Cyprus-Forum.com

[Expatkiwi]

Now you tell me, would you take him seriously???

So, what were the pros for the GCs of the Anann Plan, since you think it was the best possible??? Come on don't be shy, let's hear it

I'm flattered that you take me seriously enough for you to try and smear my name. Guess I must be a threat to you, you moron.

[B25]

Come on Dean the cartoon man, tells us then, what was in it for the GCs???


we know what the turks were getting out of it, we wait your response.

here is a one syllabal word for you, twat!

The Annan Plan was to create a new Cypriot confederation of two component states — the Greek Cypriot State and the Turkish Cypriot State — joined together by a minimal federal government apparatus.

Advantage #1 (loose governmental administration)

This federal level, loosely based on the Swiss federal model, would have incorporated the following elements:

A collective Presidential Council, made up of six voting members, allocated according to population (per present levels, four Greek Cypriots and two Turkish Cypriots), and selected and voted in by parliament. An additional three non-voting members would be assigned 2:1.
A President and Vice President, chosen by the Presidential Council from among its members, one from each community, to alternate in their functions every 20 months during the council's five-year term of office.
A bicameral legislature:
A Senate (upper house), with 48 members, divided 24:24 between the two communities.
A Chamber of Deputies (lower house), with 48 members, divided in proportion to the two communities' populations (with no fewer than 12 for the smaller community).
A Supreme Court composed of equal numbers of Greek Cypriot and Turkish Cypriot judges, plus three foreign judges; to be appointed by the Presidential Council.
The plan included a federal constitution, constitutions for each constituent state, and a string of constitutional and federal laws. It also provided for a Reconciliation Commission to bring the two communities closer together and resolve outstanding disputes from the past.

(Advantage #2: A more trustworthy system of governence, checks and balances, and propety settlements)

It would also have established a limited right to return between the territories of the two communities, and it would have allowed both Greece and Turkey to maintain a permanent military presence on the island, albeit with large, phased reductions in troop numbers.

(Advantage #3: No huge number of Turkish Forces, only a limited number of Turkish Settlers allowed to remain)

Other advanatages would have been the end of the buffer zone, Famagusta returned to the Cyprus Greek State, and the enjoyment of all of Cyprus' citizens to the benefit of the EU.

My god man, you are truely sick.

Call these advantages, best laugh I have had, you should stick to your fanrasy stories with cosmo and mamma.

Your first sentance tell us you really don't understand the Cyprus issue, check this;

The Annan Plan was to create a new Cypriot confederation

We don't even need to go further than this to see that we would have been back to the 60s in no time.
Then you go onto to say "loose governmental administration" even more trouble, wow, I hadn't realised you were so backward on this issue, hold on theres more;

"No huge number of Turkish Forces, only a limited number of Turkish Settlers allowed to remain"

Why do we need Turkish troops, they don't belong here and infact are part of the problem. As for the illegal settlers, stay, come on you want us to legalise the illegalities to appease Turkey and you call these advantages. I can't stop laughing, you should be a stand up comedian with this trash you are spewing.

Then you claim the return of varoshia ........, yeah, in about 30 years time when Turkey gets a hard on and decide to give it back in inches.

You have no idea, yet you have the audacity to come here and preach to the victims of Turkeys aggression and be happy about it.

Now still pissing me about and tell us what advantages for the GCs leaving out the jokes.

[FragnaticDeath]

He must be confused. I will repeat my QUESTION

WHAT ARE THE PROS OF THE GCs?

or do you want me to enlarge the text letters so you can read it better.

[Viewpoint]

Lets take it one by one.

Over half the GC refugees would have returned home.

[Malapapa]

Yes they have and you know it, thats the difference between TCs and Armenian and Maronites, we are still fighting for our rights they capitulated to your demands ages ago and are not better off that the minorities in the UK eg Pakistanis and Indians...we are not like those minorities and will never be, when will you get that into your head?

Hypocrite. You won't give privileges to other Cypriot minorities that you demand for TCs.

If you feel so strongly about it you give it to them then, they are currently a minority in your GC state, so you can give them what they want.

I don't feel particularly strongly about minority rights; you do. But you only want it for one minority. Which makes you a bit of a hypocrite. By the way, the Maronite towns of Kormakitis, Asomatos, Karpashia and Ayia Marina are currently controlled by Turkey's army. Giving them rights there is decidedly difficult. Perhaps they should be given a BBF with you in the north, two states with equal rights. Let's see how committed you are to this premise.

