Cyprus-Forum.com

[miltiades]

Most TC's are not happy with Turkey's attitude towards the TRNC, although it's supposed to be an independent country, there are numerous aspects that contradict Turkey's stance. Many of which have been echoed on the forum time and time again. Neither Talat or Eroglu have any control over the Turkish Military presence. I remember an event in my village where a guy put up an RoC flag on top of his house, after the police took it down soldiers from the local barracks would circle our neighborhood every morning during their morning run. This continued for a week until residents started complaining about being woken up at 6.30 in the morning by chanting soldiers.

The odd thing is that I do not believe that even the settlers would want the north to be annexed to Turkey officially. As my father says many the eastern Anatolian settlers see the place as "mini America", I reckon annexing the north would actually decrease the number of settlers if economic circumstances were the same.

For the average TC all this stuff is like being stuck in between a rock and a hard place. The bitter truth is that it's becoming harder and harder to reach mutual agreement, it may already be too late as well, I hope I'm wrong on this.

A very wise post .

[GreekForumer]

After 9+ years in these forums; i feel it's a waste of time to repeat my views regarding this and similar issues...

No need to repeat yourself. Links to your best relevant posts will suffice.

As for GC views; they r too simplistic and far from to be the truth... totally based on Hellenic official propaganda..

Insan, I challenged you in this thread to support a statement you made. In my opinion, you failed miserably to do so. Despite those google books quotes, you somehow insist your statement was not misleading. I then gave you my ideas of how we could easily do a test for this. But you are not interested in pursuing this and we both know why. How can we have any progress with forumers like you who cannot even concede the simple and obvious.

[bill cobbett]

Reh Expat, Turkey (regretably) did have a right to intervene under the Treaty but only in so far as was necessary to restore the state of affairs as they were in 1960.

So is it an Occupation Power? Well, Turkey had no right to kill and rape thousands and to ethnically cleanse 150-200,000people from their homes and to force a population exchange.

So is it an Occupation Power? Well, after all that initial aggression it has stayed and remained for 35 years, during which time we have seen tens of thousands of Illegals brought in swamping the tissies, other peoples' lands being "sold" off to Land Stealers etc etc

So is it an Occupation Power? Well, if nothing else consider the length of time - 35 years!!! now isn't that alone telling you something?

(Milti ..... Gosh!)

[insan]

Reh Expat, Turkey (regretably) did have a right to intervene under the Treaty but only in so far as was necessary to restore the state of affairs as they were in 1960.

So is it an Occupation Power? Well, Turkey had no right to kill and rape thousands and to ethnically cleanse 150-200,000people from their homes and to force a population exchange.

So is it an Occupation Power? Well, after all that initial aggression it has stayed and remained for 35 years, during which time we have seen tens of thousands of Illegals brought in swamping the tissies, other peoples' lands being "sold" off to Land Stealers etc etc

So is it an Occupation Power? Well, if nothing else consider the length of time - 35 years!!! now isn't that alone telling you something?

(Milti ..... Gosh!)

Turkey wasted her time to restore constitution since 1963... I am not trying to say she didn't make any mistakes(actually retaliatory actions as if 2 worngs make 1 right) during this time...

It is a well known fact that while a large group of GCs were insisting on Enosis backed by an influential Greek poltical group; the other large group of GCs purueing the "majority rule" policy and didn't care abt the demands of TCs. Both were unacceptable for overwhelming majority of TCs... Still both were unacceptable for TCs... but overwhelming majority of GCs backed by overwhelming majority of Greeks still insist on "majority rule"...

Under such circimstances, the events of 1974 and it's consequences had become inevitable and it happened.

As for Turkey's political stance towards TRNC; it has varied depending the political and economical circumstances of Turkey.

I many times stated that Turkish governments in collaboration with TC governments did many mistakes...

Moreover, some legal and illegal self-interest groups stirred a lots of bs both in Turkey and TRNC...

I can't blame and accuse Turkey for what happened both pre-1974 and afterwards.

I can question what happened; the wrong policies they made and blame/accuse the responsible individuals and political groups...

I can struggle to prevent/stop/change ill-intentions, wrong policies, illegal activities of those individuals and political groups but I will never believe that not accepting minority status in Cyprus and struggling against it was a mistake...

[Malapapa]

Reh Expat, Turkey (regretably) did have a right to intervene under the Treaty but only in so far as was necessary to restore the state of affairs as they were in 1960.

Not that this needs repeating, but this is the wording of the guarantee provisions in the Treaty of Establishment of the Republic of Cyprus:

In the event of any breach of the provisions of the present Treaty, Greece, the United Kingdom, and Turkey undertake to consult together, with a view to making representations, or taking the necessary steps to ensure observance of those provisions. In so far as common or concerted action may prove impossible, each of the three guaranteeing Powers reserves the right to take action with the sole aim of re-establishing the state of affairs established by the present Treaty.

