Cyprus-Forum.com

[BirKibrisli]

I hope you are exaggerating re the systematic desecration of Christian graves in the North,MP...Otherwise it will be very sad indeed...I don't know,as I havent been to the North for 10 years...

I'm afraid there has been widespread desecration and vandalism of Greek Cypriot cemetries in the north of Cyprus. I have seen it first-hand. We are talking about the wanton vandalism of entire sites where no grave has been left undamaged. As soon as Greek Cypriots were able to travel north to visit their former villages many attempted to repair and tidy up the graveyards only to find on the next visit that they had been destroyed again.

Of course this is just part of a pattern to eradicate the presence of Greeks in the north. The looting and systematic desecration of Greek churches is well documented. It leaves many Greek Cypriots with little doubt as to the real intentions of the authorities in the north. The Turkish population of northern Cyprus shows little restraint and are free to exercise their visceral hatred for the land and culture in which they claim to be equal partners. A strange and disturbing state of affairs.

Then what is happening is nothing less than historical and cultural vandalism...i would hang my head in shame at such a sight...
Just one point: you cannot really talk about "the Turkish population of Northern Cyprus" You have real Turkish Cypriots,new Turkish Cypriots,and the settlers...The real TCs are very much in the minority(80,000 out of 350,000),and i would hope they would condemn such acts as much as I would...

[BirKibrisli]

thats fair enough mate you had a reason...not saying they didn't destroy the graveyards...just saying you had no reason as a tourist and it wouldn't even come up a conversation...after saying this the forum is littered with posts and pictures...bir deserves the benefit of a doubt...I think it's fair...

There is no defense for telling blatant lies....

If he didn't see all the historical and cultural destruction that has occurred in the occupied territories, then he is either blind or not telling the truth.

Paphidis...
I was last in the trnc back in 1999...It was for 7 days...I have a very large family back in Cyprus,some of whom are not talking to some of the others..I spent a very stressful week,trying not to offend anyone,and not to put on too much weight from all those meals i was expected to consume...I did not visit any Christian cemeteries, I had no reason to.. I do remember now visiting the Turkish cemetery in Nicosia where all my grandparents are buried...

[BirKibrisli]

I have had a few holidays in the north. I accidentally looked at a Greek Cypriot cemetary. I hung my head in shame as I pointed out the broken crosses to my wife.
One does not seek out cemeteries, but only for a purpose. That is to pray for their souls or to remember the past members of ones family and friends. Bir ancestors would be in Istinjo and not in the north. (except the aunt we share).

thats what I am trying to say Deniz...unless you had a reason you wouldn't...

anyway getting late

goonight all...

You don't have to go out of your way to see these cemeteries and Churches. They are everywhere.

My wife had a very personal reason to seek this particular cemetery and Church (in Palekythro), but as we traveled we noticed many more.

Good night.

just think for a minute what is Bir's gain by lying on this when the internet is littered with pictures...sweet fuck all...if anything you got stuck into him...give him some credit coz he is not stupid...

not happy?...bir you are a lying bitch...everyone happy...fuck...

I am outta here

Next time I am in the North I will make sure I visit all the cemeteries all over the place...This might be a good excuse to tell my relatives :sorry,cant come to lunch or dinner,I am visiting cemeteries!!!
I will invite GR! along...He might like to help me fix some of the worse affected ones...

[BirKibrisli]

I have had a few holidays in the north. I accidentally looked at a Greek Cypriot cemetary. I hung my head in shame as I pointed out the broken crosses to my wife.
One does not seek out cemeteries, but only for a purpose. That is to pray for their souls or to remember the past members of ones family and friends. Bir ancestors would be in Istinjo and not in the north. (except the aunt we share).

Both my maternal and paternal grandparents are buried in Nicosia,Deniz...
I did visit them in the main cemetery there,but I did not visit any Christian cemeteries,I had no reason to...none of my close relatives live in villages...They are all in Nicosia or in Famagusta...I was only there for 7 days,and it was the middle of August! You did not venture outside unless you had to...Paphidis is being hysterical for no apparent reason...
It is quite amusing!!!

[BirKibrisli]

http://www.cyprus-forum.com/viewtopic.php?t=14581&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=bir+kibrisli+letters+cyprus&start=80


Above is Bir's journal of his visit to Cyprus. I have only managed to re-read half of it and it so far only mentions his visits to ther RoC.

It is still a moving 'journal'.

Deniz, Bir stated that he visited the occupied north 10 years ago, and also stated that claims of systematic desecration were exaggerated.

Bit stated:

I hope you are exaggerating re the systematic desecration of Christian graves in the North,MP...Otherwise it will be very sad indeed...I don't know,as I havent been to the North for 10 years...

It seems he is very willing to point out that the GCs need to acknowledge any wrong doing in the past, yet he is unwilling to acknowledge any wrong doing that still goes on in the present!

He was hoping it was an exageration, but he erred. He still showed regret if it were true. It was true so he regrets and I am sure he condemns the acts - like all decent people do.

I have to agree with Deniz on the interpretation on what Bir said, Paphitis.

