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Excellent post by Birkibrisli everyone should read it.

How can we solve it? (keep it civilized)

Postby Oracle » Sat Dec 12, 2009 9:31 pm

Expatkiwi wrote:
Piratis wrote:What he does not understand is that the price he is asking from us to pay in order to save his community is way too high. Human rights and democracy are extremely valuable things and we are not going to sacrifice what is most important to save TCs from their self-destruction.


Ironic comment, Piratis. That's exactly the expressed view from the other side. The TC's think the price that the GC side demands is way too high. Someone once said that the art of diplomacy is to leave both sides equally dissatisfied. Maybe both side should strive for such 'mutual dissatisfaction" if the impasse is to be broken.


This is when a wise person would weigh up the facts and evidence. Just because the TCs shout their cause loudest, whilst sitting in GC homes, it doesn't mean they are right, does it?
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Postby Expatkiwi » Sat Dec 12, 2009 10:11 pm

Oracle wrote:
This is when a wise person would weigh up the facts and evidence. Just because the TCs shout their cause loudest, whilst sitting in GC homes, it doesn't mean they are right, does it?


True. loudest simply means loudest, but the situation on the island isn't that simple. It would be easy for me to shout either "I'll go with the flow and support the GC position", or "what the heck: the partition stopped the intercommunal violence so lets keep it that way". Also, it had been pointed out to me that had the 1974 coup succeeded, GC's would be sitting in TC homes instead, so in that context, does it really matter who shouts?
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Postby Oracle » Sat Dec 12, 2009 10:52 pm

Expatkiwi wrote:
Oracle wrote:
This is when a wise person would weigh up the facts and evidence. Just because the TCs shout their cause loudest, whilst sitting in GC homes, it doesn't mean they are right, does it?


True. loudest simply means loudest, but the situation on the island isn't that simple. It would be easy for me to shout either "I'll go with the flow and support the GC position", or "what the heck: the partition stopped the intercommunal violence so lets keep it that way". Also, it had been pointed out to me that had the 1974 coup succeeded, GC's would be sitting in TC homes instead, so in that context, does it really matter who shouts?


Obviously you prefer fiction and fantasy over facts ....
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Postby Expatkiwi » Sat Dec 12, 2009 11:14 pm

Oracle wrote:
Obviously you prefer fiction and fantasy over facts ....


Oracle, That's not true. What I'm trying to say is that people listen to louder arguments more if they are supportive of that the shouters are saying. You're right in that facts must be the only things to make a judgement on.
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Postby YFred » Sun Dec 13, 2009 12:13 am

Expatkiwi wrote:
Oracle wrote:
Obviously you prefer fiction and fantasy over facts ...
Hisssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss.


Oracle, That's not true. What I'm trying to say is that people listen to louder arguments more if they are supportive of that the shouters are saying. You're right in that facts must be the only things to make a judgement on.

Expat, have you not figured out yet that Oracle just loves to argue and she will argue you to death.
You've got some patience man.
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Postby Oracle » Sun Dec 13, 2009 12:18 am

Expatkiwi wrote:
Oracle wrote:
Obviously you prefer fiction and fantasy over facts ....


Oracle, That's not true. What I'm trying to say is that people listen to louder arguments more if they are supportive of that the shouters are saying. You're right in that facts must be the only things to make a judgement on.


In that case, do yourself a favour and look at the facts staring you in the face. The TCs are oppressing the GCs and our Human Rights by holding on to nearly half of Cyprus, 80% of which is the property of GCs.

So ask yourself, and with the available evidence, why was it ever any different? Why is it the TCs are oppressing the GCs? Well, if you look at the independent evidence available from the past, you will see that the TCs have ALWAYS oppressed the GCs. It was never any different. It's just another facet of that continual oppression they have been forcing upon us for over 400 years. It's another shade of grey. They oppressed us as slaves for hundreds of years: then they oppressed us as auxiliaries for the Brits; and then they bombed and killed us when we tried to gain Democracy and equality for ourselves from the restrictions imposed (only) on the GCs. Things don't change that much Expat. This has been the story of Cyprus ever since the Ottomans arrived. Which is why perhaps more of us are now hanging on for the 100% right solution because we deserve it. We deserve our freedom like any other group of human beings. We do not deserve a foreign country invading us and racially ethnically cleansing us after killing thousands (specifically and selectively) of GCs ... it's just more of the same! More TC oppression of GCs; and then covered up with lies from an uncheckable past. Look what is happening now. This is what has always happened. The TCs are STILL oppressing us! Wake up if you have any vestiges of "integrity" you wish to save; stop letting them make a fool of you ... Think back to how a small (white) minority held South Africa to ransom and controlled and oppressed the majority who were the natives, the Africans. Yes minorities can wield huge oppressive power. They have been lording it over us for hundreds of years. And you can see (a fact) they are STILL doing the same to this day. Nothing has changed!

