Cyprus-Forum.com

[Kikapu]

At the time the Annan Plan was the best offer available for most GCs - then the late Tpapa managed to change their minds.

deniz you admitted the plan was flawed...did Tpaps managed to change your mind?...or you had enough foresight...

From my view point (I hate that word) it was flawed. I was surprised at the number of GCs that did vote for it. I saw it that it was unjust, but perhaps the villagers only saw 'peace' and did not appreciate the implications till it was spread out and explained to them. I doubt if many of the 'yes' voters had the benefit of reading it and understanding it.

or maybe they were greedy little pigs at the expense of a future conflict...

I don't think that was the case for the majority "YES" voters, Boomer. The whole AP's final version, all 9,000+ pages were only available for the public to absorb couple of weeks before the referendum. That would be like asking people to read War & Peace in couple of days and then to write an essay on it. The whole plan was to scare the GCs shitless of what would happen if they said OXI, things like, the north will get official partition with recognition, the north will have free and direct flights, Turkey will occupy the whole island if the RoC became an EU member without the north, many will be able to return to their homes and land. Of course that was the same for the TCs, but they had nothing to lose by saying "YES", because they thought they would gain all those things that the GCs were threaten with as well as Erdogan doing virtual back flips several times on the AP's final version. The TCs had nothing to lose but everything to gain, no matter what Denktash may have said after the fact. I bet he was first to vote "YES" on the AP. By and large, most GCs were being conned to say "YES". After 5 years and all the truth came out on what the AP was all about, I doubt many of the "YES" voters in 2004 would say YES today on the same AP as it was in 2004. The next referendum better prepare the public much better than the last time.

[boomerang]

At the time the Annan Plan was the best offer available for most GCs - then the late Tpapa managed to change their minds.

deniz you admitted the plan was flawed...did Tpaps managed to change your mind?...or you had enough foresight...

From my view point (I hate that word) it was flawed. I was surprised at the number of GCs that did vote for it. I saw it that it was unjust, but perhaps the villagers only saw 'peace' and did not appreciate the implications till it was spread out and explained to them. I doubt if many of the 'yes' voters had the benefit of reading it and understanding it.

or maybe they were greedy little pigs at the expense of a future conflict...

I don't think that was the case for the majority "YES" voters, Boomer. The whole AP's final version, all 9,000+ pages were only available for the public to absorb couple of weeks before the referendum. That would be like asking people to read War & Peace in couple of days and then to write an essay on it. The whole plan was to scare the GCs shitless of what would happen if they said OXI, things like, the north will get official partition with recognition, the north will have free and direct flights, Turkey will occupy the whole island if the RoC became an EU member without the north, many will be able to return to their homes and land. Of course that was the same for the TCs, but they had nothing to lose by saying "YES", because they thought they would gain all those things that the GCs were threaten with as well as Erdogan doing virtual back flips several times on the AP's final version. The TCs had nothing to lose but everything to gain, no matter what Denktash may have said after the fact. I bet he was first to vote "YES" on the AP. By and large, most GCs were being conned to say "YES". After 5 years and all the truth came out on what the AP was all about, I doubt many of the "YES" voters in 2004 would say YES today on the same AP as it was in 2004. The next referendum better prepare the public much better than the last time.

I know kiks it's just if the same plan came around snappy would vote yes again that's the problem...and to add salt to injury he makes this thread to show what exactly...that he equates himself with 2 heroic cypriots that laid thier lifes on the line for the good of their homeland?...the question begs, is snappy in the same league as these 2 heroic individuals?...

by his damn actions, and I would understand if he is an uneductated person, but the funny thing he is educated...don't you find this strange?...

more over you got goofball coming to his aid with guns blazing not comprehending to say the least what this thread is all about...go figure...

[miltiades]

Boomboy , I opposed the AP , Bananiot used his democratic right and voted for it. I have the highest respect for him , more so that he has not succumbed to your insults in retaliating .
Easy man , the guy is a well educated and knowledgeable individual , you know nothing about him so in the words of MILTY DONT BE SUCH A PLONKER>

failing to see the obvious makes you a goofball and snappy a gloryfied babysitter

you are such a goofball that you also failed to see the heroic actions of 2 cypriots putting their lives on the line for the good of their homeland unlike snappy that tried to sell it to the highest bidder...
these true cypriots will be turning in their grave, upon hearing anyone selling theire homeland to the highest bidder...there death was in vain ...bloody hell and you call me a plonker?....

What on earth are on about Plonker !!

well goofball if you were to start reading from the first post you wouldn't be asking such a question...

but then again reading might not be enough in your case, comprehension skills might be eluding you as well...

Are all Australian Cypriots as stupid as you are mate >
I stated clearly that I opposed the AP and defended the right of those who supported it as their democratic right . You persist in calling those who voted yes as ...goofballs !!
Plonker , show due respect to those that exercised their democratic right and voted yes.

as I said earlier comprehension skills have eluded you big time...the goofball is you...bananiot is snappy...now you get it?...I am sorry can't make it any simpler than that...

Must try having more Kangaroo sausages then , might help increase my ..comprehension skills !