What Bir meant by what he said was, he hoped that MP was exaggerating with his claims of desecrated Christian graves (hoping it was not true) in the north and that if MP's claim was not an exaggeration (that it was true what MP claimed), that it was very sad indeed (of such desecration taking place in the north.)

That is my best understanding on what Bir said, and knowing Bir, I do not believe he would mean that the desecrations were an exaggeration just to brush off MP's claim.!

You are spot on,Kikapu..I thought that was obvious from my writing...But if you want to read other things in any ones posts,no force of logic will stop you...Still, to give Paphidis the benefit of the doubt,cemeteries and religious monuments probably mean more to him than the rest of us... Otherwise he wouldnt be judging and executing me without a proper trial...

[BirKibrisli]

Once again Bir prefers to deny any destruction by the Turk-TCs. We've had many threads with ample evidence showing the extent of destruction in the occupied areas and yet he brushes these away, like much else.

It wasn't without such evidence that the GO Church successfully sued Turkey at the ECHR.

But Bir doesn't think Human Rights should be applied to GCs and their properties because the TCs are special and do not have to observe such rituals of civilisation lest they crumble as a community.

There is a saying I like very much " "Beter to keep your mouth shut and let people suspect you have nothing to say,than opening it and removing all doubt..."

[BirKibrisli]

http://www.cyprus-forum.com/viewtopic.php?t=14581&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=bir+kibrisli+letters+cyprus&start=80


Above is Bir's journal of his visit to Cyprus. I have only managed to re-read half of it and it so far only mentions his visits to ther RoC.

It is still a moving 'journal'.

That is one hell of a moving and emotional thread as were the accompanying posts.

Thank you,Eric...much appreciated...

[vaughanwilliams]

There are many abandoned Christian churches and graveyards in TRNC. The churches are in serious need of restoration and there has ben some work done by local and ex-pat communities, supported by the local municipality. The graveyards have fallen into serious dilapidation and there is evidence of vandalism. When this vandalism was carried out and by whom, I couldn't say. Some of these Christian graveyards are side by side with moslem graveyards which are kept in very good condition. It may be that there is a lack of will, both religious and political, by the local municipality to be seen to be spending rate payers money on tending Christian (GO) graveyards. The fact that council rates are low and funds not always there may not help. All of the above is extremely regrettable and it gives me no pleasure at all to see it. If anything, I see it as evidence of Cyprus' recent sad history and we can only hope for better days. I can tell you that as Christians cannot be buried in a moslem graveyard this has caused problems as the ex-pat community grows and ages. The British cemetary in Kyrenia is quite full and the Belediye of Lapta has recently given land over in Lapta, adjoining the moslem graveyard, to allow for Christian graves. This may suggest that the lack of sympathy towards GO graveyards is more an ethnic rather than a religious thing.

[DT.]

There are many abandoned Christian churches and graveyards in TRNC. The churches are in serious need of restoration and there has ben some work done by local and ex-pat communities, supported by the local municipality. The graveyards have fallen into serious dilapidation and there is evidence of vandalism. When this vandalism was carried out and by whom, I couldn't say. Some of these Christian graveyards are side by side with moslem graveyards which are kept in very good condition. It may be that there is a lack of will, both religious and political, by the local municipality to be seen to be spending rate payers money on tending Christian (GO) graveyards. The fact that council rates are low and funds not always there may not help. All of the above is extremely regrettable and it gives me no pleasure at all to see it. If anything, I see it as evidence of Cyprus' recent sad history and we can only hope for better days. I can tell you that as Christians cannot be buried in a moslem graveyard this has caused problems as the ex-pat community grows and ages. The British cemetary in Kyrenia is quite full and the Belediye of Lapta has recently given land over in Lapta, adjoining the moslem graveyard, to allow for Christian graves. This may suggest that the lack of sympathy towards GO graveyards is more an ethnic rather than a religious thing.

Anything we can do to expedite the prompt burial of all British expats in the north please do not hesitate to ask vw.

[vaughanwilliams]

There are many abandoned Christian churches and graveyards in TRNC. The churches are in serious need of restoration and there has ben some work done by local and ex-pat communities, supported by the local municipality. The graveyards have fallen into serious dilapidation and there is evidence of vandalism. When this vandalism was carried out and by whom, I couldn't say. Some of these Christian graveyards are side by side with moslem graveyards which are kept in very good condition. It may be that there is a lack of will, both religious and political, by the local municipality to be seen to be spending rate payers money on tending Christian (GO) graveyards. The fact that council rates are low and funds not always there may not help. All of the above is extremely regrettable and it gives me no pleasure at all to see it. If anything, I see it as evidence of Cyprus' recent sad history and we can only hope for better days. I can tell you that as Christians cannot be buried in a moslem graveyard this has caused problems as the ex-pat community grows and ages. The British cemetary in Kyrenia is quite full and the Belediye of Lapta has recently given land over in Lapta, adjoining the moslem graveyard, to allow for Christian graves. This may suggest that the lack of sympathy towards GO graveyards is more an ethnic rather than a religious thing.

Anything we can do to expedite the prompt burial of all British expats in the north please do not hesitate to ask vw.

What a knob!