable what this generation does not.By this I mean the military support of the West , and more potently the military support of the EU on whose land the occupying forces will no doubt remain.
Take it from me , a moderate and one that considers the T/Cs as my brothers and sisters , the Cypriot people will NEVER accept a situation that Turkey has clearly embarked upon the annexation of the occupied part of Cyprus.

[B25]

Milti, I don't often agree with you, but this was well put.

If Expat, cannot see whast Turkey is playing at and needs the TCs to explain with evidence then he is taking the P*ss.

What are you after Dean, some hard evidence that you motherland is actually in the wrong??? Come on, you have Bs us long enough.

[BOF]

Just like to level out the playing field a bit by pointing out there are also quite a number of GERMAN and SCANDINAVIAN "CHEAPSKATES" with property in the north also.

[miltiades]

Just like to level out the playing field a bit by pointing out there are also quite a number of GERMAN and SCANDINAVIAN "CHEAPSKATES" with property in the north also.

Absolutely , as well as Israelites , I did not include them , mentioning only the Brits as they are by far the biggest number that rushed to buy from the back of the lorry.
My views and connections to mostly the English are well posted , yet I despise immensely these vagabonds who not only purchased stolen properties but grew to hate the G/Cs with so much much ferocity and dedication. I posted once that I believe these cheapskates should be banned from the free areas of Cyprus or arrested and sent home having entered Cyprus illegally and having become accessories to theft.
We do not need these hyenas on our shores anymore than Britain needs the so called British who are hell bent on destroying our culture and our way of life.
It takes political courage , in the UK , that we unfortunately do not currently have being busy feathering our nests and watching adult movies courtesy of the British tax payer.

[Oracle]

... my stance that the TRNC is - and ought to be regarded as - sovereign (which I know a big number of forum folk here do not agree with). .

Your personal stance, as a prostitute of Denktash, is worthless.

Whoring yourself around fora, exposing your stupidity, will not change the stance of the whole world in favour of yours!

[Tim Drayton]

I would also be glad to read some Turkish Cypriot input on this one.

[insan]

After 9+ years in these forums; i feel it's a waste of time to repeat my views regarding this and similar issues...

As for GC views; they r too simplistic and far from to be the truth... totally based on Hellenic official propaganda..

[Malapapa]

If Turkey does not actually treat the TRNC as sovereign, and merely as a puppet state under military rule, then I have to seriously reconsider my attitude towards the Cyprus Problem.
Therefore, my question (which is being addressed to the Turkish Cypriot members of the forum) is this: Is Turkey indeed a protector power, or is it really an occupation power? I'd like to know what you think, and if you can give me some information to support your viewpoint.

So what do you discuss with your penpal? How to photograph landscapes?

[umit07]

Most TC's are not happy with Turkey's attitude towards the TRNC, although it's supposed to be an independent country, there are numerous aspects that contradict Turkey's stance. Many of which have been echoed on the forum time and time again. Neither Talat or Eroglu have any control over the Turkish Military presence. I remember an event in my village where a guy put up an RoC flag on top of his house, after the police took it down soldiers from the local barracks would circle our neighborhood every morning during their morning run. This continued for a week until residents started complaining about being woken up at 6.30 in the morning by chanting soldiers.

The odd thing is that I do not believe that even the settlers would want the north to be annexed to Turkey officially. As my father says many the eastern Anatolian settlers see the place as "mini America", I reckon annexing the north would actually decrease the number of settlers if economic circumstances were the same.

For the average TC all this stuff is like being stuck in between a rock and a hard place. The bitter truth is that it's becoming harder and harder to reach mutual agreement, it may already be too late as well, I hope I'm wrong on this.