[boomerang]

Boomboy , I opposed the AP , Bananiot used his democratic right and voted for it. I have the highest respect for him , more so that he has not succumbed to your insults in retaliating .
Easy man , the guy is a well educated and knowledgeable individual , you know nothing about him so in the words of MILTY DONT BE SUCH A PLONKER>

failing to see the obvious makes you a goofball and snappy a gloryfied babysitter

you are such a goofball that you also failed to see the heroic actions of 2 cypriots putting their lives on the line for the good of their homeland unlike snappy that tried to sell it to the highest bidder...
these true cypriots will be turning in their grave, upon hearing anyone selling theire homeland to the highest bidder...there death was in vain ...bloody hell and you call me a plonker?....

What on earth are on about Plonker !!

well goofball if you were to start reading from the first post you wouldn't be asking such a question...

but then again reading might not be enough in your case, comprehension skills might be eluding you as well...

Are all Australian Cypriots as stupid as you are mate >
I stated clearly that I opposed the AP and defended the right of those who supported it as their democratic right . You persist in calling those who voted yes as ...goofballs !!
Plonker , show due respect to those that exercised their democratic right and voted yes.

Perhaps if Bananiot manages to post once without refering to those "fascists" that disagree with him then people might refrain from name-calling. The fact that Bananiot is the only one that has "partitioned" the Cypriot population into fascists and true-cypriots speaks volumes when he accusses others of name-calling those that voted yes.

I have never had an issue with those that voted yes but Bananiot's view of those that voted no are that they are fascists at worse or plain stupid who were misled by Papadopoulos at best.

I have nothing against Bananiot personally but all this hypocricy aimed at pre-emptive striking this time round aided by a sense of frustration from the last time round, needs to stop.

you saved me the ime in searching DT...when i get some time I will prove snappy, in his own words, how many times he labelled people that disagree with him on the annan plan, what he called them...from memory, fascists, sheep, and more to come...thanks man..

[FragnaticDeath]

I am pretty sure bananiot is not even a cypriot just a turkish cypriot claiming he is cypriot.

Miltiadis you havent been to cyprus for how long? And what i mean by that as a citizen

[boomerang]

Boomboy , I opposed the AP , Bananiot used his democratic right and voted for it. I have the highest respect for him , more so that he has not succumbed to your insults in retaliating .
Easy man , the guy is a well educated and knowledgeable individual , you know nothing about him so in the words of MILTY DONT BE SUCH A PLONKER>

failing to see the obvious makes you a goofball and snappy a gloryfied babysitter

you are such a goofball that you also failed to see the heroic actions of 2 cypriots putting their lives on the line for the good of their homeland unlike snappy that tried to sell it to the highest bidder...
these true cypriots will be turning in their grave, upon hearing anyone selling theire homeland to the highest bidder...there death was in vain ...bloody hell and you call me a plonker?....

What on earth are on about Plonker !!

well goofball if you were to start reading from the first post you wouldn't be asking such a question...

but then again reading might not be enough in your case, comprehension skills might be eluding you as well...

Are all Australian Cypriots as stupid as you are mate >
I stated clearly that I opposed the AP and defended the right of those who supported it as their democratic right . You persist in calling those who voted yes as ...goofballs !!
Plonker , show due respect to those that exercised their democratic right and voted yes.

as I said earlier comprehension skills have eluded you big time...the goofball is you...bananiot is snappy...now you get it?...I am sorry can't make it any simpler than that...

Must try having more Kangaroo sausages then , might help increase my ..comprehension skills !

It's been alleged comprehension skills elude a man who eats a kangaroo dangling sausage...

[B25]

Boomboy , I opposed the AP , Bananiot used his democratic right and voted for it. I have the highest respect for him , more so that he has not succumbed to your insults in retaliating .
Easy man , the guy is a well educated and knowledgeable individual , you know nothing about him so in the words of MILTY DONT BE SUCH A PLONKER>

Kupie Miltiadi,

by the same token didn't 76% of the Greek Cypriot do the same, but in Bana's eyes they are facists, bash patriots, cretins, morons, idiots, scum as he calls us all and that would include you and Deniz and you also voted NO.

Are the GCs so unworthy of democracy and human rights that Bana can decide for them what they should vote.

he has the audacity to demonise TPAP, but he does the same thing.

Bana did want to gift this country to the UK and Turkey, it is so obvious yet he insists we should have listened to him. You know as well as I do, if that dreded plan have been adopted, we would be back to square one and the 60's all over again. It may have been the best plan we had then, but thats because all the others were also shit, so that doesn't make it the RIGHT plan does it. It was never a solution, it was a 'shut the GCs up' plan. We were not born yesterday, we tripped over this in 1960, we were not going to do it again.

I agree with the title he has earned (and well deserved) that given to him by Boomers and many others here.

Btw, you do not necessaily have to know someone to judge them, what they write says alot about them.

I think you need to reserve your famous expression for him and him alone.

Good evening to you.

