Cyprus-Forum.com

[vaughanwilliams]

Anadolu 00:24 8th Dec 2009

http://www.aa.com.tr/en/news/4118.html

Premier Erdogan says withdrawal of troops from Cyprus is out of question.

Who truly is surprised by this statement above? Has Erdogan ever claimed that Turkey would completely withdraw all its troops from Cyprus?

Why do we act surprised by these statements? The Turks / TCs speak with one voice on all matters concerning their positions on Cyprus. They have not deviated one inch from their red lines.

And the GCs have?

[Malapapa]

Anadolu 00:24 8th Dec 2009

http://www.aa.com.tr/en/news/4118.html

Premier Erdogan says withdrawal of troops from Cyprus is out of question.

Who truly is surprised by this statement above? Has Erdogan ever claimed that Turkey would completely withdraw all its troops from Cyprus?

Why do we act surprised by these statements? The Turks / TCs speak with one voice on all matters concerning their positions on Cyprus. They have not deviated one inch from their red lines.

And the GCs have?

Tell me what the "red lines" of Cypriots free from Turkey's iron grip are, vaughan. Let's see how much you really know about the issue.

[vaughanwilliams]

Anadolu 00:24 8th Dec 2009

http://www.aa.com.tr/en/news/4118.html

Premier Erdogan says withdrawal of troops from Cyprus is out of question.

Who truly is surprised by this statement above? Has Erdogan ever claimed that Turkey would completely withdraw all its troops from Cyprus?

Why do we act surprised by these statements? The Turks / TCs speak with one voice on all matters concerning their positions on Cyprus. They have not deviated one inch from their red lines.

And the GCs have?

Tell me what the "red lines" of Cypriots free from Turkey's iron grip are, vaughan. Let's see how much you really know about the issue.

No "suffocating" time frames (Lets keep this going forever. Hopefully the TCs will give in).
No outside interference (They might have some good ideas which will make us look unreasonable).
Do you want more?

[Malapapa]

No "suffocating" time frames (Lets keep this going forever. Hopefully the TCs will give in).
No outside interference (They might have some good ideas which will make us look unreasonable).

Thanks for at least making an attempt vaughan but neither count as red lines; neither would appear in the final agreement, like say "Turkey's guarantee". They are merely preferred approaches to how the negotiations are conducted, given bitter previous experiences, which were to the detriment of all concerned.

A deadline imposed by one or other side (or externally), before one or other side is satisfied with what is agreed, would be counter-productive as both sides need to secure a 'Yes' vote remember?

As for outside interference? Good ideas/suggestions from the outside are welcome and I'm sure are passed on to both leaders. Indeed it was Gordon Brown's suggestion that the solution should be BY and FOR Cypriots, endorsed by the UN, EU and US, ie. free from outside interference.

Do you want more?

Even one would be good.

[vaughanwilliams]

No "suffocating" time frames (Lets keep this going forever. Hopefully the TCs will give in).
No outside interference (They might have some good ideas which will make us look unreasonable).

Thanks for at least making an attempt vaughan but neither count as red lines; neither would appear in the final agreement, like say "Turkey's guarantee". They are merely preferred approaches to how the negotiations are conducted, given bitter previous experiences, which were to the detriment of all concerned.

A deadline imposed by one or other side (or externally), before one or other side is satisfied with what is agreed, would be counter-productive as both sides need to secure a 'Yes' vote remember?

As for outside interference? Good ideas/suggestions from the outside are welcome and I'm sure are passed on to both leaders. Indeed it was Gordon Brown's suggestion that the solution should by BY and FOR Cypriots, endorsed by the UN, EU and US, ie. free from outside interference.

Do you want more?

Even one would be good.

Sorry. My misunderstanding of what is a "Red Line".
As you define them, the red lines are like coins - TC side of the coin is the opposite of the GC side. e.g. You insist TR guarantor status must go - TC's don't agree. This doesn't make the TCs any more obstinate than the GCs.

[miltiades]

No "suffocating" time frames (Lets keep this going forever. Hopefully the TCs will give in).
No outside interference (They might have some good ideas which will make us look unreasonable).

Thanks for at least making an attempt vaughan but neither count as red lines; neither would appear in the final agreement, like say "Turkey's guarantee". They are merely preferred approaches to how the negotiations are conducted, given bitter previous experiences, which were to the detriment of all concerned.

A deadline imposed by one or other side (or externally), before one or other side is satisfied with what is agreed, would be counter-productive as both sides need to secure a 'Yes' vote remember?

As for outside interference? Good ideas/suggestions from the outside are welcome and I'm sure are passed on to both leaders. Indeed it was Gordon Brown's suggestion that the solution should by BY and FOR Cypriots, endorsed by the UN, EU and US, ie. free from outside interference.

Do you want more?

Even one would be good.

Sorry. My misunderstanding of what is a "Red Line".
As you define them, the red lines are like coins - TC side of the coin is the opposite of the GC side. e.g. You insist TR guarantor status must go - TC's don't agree. This doesn't make the TCs any more obstinate than the GCs.

More than 80% of the Cypriot people , including a respectable T/C number consider the Turkish troops to be occupying a part of Cyprus. It seems to me that the British Yobs that have invested in the occupied part of Cyprus care only how their dodgy investment can be protected . Their support of the Turkish position is founded on their insatiable appetite for retaining their ill gotten properties at the expense of the true owner.
You amongst most if not all on who post on the CY44 Forum are in support of Turkey annexing the occupied part for one and only one reason. Greed and the need to retain your dodgy purchasers. Some have suggested forming a "dad's army brigade to fight the G/Cs . What a bunch of yobs , most of them are bastards anyway , well the couple I met recently certainly were !!

[vaughanwilliams]

"You amongst most if not all on who post on the CY44 Forum are in support of Turkey annexing the occupied part...."
Me most of all? I'm not sure if I have ever actually directly supported the annexation of Northern Cyprus, either here or on Cy44. You may have inferred this from some of my postings, but that is your prerogative.

[Malapapa]

Sorry. My misunderstanding of what is a "Red Line".
As you define them, the red lines are like coins - TC side of the coin is the opposite of the GC side. e.g. You insist TR guarantor status must go - TC's don't agree. This doesn't make the TCs any more obstinate than the GCs.

Thanks. Yes. That's certainly a red line. Given that Turkey didn't actually guarantee Cyprus's territorial integrity (as she and Greece and Britain were obliged to do by treaty) but did the exact opposite, the guarantor status of all three countries is, self-evidently, null and void. This isn't obstinacy, it's common sense.

[vaughanwilliams]

Sorry. My misunderstanding of what is a "Red Line".
As you define them, the red lines are like coins - TC side of the coin is the opposite of the GC side. e.g. You insist TR guarantor status must go - TC's don't agree. This doesn't make the TCs any more obstinate than the GCs.

Thanks. Yes. That's certainly a red line. Given that Turkey didn't actually guarantee Cyprus's territorial integrity (as she and Greece and Britain were obliged to do by treaty) but did the exact opposite, the guarantor status of all three countries is, self-evidently, null and void. This isn't obstinacy, it's common sense.

"self-evidently, null and void" is an interesting interpretation. Care to expand on it a bit?

[Malapapa]

What more needs to be said. If you don't actually guarantee what you're meant to guarantee you're no longer a guarantor.

Guarantors of loans stop being guarantors if they don't actually provide the guarantee. More than that, the ex-guarantor is liable to lose their own assets. Bit like what's happening to Turkey.