Cyprus-Forum.com

[Get Real!]

But uprooting and move TCs from 37% to 18%...

Can you believe this loser? It was alright for 185,000 GCs to be uprooted from their homes but it’s not alright for him to be moved from what he doesn’t own!

[Viewpoint]

Piratis

If it is possible for GCs then it should be possible for TCs as well.

That was a totally diferent situation, do you think we should frighten people into moving? maybe a few internal riots or killings would do the trick, please people lets be serious.

Furthermore, those TCs who have their roots in specific places (i.e. they are not living in GC properties) they don't have to move anywhere. As we agreed not all TCs need to live in one state.

Thats what I support but Kikapu think you get all the TCs into 18% in order to keep the 5 upper house seats in his flawed plan.

Nothing. I don't believe that derogations from the human rights of anybody could be called a "solution". I don't accept derogations from my human rights and I don't ask for derogations from yours.

Does that mean that we cant ask for any? because you choose not to, just like you choose not to fear us does that mean we have to follow suit, jusy dont work that way im afraid you need to grasp the facts that we do not trust GCs one iota.


Get Real

Can you believe this loser? It was alright for 185,000 GCs to be uprooted from their homes but it’s not alright for him to be moved from what he doesn’t own!

You ran away we are not running away its a totally different scenerio, try to understand the difference you moron.

[Get Real!]

Get Real

Can you believe this loser? It was alright for 185,000 GCs to be uprooted from their homes but it’s not alright for him to be moved from what he doesn’t own!

You ran away we are not running away its a totally different scenerio, try to understand the difference you moron.

Trust me when I tell you that when I unleash my buckshot up your arse you’ll run faster than Ben Johnson!

If you need encouragement I’ll happily give it to you!

[Piratis]

Piratis

If it is possible for GCs then it should be possible for TCs as well.

That was a totally diferent situation, do you think we should frighten people into moving? maybe a few internal riots or killings would do the trick, please people lets be serious.

VP, you seem to believe that we should just accept the results of the Turkish Invasion and the ethnic cleansing. This, for us, is not a solution to the Cyprus problem.

As I said, the TCs who have their roots in specific places (i.e. they lived there before 74) they can stay where they are. No need for them to move anywhere. But those who live in GC properties should give the properties back to the GC owners. There can not be a solution to the Cyprus problem without this.

And there is no need to frighten them. They should just understand that if they want the consequences of their illegalities to end, the only way to do so is to end those illegalities. Legalizing the illegalities is not an option.

Furthermore this will be something that will be done gradually and safely over a period of several years.

Furthermore, those TCs who have their roots in specific places (i.e. they are not living in GC properties) they don't have to move anywhere. As we agreed not all TCs need to live in one state.

Thats what I support but Kikapu think you get all the TCs into 18% in order to keep the 5 upper house seats in his flawed plan.

Since people will be free to settle anywhere they want then if TCs want to have all seats in a state then they will have to be the vast majority of that state. For this to happen such state has to be sufficiently small and most TCs should move in it. But this doesn't mean you have to do it that way. You just need to accept that there will be no "Turkish" state, but two Cypriot states. With what Kikapu is proposing you have the option of choosing what you want. Option 1 is to move to that 18%, and therefore becoming the vast majority of that state, in effect making it a "Turkish" state, or Option 2, live wherever you want in Cyprus, knowing that in this way both states can have a GC majority. It is up to you.

If you want TCs to have a specific number of seats, then the arrangement has to be done between TCs and GCs as communities, not between the states, because there is no way to guarantee the population composition of the states without derogations from human rights.

Nothing. I don't believe that derogations from the human rights of anybody could be called a "solution". I don't accept derogations from my human rights and I don't ask for derogations from yours.

Does that mean that we cant ask for any? because you choose not to, just like you choose not to fear us does that mean we have to follow suit, jusy dont work that way im afraid you need to grasp the facts that we do not trust GCs one iota.

The mistrust and fear goes both ways. Solving the Cyprus problem means first and above all respecting the human rights of all Cypriots. No solution can be a real solution if the human rights of people are violated. Therefore the fears and mistrust should be dealt with in different ways. I gave you examples of such ways in several other posts.

[paliometoxo]

why is it turkey is trying to disarm the south of cyprus and trying to stop un coming to cyprus stopping them to re nw their mandate then refuse to remove any troops from the north?

[Expatkiwi]

Get Real

Can you believe this loser? It was alright for 185,000 GCs to be uprooted from their homes but it’s not alright for him to be moved from what he doesn’t own!