And I'll change my signature if you at least quiz yourself that you may, just may, have been misled by them ...
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Postby Expatkiwi » Sun Dec 13, 2009 1:06 am

Then Oracle, how can you justify such things that the TC's claim were inflicted upon them by the GC's. This is what I can't understand: is it okay when GC's cross the line?
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Postby Oracle » Sun Dec 13, 2009 1:07 am

Expatkiwi wrote:Then Oracle, how can you justify such things that the TC's claim were inflicted upon them by the GC's. This is what I can't understand: is it okay when GC's cross the line?


Hyperbole .... nothing was "inflicted" on the TCs which was not part of the oppressed GCs right to defend themselves against hundreds of years of Turkish enslavement. We are only fighting for basic freedom ... nothing has changed!

Keep looking at the facts and not merely listening to their exaggerated lies ...

What you see today is a sample of what they have ALWAYS done to us. Nothing has changed. Turkish oppression of GCs continues!
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Postby Expatkiwi » Sun Dec 13, 2009 4:52 am

Oracle, there were GC extremists who targeted Turkish Cypriots. Surely you don't condone that...
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Postby Paphitis » Sun Dec 13, 2009 5:29 am

Expatkiwi wrote:Oracle, there were GC extremists who targeted Turkish Cypriots. Surely you don't condone that...


I think you are getting confused again.....

First signs of intercommunal Violence


The first signs of intercommunal conflict on the island appeared when the British conscripted Turkish Cypriots into the police force that patrolled Cyprus. Arif Hasan Tahsin a Turkish Cypriot that joined the Colonial police, a member of TMT and eventually rose as the number two in hierarchy of the Turkish Cypriots in his book: "It is a fact that the Turks fought against Greek Cypriots not just because they wanted Enosis". EOKA would target colonial authorities including police men. Both British and Turkish police men would die in exchange of fire. The eventual death of Turkish Cypriot policemen were met with anti-Greek riots by the Turkish community while the British authorities remained passive. Greek stores and neighborhoods would be burned and Greek civilians would be injured or killed. Such events created chaos and brought the communities apart both in Cyprus and in Turkey.

On the 22nd of October 1957 Sir Hugh Mackintosh Foot replaced Sir John Harding as the British Governor of Cyprus. Foot suggested five to seven years of self-government before any final decision. His plan rejected both enosis and taksim. The Turkish Cypriot response to this plan was a series of anti-British demonstrations in Nicosia on 27th and 28th of January 1958 rejecting the proposed plan because the plan rejected partition. The British then withdrew the plan.

In June 1958 the British prime Minister Harold Macmillan was expected to proposed a plan to resolve the Cyprus issue. In light of the new development the Turks created fierce riots in Nicosia aiming to promote the idea that Greeks and Turks could not live together and therefore any plan that would promote that would not be viable, instead partition would be the only viable solution. This violence soon to be followed by bombing, Greek Cypriots deaths and looting of Greek owned stores and houses resulted in Greeks and Turks started to evade mixed populated villages that the respective were a minority in search of safety. This was effectively the beginning of segregation of the two communities. On the 7th of June 1958 a bomb exploded at the entrance of the Turkish Embassy in Cyprus. Following the bombing Turkish Cypriots looted Greek Cypriot properties. On June 26 1984 the then Turkish Cypriot Leader, Rauf Denktaş, admitted on British channel ITV that the bomb was placed by the Turks themselves in order to create tension. On the 27th of January 1958 riots by Turkish Cypriots forced the British Colonial soldiers to open fire against the Turkish crowd, and for the first time intervene against the atrocities. The events continued until the next day. During the events Arif Tahsin met Rauf Denktaş and asked: "For God sake give the order for the killings to stop". Denktaş replied : "These killings are useful, with these our voices will be heard". By 1958 signs of dissatisfaction with the British increased on both sides, with Turkish Cypriots now forming Volkan, later known as the TMT paramilitary group as a means of promoting partition and the annexation of Cyprus to Turkey as dictated by the Menteres plan. TMT would also target Turkish Cypriots and then blame the Greek Cypriots for the killing and also accuse the British Colonial rule that effective measures were not taken to protect the Turkish minority.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Expat, you need to do some more research! :?

Even your mate DonkTosh has a better grasp of the facts than you do!
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