Nothing hypocritical about it, we stood up for us ourselves not to become a minority thats why we are negotiating BBF with political equality they capitulated to being a minority.

You have such contempt for the other minorities of Cyprus. It really is distasteful. Inhuman even.

Its not that difficult to understand but you still pretend you do not know which way the wind blows....

It is very difficult to understand how you can insist one rule for one minority, another rule for another. Such double standards.

they lost their chance when they sided with you guys,

Perhaps they were scared of you because of your utter contempt for minorities, unless they happen to be like you.

not turning back for them but we are still fighting for our right not to be a minority in a GC state and we will never give up.

That's what you think. TC culture is dying in the north just as Maronite culture is dying. Turkey is killing them both. And don't deny it. This is TCs not taken in by Turkey's propaganda telling me this.

If they choose to live in the north state they will have the same minority rights that you give them in the south.

I very much doubt it.

[boomerang]

Come on Dean the cartoon man, tells us then, what was in it for the GCs???


we know what the turks were getting out of it, we wait your response.

here is a one syllabal word for you, twat!

The Annan Plan was to create a new Cypriot confederation of two component states — the Greek Cypriot State and the Turkish Cypriot State — joined together by a minimal federal government apparatus.

Advantage #1 (loose governmental administration)

This federal level, loosely based on the Swiss federal model, would have incorporated the following elements:

A collective Presidential Council, made up of six voting members, allocated according to population (per present levels, four Greek Cypriots and two Turkish Cypriots), and selected and voted in by parliament. An additional three non-voting members would be assigned 2:1.
A President and Vice President, chosen by the Presidential Council from among its members, one from each community, to alternate in their functions every 20 months during the council's five-year term of office.
A bicameral legislature:
A Senate (upper house), with 48 members, divided 24:24 between the two communities.
A Chamber of Deputies (lower house), with 48 members, divided in proportion to the two communities' populations (with no fewer than 12 for the smaller community).
A Supreme Court composed of equal numbers of Greek Cypriot and Turkish Cypriot judges, plus three foreign judges; to be appointed by the Presidential Council.
The plan included a federal constitution, constitutions for each constituent state, and a string of constitutional and federal laws. It also provided for a Reconciliation Commission to bring the two communities closer together and resolve outstanding disputes from the past.

(Advantage #2: A more trustworthy system of governence, checks and balances, and propety settlements)

It would also have established a limited right to return between the territories of the two communities, and it would have allowed both Greece and Turkey to maintain a permanent military presence on the island, albeit with large, phased reductions in troop numbers.

(Advantage #3: No huge number of Turkish Forces, only a limited number of Turkish Settlers allowed to remain)

Other advanatages would have been the end of the buffer zone, Famagusta returned to the Cyprus Greek State, and the enjoyment of all of Cyprus' citizens to the benefit of the EU.

here expat...start reading and if you can't put it together just holler...we always help the handicapped...


Reasons for the approval of the Annan Plan Turkish Cypriot view

* Reunification was desired for economic reasons.
* Many Turkish Cypriots no longer perceived the Greek Cypriots as a threat, especially in the light of the strictly bi-zonal proposition of the Annan plan.
* Turkish Cypriots would receive considerable constitutional power in the United Cyprus Republic that the Annan plan proposed, over-proportional to their percentage of the population.
* The Turkish Cypriot component state would still, even after territorial cessation of some areas to the Greek Cypriot component state, make up 28.5 percent of the total area of Cyprus, including large economically important areas that where inhabitated exclusively by Greek Cypriots prior to the division of Cyprus in 1975.
* The right of return of Greek Cypriots to their homes in the areas coming under the control of the Turkish Cypriot component state would be strictly limited if not, insome cases, forbidden, thus the possibility of Turkish Cypriots becoming a minority in their respective component state would not exist.
* The guarantor powers to the constitution of Cyprus would retain their powers as such, thus Turkey would still have the arguable right to intervene in Cypriot affairs, most definitely on behalf of the Turkish Cypriots.