By the way, presumably Nazi Germany had the right to intervene in France in 1939, given that France, together with Britain, had declared war.

[bill cobbett]

Insan, you chaps have become not just a minority to the majority greecy population, but also to the Illegals in your "zone" and yet you still defend Turkey in so many ways.

As to not accepting being a minority, demanding so
many special treatments in your vision of an Apartheid Democracy in a tissy zone, isn't that the real problem? One that plays in to Turkey's virtual annexation plan?

We've had Occupation for 35 years mate and your scabby plans will ensure the continuation of the Occupation for a long time to come.

[insan]

Insan, you chaps have become not just a minority to the majority greecy population, but also to the Illegals in your "zone" and yet you still defend Turkey in so many ways.

As to not accepting being a minority, demanding so
many special treatments in your vision of an Apartheid Democracy in a tissy zone, isn't that the real problem? One that plays in to Turkey's virtual annexation plan?

We've had Occupation for 35 years mate and your scabby plans will ensure the continuation of the Occupation for a long time to come.

In 1975, bi-zonality was accepted(supposedly) by ur leadership and later reiterated by all ur leaders and took place in all relevant UN reports...

Now if u claim that we r "illegals" in our "zone"; I can comfortably tell u that neither ur leadership nor u were sincere when supposedly accepted bi-zonality...

So What's the point of discussing, debating, talking or negotiating anything with u and ur alikes?

Just a waste of time... keep running around the same circles by deluding urselves with ur lies and hypcrisy... u r the god sent innocent angel Hellenes after all...

[Malapapa]

I can't blame and accuse Turkey for what happened both pre-1974 and afterwards...

Presumably you can't blame and accuse Nazi Germany for invading Poland in 1939, to reverse Germany's territorial losses in the First World War, to liberate the German speaking minority living there, and to establish a greater German nation that would unite German speaking people.

Here's a quote of Hitler from the time which I'm sure you admire:

Our strength is our speed and our brutality. Genghis Khan chased millions of women and children to death, consciously and with a happy heart. History sees him only as a great founder of states... I have mobilised my Skull Squads ... with the command to unpityingly and mercilessly send men, women and children of Polish descent and language to death. This is the only way to gain the living space which we need. Who is still talking today about the extinction of the Armenians?

[Oracle]

Most TC's are not happy with Turkey's attitude towards the TRNC, although it's supposed to be an independent country, there are numerous aspects that contradict Turkey's stance. .

And there are ZERO aspects which support Turk-TCs' stance that this illegally occupied territory has any semblance of sovereignty!

Why don't you stop with this Sisyphic torture and actively oppose Turkey's sabotage of your future (and in part, ours)?

[insan]

I can't blame and accuse Turkey for what happened both pre-1974 and afterwards...

Presumably you can't blame and accuse Nazi Germany for invading Poland in 1939, to reverse Germany's territorial losses in the First World War, to liberate the German speaking minority living there, and to establish a greater German nation that would unite German speaking people.

Here's a quote of Hitler from the time which I'm sure you admire:

Our strength is our speed and our brutality. Genghis Khan chased millions of women and children to death, consciously and with a happy heart. History sees him only as a great founder of states... I have mobilised my Skull Squads ... with the command to unpityingly and mercilessly send men, women and children of Polish descent and language to death. This is the only way to gain the living space which we need. Who is still talking today about the extinction of the Armenians?

Malapapa, stop comparing ur nuts with our pirillis and tell me what should Turkey do... how should she restore the constitution and leave?

By simply forcing TCs to accept minority status and bugger off back to Turkey?

Maybe before forcing TCs to accept minority status, she would have to launch a 3rd phase of intervention and kill/arrest all EOKA-B and Grivasites/Enosists who were financially and politically supporting EOKA-B? Then she would have given u a lot of propaganda shit to complain to the world how Turkey massacred thousands of innocent Cypriots?

Study consociational democracy well, besides why most of the Greeks and GCs hate so much to hear the word Turk even if it is in the context of the definition of Turkish Cypriot and come back...

Ps: How could a bunch of EOKA-B terrorists threaten regular Greek army, Greek government, Makarios with waging a guerilla warfare and causing a civil war in GC community even after the fall of junta and newly installed "official" governments both in Greece and South Cyprus?

Why had to Makarios accept the pre-conditions of bunch of EOKA-B terrorists since u claim majority of GCs didn't support them? Why couldn't the huge Greek army and so-called GCNG arrest the bunch of EOKA-B terrorists after the fall of junta and surrendered the demands of these bunch of terrorists?

Who were protecting these terrorists after the fall of junta until 1977?


No GCs or Greeks answered my above raised questions until now... hope u can answer if u have any knowledge regarding those issues of course...