Cyprus-Forum.com

[erolz]

I am keen that we do more than just discuss things here. Hence my keeness to have face to face meetings (is it time for another one btw?).

So on this theme I have been thinking of other things we could consider trying. Here is one suggestion for people to discuss and consider (if they want too).

Basicaly I attended a funeral not so long ago. It was in an 'international' cemetary that was next to a GC cemetary in the north. I could not help but notice the sorry state of the GC cemetary. It was not desecrated but it also was not cared for, with weeds all over the place and some of the headstones in need of repair. At the time I thought to myself I would go down for a couple of hours one sunday and do some tidying up. I have not done this yet I have to admit, but it strikes me that if we could get some of us togeather then we could do it togeather. Maybe even as a monthly or bi weekly thing, with a GC cemetary in the north one month and a TC cemetary in the south another. This to me would be real postive action and a gesture of goodwill and an indication that despite our differences we can still work togeather and do some 'good'.

What do people think? WOuld anyone be willing to do this with me?

[magikthrill]

that is definitely a sign of goodwill but also quite creepy if you ask me. it also seems like a full time job to take care of a cemetery rather than a one week thing.

i still say the best way to get things going i sby opening a mixed club the ledra zone. very hip and posh. since from my understanding everyone who lives in Cyprus is bored of everything there im sure they will try it out.

a TC and a GC partner working together to rip off their fellow human beings.

[erolz]

that is definitely a sign of goodwill but also quite creepy if you ask me. it also seems like a full time job to take care of a cemetery rather than a one week thing.

Whether we make any noticeable impact on the state of the cemetary is for me a side benefit not the core objective. The core objective would be to find something that people of both sides can work on togeather, on both sides that promotes respect of each other and cooperation. Having said that I have little doubt that if 4 or 5 people went at the cemetary that promting this thinking in me for a couple of hours there would be a noticeable improvment in it's state. Even as a one of this is of some value. As a monthly thing more so.

i still say the best way to get things going i sby opening a mixed club the ledra zone. very hip and posh. since from my understanding everyone who lives in Cyprus is bored of everything there im sure they will try it out.

a TC and a GC partner working together to rip off their fellow human beings.

My idea could be acted on tomorrow if there were the people willing to give up a couple of hours of their time - one off or every month or so. Yours to me seems a lot harder to 'get togeather'. Firslty permission to opne a club in the ledra zone. Secondly you are talking about a commercial business and that's not easy thing. I am interested in any ideas that can get us working togeather increasing mutual knowledge of each other and breaking down barriers. I just do not know how I would begin to persue your suggestion.

[Piratis]

Sorry to "brake in", but I have a question:

How do you think this meetings will help? Do you think they can help even slightly and give even one chance in the million that you would agree that there is no need to keep Cyprus partitioned (disguised or standard), and that all Cypriots can be equal individuals in one and only state without discrimination based on race?

Do you think there is even a slight chance to agree for this, even after long (but predefined) transitional periods so our grandchildren will be able to live in one united country without such kind of discriminations?

If the meetings can have even 1 millionth of a chance to help even slightly for this happening, then it worths it. Otherwise I think not only they don't help, but they actually harm.

[erolz]

Sorry to "brake in", but I have a question:

? Break away - thats the whole point of the forum.

How do you think this meetings will help? Do you think they can help even slightly and give even one chance in the million that you would agree that there is no need to keep Cyprus partitioned (disguised or standard), and that all Cypriots can be equal individuals in one and only state without discrimination based on race?

You mean unless there is a chance that this action will deliver exactly whay you want - ie no partition, no rights for the TC community to have an effective say in controlling their own futures, just a GC state with a TC minority - then you have no interest in the idea? So be it

Do you think there is even a slight chance to agree for this, even after long (but predefined) transitional periods so our grandchildren will be able to live in one united country without such kind of discriminations?

If the meetings can have even 1 millionth of a chance to help even slightly for this happening, then it worths it. Otherwise I think not only they don't help, but they actually harm.