Reasons for the rejection of the Annan Plan Greek Cypriot Point of view

* The Ethnic groups in Cyprus are Greek 77%, Turkish 18%, other 5% of the population. (2001) The Annan plan equates the representation of the two major ethnic groups in the to be Senate and in the Supreme Court giving 50-50 representation to the two communities. The majority becomes minority in important decision centers.
* The plan created a confederation even though it utilized the term "federation" because there was no hierarchy of laws, while central authority emanated from the so-called component states. Note that the United States abandoned its original confederal structure because it was unworkable. In 1783, a federal constitution was established containing a clear federal supremacy clause. The Supreme Court composed of equal numbers of Greek Cypriot (77% of population) and Turkish Cypriot (18% of population) judges, plus three foreign judges; thus foreign actors would cast deciding votes.
* The Plan did not include a settlement regarding the repatriation of Turkish settlers living on Greek Cypriot owned land in the 'Northern Cyprus', while after 19 years, the possibility of abolishing the derogation of 5% of Greeks and Turkish citizens who could settle in Cyprus, is obvious, and the danger of a permanent mass settling of Cyprus by Turkey is visible.
* Nearly all the Turkish settlers would be granted citizenship or residence rights leading to citizenship. The central government would have limited control towards future Turkish Immigration. Those settlers opting to return to Turkey would be compensated by Cyprus and Greek Cypriots. Even though Turkey systematically brought in the settlers to alter the demography of the island, it had no responsibility for their Repatriation.
* The Plan simply disregarded the plain language and clear meaning of the Geneva Convention of 1949, section III, article 49, which prohibits colonization by an occupying power. Article 49 states in its last paragraph: "The Occupying Power shall not deport or transfer parts of its own civilian population into the territory it occupies."
* The Plan did not deal in full with the demilitarisation of the illegal 'TRNC', and Greek Cypriots felt they had no reason to believe Turkish promises concerning the withdrawal of troops.
* Cyprus would be excluded from the European Common Defense and Foreign Policy, while Turkish troops would remain in Cyprus even after the accession of Turkey to the EU with intervention rights (a military invasion - occasionally used euphemistically) in the Greek Cypriot component state.
* Many Greek Cypriots interpreted the Right of Return policy as to be seriously flawed, meaning only 20% of Greek Cypriot refugees would be able to return over a time frame of 25 years, whereas Turkish Cypriots would have had full right of return.The plan denied to all Cypriots rights enjoyed by all other EU citizens (right of free movement and residence, the right to apply to work in any position (including national civil services, the right to vote).
* Turkish Cypriots would have gained all the basic demands it made, from the first day of the implementation of the solution. To be exact, 24 hours after the holding of the referendum. In contrast, everything that the Greek Cypriots were aspiring to achieve, would have postponed without guarantees and depend upon the good will of Turkey to fulfil the obligations it undertakes. They are also subject to the precondition that all would have gone well.
* The return of the Turkish occupied land will take place in the period between three and a half months and three and a half years from the moment the solution is signed with no guarantees whatsoever that this shall be implemented. The Cypriot-Greek proposal of placing these areas under the control of the UN Peace Keeping Force and not the Turkish army has been rejected.
* The Plan did not address the issue of the British Sovereign Base Areas (SBAs) on the island, although parts of the SBAs would be transferred to the governments of the two consituent states.
* The British were granted rights to unilaterally define the continental shelf and territorial waters along two base areas and to claim potential mineral rights. Under the 1959-1960 London Zurich agreements, Britain did not have such rights (see the 2nd annex to the Additional Protocol to the 1959 Treaty of Establishment).
* The plan absolved Turkey of all responsibility for its invasion of Cyprus and its murders, rapes, destruction of property and churches and looting and forcing approximately 200,000 Greek Cypriots from their homes and property. The Cyprus government filed applications to the European Commission on Human Rights on September 17, 1974 and on March 21, 1975. The Commission issued its report on the charges made in the two applications on July 10, 1976. In it the Commission found Turkey guilty of violating the following articles of the European Convention on Human Rights:

1.. Article 2 - by the killing of innocent civilians committed on a substantial scale;

2.. Article 3 - by the rape of women of all ages from 12 to 71;

3.. Article 3 - by inhuman treatment of prisoners and persons detained;

4.. Article 5 - by deprivation of liberty with regard to detainees and missing persons - a continuing violation;

5.. Article 8 - by displacement of persons creating more than 180,000 Greek Cypriot refugees,and be refusing to allow the refugees to return to their homes.

* The plan failed to provide payment by Turkey:

1.. for the lives of innocent civilians killed by the Turkish army;

2.. for the victims of rape by the Turkish army;

3.. for the vast destruction of property and churches by the Turkish army; and

4.. for the substantial looting by the Turkish army.

