Cyprus-Forum.com

[Viewpoint]

MicAtCyp read what i have written carefully, I took part in a section of the Annan plan not all of it and I am well aware of how negotiations were conducted for the remaining areas, so please dont under estimate my intelligence 99% of what was discussed and agreed with GC counterparts was included in the section we dealt with, now do you understand??? so its not crap or fantasy as you so kindly put it.

[Kifeas]

MicAtCyp read what i have written carefully, I took part in a section of the Annan plan not all of it and I am well aware of how negotiations were conducted for the remaining areas, so please dont under estimate my intelligence 99% of what was discussed and agreed with GC counterparts was included in the section we dealt with, now do you understand??? so its not crap or fantasy as you so kindly put it.

Viewpoint!
Which section of the A-plan you were personally involved in? If you are talking about the preparation of the entire legislation of the new federal state and the constituent states, Yes I agree that it was taken directly from the existing legislation of the Republic of Cyprus and transferred with some small modification into the legislation sections of the A-plan. This however is not the A-plan itself. Here we are talking about the foundation agreement and not the supporting legislation of the federal government and the two constituent states.

[Viewpoint]

Kifeas what Im trying to point out is that Annanplan didnt fall from the sky it was negotiated by both sides. Now the GC cry wolf as if they had nothing ot do with with the whole process, get real please. ıt didnt turn out to your maximilist demands handing Cyrpsu to you on a plate thats what you are finding difficult to stomach.

[Alexandros Lordos]

I am very disappointed at your response, does he have to mention names when hes spouting so much nationaliats crap and playing the emotional strings of the GCs it is clear to all and sundry that he is referring to Turks and TCs, he actually states "an occupation army and swarms of settlers". These types of speaches just drum up the past to ensure the future is not unification and has as I have stated before reinforces my belief that recongnized partition for TCs is the only realistic opiton.

Viewpoint, you may rant about Tassos for ever, and I may rant about Talat for ever, but respecting each other also means respecting each other's elected representatives. For better or worse, Tassos does represent us (except for some personality attributes which are just his), just as much as Talat represents you. Tassos' concerns are our concerns, just as much as Talat's concerns are your concerns. Demonising each other's leader is in no way helpful.

[Viewpoint]

Alex you of all people can see what Papadop is doing he playing the emotions strings of GCs to gain time towards Oct 3rd where he feels he will break off concessions from Turkey as they try to progress towards the EU. Plus I dont have to respect him that is earnt and he has earnt nothing to date, the majority of TCs view him as an obstacle in front of negotiations and any solution.

[Alexandros Lordos]

Alex you of all people can see what Papadop is doing he playing the emotions strings of GCs to gain time towards Oct 3rd where he feels he will break off concessions from Turkey as they try to progress towards the EU.

Yes, but it is not just Tassos. Most Greek Cypriots, including myself, hope that Turkey's course to EU accession will make her more willing to make concessions in Cyprus, especially in the issue of Security. So if you have a problem with this strategy, it is not just Tassos who is your problem, we all are.

This doesn't mean we are hoping that Turkey will concede a minority status for TCs. But we are hoping that Turkey will concede that she doesn't need to have Cyprus under her strategic control, since all our countries will be members of the EU.

So far, Turkey, and the TC leadership, and perhaps the TC public, are all totally unyielding in this respect. "We want the Treaty of Guarantee and nothing else". We GCs are hoping that EU accession for Turkey will help you all change this attitude.

I hope what I said above does not insult you. I am trying to be as sincere as I can.

[DO NOT FORGET 1974!]

This doesn't mean we are hoping that Turkey will concede a minority status for TCs. But we are hoping that Turkey will concede that she doesn't need to have Cyprus under her strategic control, since all our countries will be members of the EU.

So far, Turkey, and the TC leadership, and perhaps the TC public, are all totally unyielding in this respect. "We want the Treaty of Guarantee and nothing else". We GCs are hoping that EU accession for Turkey will help you all change this attitude.

The Turk will never concede anything! The Turk never gave out anything he stole with the use of Arms, on the negotiating table. This is not part of the Turk's history. The Turk doesn't understand this language. He only understands one language! You must learn how to speak this language! This is what history is telling us!

[Alexandros Lordos]

This doesn't mean we are hoping that Turkey will concede a minority status for TCs. But we are hoping that Turkey will concede that she doesn't need to have Cyprus under her strategic control, since all our countries will be members of the EU.

So far, Turkey, and the TC leadership, and perhaps the TC public, are all totally unyielding in this respect. "We want the Treaty of Guarantee and nothing else". We GCs are hoping that EU accession for Turkey will help you all change this attitude.

The Turk will never concede anything! The Turk never gave out anything he stole with the use of Arms, on the negotiating table. This is not part of the Turk's history. The Turk doesn't understand this language. He only understands one language! You must learn how to speak this language! This is what history is telling us!

That's exactly the point, by trying to become a member of the European Union, Turkey is being forced to learn lessons about human rights and civilization - lessons that were never before a part of Turkish history. For instance, did you know that all over Turkey there are training programs to teach policemen and judges to be less brutal and more respectful of human rights in their approach? This would never have happened if Turkey was not trying to join the EU.

[Viewpoint]

Alex

Most Greek Cypriots, including myself, hope that Turkey's course to EU accession will make her more willing to make concessions in Cyprus, especially in the issue of Security

But we are hoping that Turkey will concede that she doesn't need to have Cyprus under her strategic control, since all our countries will be members of the EU.

So far, Turkey, and the TC leadership, and perhaps the TC public, are all totally unyielding in this respect. "We want the Treaty of Guarantee and nothing else". We GCs are hoping that EU accession for Turkey will help you all change this attitude.

This has been so obvious and and disappointing another GC move to undermine our security, no they havent changed a bit, still up to their old tricks. Should we as TCs feel safe and confident with your stratedgy?? of forcing Turkey via EU to stop being a guarantor party a protector of TCs, the only country that has stood up for us and supported us. Well Im afraid you do not know TCs or Turks, they will not yield to this and the result could be even worse that the current situation. Thisis noway to go about building trust between our communities, the moment this news breaks the deeper the divide will get.

[Alexandros Lordos]

another GC move to undermine our security.

That's where the misunderstanding is, Viewpoint, we don't want to undermine your security, but you need to concern yourself about our security also. It can't be one way. The guarantor system does not make us secure. We don't want you to be insecure for the sake of our security, but neither should we be insecure for the sake of your security. We need to find a solution that will make all of us feel secure.

By the way, what do you think of the proposal for a Cypriot-European security system, as it was described today in Kibris? Would you feel secure with such a system, if Turkey had "secondary guarantor rights" until she joined the EU?