[miltiades]

Boomboy , I opposed the AP , Bananiot used his democratic right and voted for it. I have the highest respect for him , more so that he has not succumbed to your insults in retaliating .
Easy man , the guy is a well educated and knowledgeable individual , you know nothing about him so in the words of MILTY DONT BE SUCH A PLONKER>

Kupie Miltiadi,

by the same token didn't 76% of the Greek Cypriot do the same, but in Bana's eyes they are facists, bash patriots, cretins, morons, idiots, scum as he calls us all and that would include you and Deniz and you also voted NO.

Are the GCs so unworthy of democracy and human rights that Bana can decide for them what they should vote.

he has the audacity to demonise TPAP, but he does the same thing.

Bana did want to gift this country to the UK and Turkey, it is so obvious yet he insists we should have listened to him. You know as well as I do, if that dreded plan have been adopted, we would be back to square one and the 60's all over again. It may have been the best plan we had then, but thats because all the others were also shit, so that doesn't make it the RIGHT plan does it. It was never a solution, it was a 'shut the GCs up' plan. We were not born yesterday, we tripped over this in 1960, we were not going to do it again.

I agree with the title he has earned (and well deserved) that given to him by Boomers and many others here.

Btw, you do not necessaily have to know someone to judge them, what they write says alot about them.

I think you need to reserve your famous expression for him and him alone.

Good evening to you.

I do believe that he has never denied anyone their democratic right to cast their vote as they see fit.
I vehemently opposed the AP on the grounds mainly that the AP was presented to the people as a unifying plan when in fact my own perception was that it was a plan that legalized the Turkish invasion as well as solidifying the division of our island and most importantly it contained dynamite loaded divisions that would in the future , not the too distant either , erupt with dire consequences. One such division was the apportioning of police stations , the roads division , the Turkish guarantor status and much more.

Bananiot and I have met a number of times , the fact that we differed on this issue did not in any way affect our views on important aspects such as the desire to see our nation totally independent of foreign intervention , to see Cyprus relinquishing the restraining self imposed chains and to be proud as a nation in its own right as indeed it is an independent nation.
Neither he nor I bear any animosity towards our fellow compatriots the T/Cs and wish nothing more than to see our island united and all our people secure and free from foreign domination.

No two people who are in charge of their own logic and under no pressure from any source to follow a common ground would ever concur on everything , this is after all what makes each and everyone of us an individual.

[Piratis]

People had their reasons for voting yes, and they had there reasons for voting no. Of course there will always be the sheep that will vote whatever their party (not the president) tells them. But if you consider that 66% of DISY supporters voted "no" despite their leadership asking from them to vote "yes", you can see that the "sheep" are not as many as some would think.

The reasons for voting "no" were many and they had to do with the plan itself which was unfair, undemocratic and dysfunctional and would actually officially divide Cyprus instead of uniting it.

On the other hand most of the "GCs" who voted "yes" did not do so because they believed that it was a good plan. The reasons they voted yes were:

1) They believed that this was the "last chance" for a solution, and (wrongly) decided that Annan plan was better than any alternative. The "last chance" theory is already proven wrong since the "trnc" didn't become a Taiwan as some claimed, and today TCs and Turkey need a solution even more than they did in 2004. Any solution today will be better than Annan plan (although it remains to be seen if it will be good enough).

2) Many of them voted what they knew was a bad plan with the false hope that we would be able to challenge several of its provisions in the ECHR and EU, and gradually change it to something better. This is something very dangerous, and those who thought in that way seems that they learned nothing from our history.

Yet some others thought that such changes could be achieved in the future after GCs and TCs would become good friends. They didn't realize that the Annan plan would maintain the division and antagonism between the two sides, and it seems they know nothing about human psychology if they thought that groups of people can abandon voluntarily their privileges.

3) A small minority of those who votes yes did so just because they had property in the 6% of territory that would (theoretically) be returned and this was the deciding factor for them. I am not in the position to criticize these people.

4) And then there are the Bananiots. These people are like the sheep I talked about earlier, but their decisions are not determined by what parties say, but by what the AngloAmericans order. These people believe that we should do whatever we are ordered without saying a word. I call this the "slave mentality".

[B25]

Milti, thank you for your response, however, you are wrong on a couple of aspects.

1. Bana does not accept the democratic vote of the overwhelming population as resorts to insults to these people as stated. He wanted hi vote and his was yet has the cheek to complain.

2. we all want a unified and peaceful country, don't misunderstand the anti Bananiot comments, we are for a JUST SLOUTION, not the type that gifts Cyprus to ANY foreign nation unlike banas desires.

Essentially, well from me anyway, any animosity shown is directed at the few neopartitionists such as VP, Yfred and Insan, who wish to gain at our expense. I don't have or know any TCs so I cannot gauge there thought process, but I do know what the few here are thinking. Afterall, VP is supposed to be representative of the 'Average TC' as we have been told by Bir.

To me bananiots action sicken me to the core and if this was back in the 1955 -59 era he would be one of those that would go along with the British with a 'sakoula' over his head and point. I trust you know what I mean. I detest the man, never met him, never want to, what he writes here is enough to tell me exactly the type of person he is and I am ashamed to say he is a GC. What troubles me even more is what drives him to forsake us over them. Can you explain that to me??