The idea would be to work togeahter doing something worthwhile outside and irresepctive of our poltical differences. If you can not see how doing so can only increase the chances of us resolving our pooltical differences then I dispair. I also can not see what harm such an effort on the part of some TC and GC could possibly do? Would you care to enlighten me?

[Piratis]

I also can not see what harm such an effort on the part of some TC and GC could possibly do? Would you care to enlighten me?

Sure.
If you would anyways insist to force in Cyprus partition and something undemocratic and racist, where your 18% minority will have 50% power then why would I want to know you?

It would be much harder to kill you if we know you, which is probably your aim, to make it harder for us to reclaim our 100% legal rights. This is why it is harmful.

You used force to take away our land, and we have every right to do so also to reclaim it.

If you do not aprove force against us then you should stop supporting the illegal occupation of our land that forcefully keeps the legal owners away from their homes. If you support force against us, then I also support force against you.

[erolz]

It would be much harder to kill you if we know you, which is probably your aim, to make it harder for us to reclaim our 100% legal rights. This is why it is harmful.

Ideas like the one I suggested could make it harder for us to kill each other and you think that is a bad thing ???????????????

If you do not aprove force against us then you should stop supporting the illegal occupation of our land that forcefully keeps the legal owners away from their homes. If you support force against us, then I also support force against you.

I personaly would not use violence against anyone, regardless of their use of violence against me and that is the difference between us. You are happy to maintain a cycle of violence and I am not. If you do not believe me why not come to the next meeting of forum members and punch me in the face and see how I react? I do not fear your threats of violence against me. I will not forgoe my rights becuase of either the threat of violence or the exercise of it and neither will I resort to violence in return to resist you.

[metecyp]

Erol, I like your idea and I wish I could be in Cyprus to help you. The situation of cemeteries on both sides bother me as well and cleaning these cemetries on both sides would be nothing but good for the relationship between the two communities.

It's a shame that many people on both sides, like Piratis, end up getting into political discussions at every chance. I believe that many good things can be done for Cyprus and Cypriots without getting into any political debates and this is one of them. Maybe we can start a seperate thread to discuss what concrete actions we can take as a forum (or at least part of it) to make Cyprus a better place without having to argue about 18% getting 50-50 power or all refugees returning...

[cannedmoose]

Erol, I like your idea and I wish I could be in Cyprus to help you. The situation of cemeteries on both sides bother me as well and cleaning these cemetries on both sides would be nothing but good for the relationship between the two communities.

I second that... if I was there I would definitely help as these people deserve respect no matter what their ethnic origin was. Small steps folks... small steps...

I was also put out by the fact that Piratis yet again used a totally unrelated thread to move onto his 82-18 mantra... as a moderator you'd hope for a more conciliatory approach. Erol isn't trying to solve the problem by doing this, but is encouraging meetings between the two sides with a common purpose, rather than simply for a good row. If anything, that should be applauded.

[Piratis]

I personaly would not use violence against anyone, regardless of their use of violence against me and that is the difference between us.

The difference between us is that I talk straight, while you are a hypocrite that while you support the illegalities that forcefully keep 200.000 people away from their homes you claim that you supposedly do not like violence.

You are happy to maintain a cycle of violence and I am not.

Of course you are not now, because you are in the round that you are winning. What about in 1974? You didn't support to maintain the circle of violence then? Don't you come in here to tell us that the invasion was excused? So please, don't pretend to be the virgin Mary.

If you do not believe me why not come to the next meeting of forum members and punch me in the face and see how I react?

What would I gain by punching you in the face? The point is not using force just to use it. The point is that we maintain our right to use force to get back what you illegally stole from us by force, if this is the only way we can do it and everything else fails.

I do not fear your threats of violence against me.

There was no thread against you personally. When I say "you" I mean all those that support the use of force against us.

I will not forgoe my rights becuase of either the threat of violence or the exercise of it and neither will I resort to violence in return to resist you.

I didn't ask you to forgo any of your rights. We just want our land and our rights that you illegally took from us and now you use force to maintain this illegality and injustice.