You ran away we are not running away its a totally different scenerio, try to understand the difference you moron.

Trust me when I tell you that when I unleash my buckshot up your arse you’ll run faster than Ben Johnson!

If you need encouragement I’ll happily give it to you!

Ben Johnson got busted for drug use... remember?

[Viewpoint]

Piratis

VP, you seem to believe that we should just accept the results of the Turkish Invasion and the ethnic cleansing. This, for us, is not a solution to the Cyprus problem.

Piratis people will be able to live where they wish, this is a big step for everyone and we cannot go back to how it was pre 1974 the face of Cyprus has chnaged forever, this is something we all have to live with time you woke up to that fact.

As I said, the TCs who have their roots in specific places (i.e. they lived there before 74) they can stay where they are. No need for them to move anywhere. But those who live in GC properties should give the properties back to the GC owners. There can not be a solution to the Cyprus problem without this.

TCs who live in for example Lefke will not go anywhere, so thats where Kikpus plan fall flat on its face becuase you cannot force these TCs to move into a specified area. The property issue can partly be solved by giving property rigths back to refugees but there will be cases where this will be impossible and the owner will have to except compensation or alternative avaialable property, this is the only was the property issue can be resolved.

And there is no need to frighten them. They should just understand that if they want the consequences of their illegalities to end, the only way to do so is to end those illegalities. Legalizing the illegalities is not an option.

You will be suprised how many situations will have to be solved through compromise and flexibility everything is not black or white and the effects of the last 46 years have to taken into account but lets not go there as it will clogg up matters.

Furthermore this will be something that will be done gradually and safely over a period of several years.

I agree.

Since people will be free to settle anywhere they want then if TCs want to have all seats in a state then they will have to be the vast majority of that state. For this to happen such state has to be sufficiently small and most TCs should move in it. But this doesn't mean you have to do it that way. You just need to accept that there will be no "Turkish" state, but two Cypriot states. With what Kikapu is proposing you have the option of choosing what you want. Option 1 is to move to that 18%, and therefore becoming the vast majority of that state, in effect making it a "Turkish" state, or Option 2, live wherever you want in Cyprus, knowing that in this way both states can have a GC majority. It is up to you.

I dont agree with you here, the same risk exists whether the north state (im not to hung up on labels) is 29% or 18% the GCs have the numerical advanatge to take calculated action to swamp that area if need be to take total control of pwer all over the island, thats why I rejected Kikapus plan which he to agrees is a possiblity but asks us to take a leap of faith knowing full well that over time the GCs could quite easily take the 1 seat they require. My proposition is a pan vote accross the whole island where the candidates with most votes are elected balanced with proportional representation eg 29 TC MPs and 71 GCs MPs first past the post, the key to addressing our concerns would be to abolish the upper house and have a minimum votes needed to pass bills eg 50% of TC & GC MPs would have to agree this would avoid the problem of GC trying to grab the 1 seat necessary to push the TCs to one side and make them ineffective. What do you think about this type of a structure so as to avoid any chance of trying to grab power by default, it would also encourage MPs to work together and obtain the votes both TC and GC to get bills through parliament.

If you want TCs to have a specific number of seats, then the arrangement has to be done between TCs and GCs as communities, not between the states, because there is no way to guarantee the population composition of the states without derogations from human rights.

The foundation of TCs wanting a solution is that it wil be under a BBF with political equality if you revert back to community from state then they will turn their backs on anything that suggest they will not be allowed to administer their desginated area, being forced into a unitary state where the majority will be the GCs will not work at this stage we are not Cypriot enough nor are we mentally ready for such a hugh step. Over time and mutual cooperation and benefit without problems and fears this may be the ultimate goal but not on day one, the wounds still need time to heal and the non existemce of trust and to be rebuilt.

The mistrust and fear goes both ways. Solving the Cyprus problem means first and above all respecting the human rights of all Cypriots. No solution can be a real solution if the human rights of people are violated. Therefore the fears and mistrust should be dealt with in different ways. I gave you examples of such ways in several other posts.

I acknowledge your fears and mistrust and will try to address them but you have to do the same and at first things may sound really unacceptable but over time once the fears and concerns of people have been proven unfounded we can move forward but there has to be safeguards and guarantees, hopefully they will soon become redundent when we work together towards a united Cyprus, but in the back of everyones minds there is a need for safety nets just in case things go wrong and both sides try the same antics we saw in the past and even see today, the animosity and lack of cooperation between the north and south even in 2009 is not a good sign for the future but we can only hope these will all disappear when a solution is found.