* The Plan subverted the property rights of the Greek Cypriots and other legal owners of property in the occupied area:

•by prohibiting recourse to European courts on property issues;

•by withdrawing all pending cases at the European Court of Human Rights and transferring them to local courts;

•by allowing Turkish Cypriots and illegal mainland Turk settlers/colonists to keep Greek Cypriot homes and property they were illegally given following Turkey's invasion of Cyprus and not having to reimburse the rightful owners of the property for 30 years of illegal use;

•by a highly complicated, ambiguous and uncertain regime for resolving property issues and which is based on the principle that real property owners can ultimately be forced to give up their property rights which would violate the European Convention on Human Rights and international law. The Greek Cypriot property owners would have to be reimbursed by the to be federal treasury which would be funded overwhelmingly by the Greek Cypriots, meaning that Greek Cypriots would be reimbursing themselves.

* The Plan would have the effect of protecting those British citizens who illegally bought Greek Cypriot property from settlers or persons who are not owners; in the occupied north of Cyprus. They would, in effect, not be held responsible for their illegal action.
* The cost of economic reunification would be borne by the Greek Cypriots. The reunification cost has been estimated close to $20b
* Following Annan 5 plan the Greek Cypriots would not have been allowed to make up more than 6% of the population in any single village in the Turkish controlled areas in the north thus they would have been prevented from setting up their own schools for their children and would not have even been able to give birth once this quota was reached.

According to UN 260 resolution Genocide is: (d) Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;

* The agreement places time restrictions in the right of free, permanent installation of Greek Cypriots back to their homes and properties in the to be Turkish Cypriot state, which constitutes a deviation from the European Union practices. Those Greek Cypriot refugees that would return to their homes in regions under Turkish Cypriot administration would have no local civil rights, because the political representatives of Turkish Cypriot state would be elected only from Turkish Cypriots.
* The functional weaknesses of the Plan endanger, inter alia, the smooth activity and participation of Cyprus, with one voice, in the European Union. While the Greek Cypriots have with many sacrifices achieved Cyprus accession to the European Union, the Greek Cypriots could very easily be led to the neutralization of the accession until the adoption of all necessary federal and regional legal measures or the loss of the benefits of the accession or the facing of obstacles in Cyprus participation in the Economic and Monetary Union and other European institutions.
* The Economy of Cyprus would have been separate with the plan. There will be no common Monetary policy, fiscal policy and no investments by Greek Cypriot businesses shall be allowed in the Turkish Cypriot constituent state

[boomerang]

I will make it easier for you expat...look at the peamble of each constituent state compare it and then come and tell me what you see...

[FragnaticDeath]

I highly doubt they understand anything about the annan plan.

thx for posting it boomerang, cause i was about to post the same thing.

Do you TCs need some BOLDING so you can read it off even easier?

[Viewpoint]

Malapapa

You have such contempt for the other minorities of Cyprus. It really is distasteful. Inhuman even

Ask the Brits how they are treated in the TRNC.

It is very difficult to understand how you can insist one rule for one minority, another rule for another. Such double standards.

Exactly where you go wrong we are not a minority we are a partner just like the 1960 agreements and how any new agreement is being discussed under a BBF with political equality, minorities do not have these rights.

Perhaps they were scared of you because of your utter contempt for minorities, unless they happen to be like you.

Thats you opinion and we would need to get their viewpoint on why they capitulated and decided to side with GCs.

That's what you think. TC culture is dying in the north just as Maronite culture is dying. Turkey is killing them both. And don't deny it. This is TCs not taken in by Turkey's propaganda telling me this.

You conveniently forget we are Turkish in origin so no one is killing anything, thats what you make up in your minds hoping that we will rebell against Turkey, aint gonna happen. Those that "tell" you these things are disgruntled with the government so they would say anything Im sure you have these people in the south as well. Its what the majority think and the majority of TCs prefer Turks to GCs time you realize this fact. Without a solution that will incorporate plenty of safeguards and guarantees like the AP TCs would not enter into any unification deal.

I very much doubt it

Again ask the Brits who reside as citizens in the TRNC.

[Viewpoint]

I highly doubt they understand anything about the annan plan.

thx for posting it boomerang, cause i was about to post the same thing.

Do you TCs need some BOLDING so you can read it off even easier?

Where are the PROs for GCs? you cant even answer your own questions.