Cyprus-Forum.com

[Malapapa]

Yeahh.. one more GC that don't know abt his history or pretends that he does not know; skips some parts in order to make it fit to blame Turkey not restoring the constitution under the "friendly" circumstances of 1974...

Well, then... keep running around the same circles and go nowhere... that's what suits u...

This thread is about whether Turkey is an occupier or liberator in Cyprus. You don't blame Turkey for her actions in 1974 or afterwards.

I am drawing clear parallels with Nazi Germany's actions in Poland which you are avoiding.

German speakers were no doubt being mistreated by the majority Poles for many years after the first world war. So, was Nazi Germany jusified to intervene and liberate them in 1939?

[Expatkiwi]

People, you are all dancing around the point of this thread.

Oracle, Paphitis, Malapapa, and B25; this thread was for TC's to reply to. As you don't recognize TRNC as sovereign, obviously you are going to say that Turkey is an occupation power. I wanted TC's to reply to this thread so as to gauge their views. Your posts are distracting from that.

I will say this though: I asked Mr. Denktas about what he thought about Turkey's continued military presence in TRNC, given that Turkey's proximity to Cyprus made such a large deployment of troops in his country rather redundant. He replied that "given the repeated attempts by Greece in the past to destroy our people in Cyprus, Turkey's large military presence here in the TRNC ensures that this possibility will not happen again, plus it assures the people of the TRNC that Turkey cares about them, and will protect them". I wasn't really satisfied with his answer, plus he had made no mention to me about a SOF Agreement, or a Defense Treaty.

From a military-political viewpoint, the proximity of Turkey to the TRNC, and its ability to quickly deploy its military makes the presence of 40,000 troops unnecessary. Half that number would be more realistic for a protector power. Indeed, such a high military-to-civilian ratio in the TRNC at present makes the Turkish military look more like an occupier than a protector to the casual observer, which gives further credence to the RoCy's stance. Thats why I wanted to know if there is a Defense Treaty between the TRNC and Turkey that does define the numbers and the roles of that number of troops.

[Expatkiwi]

Viewpoint, Do you know of any treaties I am referring to?

[Malapapa]

We didn't ask "minority rule"... we asked and desired a "consociational rule" of 2 nations of Cyprus... that would create 2 politically equal ethnic groups having exactly the same political strength to work together in perfect harmony had they sorted out their fear and animosity related differences...

Do you think the Poles should have gone for something like this in 1939 - to prevent Hitler liberating the German speakers in Poland?

[Paphitis]

The unamended RoC constitution is still in place. The Makarios 13 point plan was never ratified, so the TCs could have negotiated with their GC counterparts.

13 points were negotiated from 1968 till 1974... no fruit... u insisted on "majority rule"... what has left to negotiate abt it?

Our minority rights?

That proposed "majority rule" was NOT exclusive to GCs. It included any, and all TCs.

This "majority rule", which you so hate, is not a racist connotation, such as (your) "minority rule" would rest upon.

We didn't ask "minority rule"... we asked and desired a "consociational rule" of 2 nations of Cyprus... that would create 2 politically equal ethnic groups having exactly the same political strength to work together in perfect harmony had they sorted out their fear and animosity related differences...

It would also mean a non democratic and dysfunctional nation whereby the GCs don't have equal rights as citizens of the nation.

[insan]

People, you are all dancing around the point of this thread.

Oracle, Paphitis, Malapapa, and B25; this thread was for TC's to reply to. As you don't recognize TRNC as sovereign, obviously you are going to say that Turkey is an occupation power. I wanted TC's to reply to this thread so as to gauge their views. Your posts are distracting from that.

I will say this though: I asked Mr. Denktas about what he thought about Turkey's continued military presence in TRNC, given that Turkey's proximity to Cyprus made such a large deployment of troops in his country rather redundant. He replied that "given the repeated attempts by Greece in the past to destroy our people in Cyprus, Turkey's large military presence here in the TRNC ensures that this possibility will not happen again, plus it assures the people of the TRNC that Turkey cares about them, and will protect them". I wasn't really satisfied with his answer, plus he had made no mention to me about a SOF Agreement, or a Defense Treaty.

From a military-political viewpoint, the proximity of Turkey to the TRNC, and its ability to quickly deploy its military makes the presence of 40,000 troops unnecessary. Half that number would be more realistic for a protector power. Indeed, such a high military-to-civilian ratio in the TRNC at present makes the Turkish military look more like an occupier than a protector to the casual observer, which gives further credence to the RoCy's stance. Thats why I wanted to know if there is a Defense Treaty between the TRNC and Turkey that does define the numbers and the roles of that number of troops.

According to the TC, Turkish and UN sources there r 21.000 Turkish troops in North... had there been 15.000 TC national guard and 130.000 TC reservist with no isolations on TRNC; there would have been just 2-3 thousands of Turkish troops...

The real problem with Turkish army and every instituion in Turkey and TRNC is the "Ergenekon" type illegal, disgusting, f*cking formations...

[Malapapa]

"given the repeated attempts by Greece in the past to destroy our people in Cyprus, Turkey's large military presence here in the TRNC ensures that this possibility will not happen again, plus it assures the people of the TRNC that Turkey cares about them, and will protect them".

Sounds like something Hitler might have said after Germany's invasion of Poland:

"given the repeated attempts by Russia in the past to destroy our people in Poland, Germany's large military presence here in the German Republic of Western Poland ensures that this possibility will not happen again, plus it assures the people of the Germany Republic of Western Poland that Germany cares about them, and will protect them".

[insan]

The unamended RoC constitution is still in place. The Makarios 13 point plan was never ratified, so the TCs could have negotiated with their GC counterparts.

13 points were negotiated from 1968 till 1974... no fruit... u insisted on "majority rule"... what has left to negotiate abt it?

Our minority rights?

That proposed "majority rule" was NOT exclusive to GCs. It included any, and all TCs.

This "majority rule", which you so hate, is not a racist connotation, such as (your) "minority rule" would rest upon.

We didn't ask "minority rule"... we asked and desired a "consociational rule" of 2 nations of Cyprus... that would create 2 politically equal ethnic groups having exactly the same political strength to work together in perfect harmony had they sorted out their fear and animosity related differences...

It would also mean a non democratic and dysfunctional nation whereby the GCs don't have equal rights as citizens of the nation.

U misinterpreting the meaning of "political equality" of 2 nations... As long as we consociationally decide for the matters that r equally vital for 2 nations of Cyprus; i can't see any reason for going to a dysfunctional nation... To the contrary, "poılitical equality" would encourage 2 nations of Cyprus to care abt each other's concerns and force them to take decisions satisfactory to simple majority or clear majority of 2 nations; respectively...

If we don't care abt each other's concerns on vital issues then we can't talk abt a partnership there...

[denizaksulu]

After the restitution of the legal RoC goverment in 1974, Turkey became an 'Occupying' Power in Cyprus. That was their only legal basis for their 'Peace Op/Intervention'. Nothing else to say.

[insan]

After the restitution of the legal RoC goverment in 1974, Turkey became an 'Occupying' Power in Cyprus. That was their only legal basis for their 'Peace Op/Intervention'. Nothing else to say.

So, right after the restitution of the so-called legal RoC government in 1974; Turkey would leave, EOKA-B still threaten with waging a guerilla warfare, irregulars/people run behind taking revenge of their killed/died beloveds... and Deniz would watch all these from London?

Can someone plz tell me step by step what exactly should Turkey do after supposedly restitution of the so-called legal RoC government?

There must be a lot of things i'm missing i suppose...