Cyprus-Forum.com

[Oracle]

I didn't agree with his politics either, Viewpoint. But descrecating a grave is a real no-no in my book.

According to BirKibrisli, who strikes me as a most insightful TC observer, Viewpoint represents the "average TC" mindset. This fact alone I think goes some way to explaining why Cypriots have been unable to see eye to eye.

When your average GC is Oracle you can clearly see why we are the way we are.

Yes, you are clearly as stupid as the bird-brain whose name you share

[Expatkiwi]

Yes, you are clearly as stupid as the bird-brain whose name you share

Oracle, as long as you use such terms, you're only going to antagonize and goad similar responses. I've been guilty of it, so I know of which I speak.

[Malapapa]

I didn't agree with his politics either, Viewpoint. But descrecating a grave is a real no-no in my book.

According to BirKibrisli, who strikes me as a most insightful TC observer, Viewpoint represents the "average TC" mindset. This fact alone I think goes some way to explaining why Cypriots have been unable to see eye to eye.

Nothing to do with the GC mentality old chap, what?
Silly me to even consider such a thought, l'll just go and give me 50 lashes on my home made falaka for even considering it, as punishment. ouch.
Enjoy the night chaps.

Can you give me an example of the "average GC" mentality? As BirKibrisli has? (And please don't be lazy and say Oracle). And then give me some examples of how this mentality manifests itself in unacceptable ways, (eg. like the endorsement of grave desecration).

I'm fed up of the way you deflect your deficiencies onto the other side. I want specifics, not the usual platitudes that Viewpoint spouts.

[YFred]

I didn't agree with his politics either, Viewpoint. But descrecating a grave is a real no-no in my book.

According to BirKibrisli, who strikes me as a most insightful TC observer, Viewpoint represents the "average TC" mindset. This fact alone I think goes some way to explaining why Cypriots have been unable to see eye to eye.

Nothing to do with the GC mentality old chap, what?
Silly me to even consider such a thought, l'll just go and give me 50 lashes on my home made falaka for even considering it, as punishment. ouch.
Enjoy the night chaps.

Can you give me an example of the "average GC" mentality? As BirKibrisli has? (And please don't be lazy and say Oracle). And then give me some examples of how this mentality manifests itself in unacceptable ways, (eg. like the endorsement of grave desecration).

I'm fed up of the way you deflect your deficiencies onto the other side. I want specifics, not the usual platitudes that Viewpoint spouts.

Me Lazy? have you seen how many post I've done in less than a year.
The description I am referring to is "We are all going back to our houses", which is prevalent in 75% of the population, well at least it was in 2004. You may well find that it may be reversed in the next vote.
Regarding the grave desecration, I am totally against them, however as this man I equate to Hitler but to a lesser degree and as I had no time for him when he was alive, I simply cannot be a hypocrite and pretend to care what happened to his grave. I do not. I do not care for anybody who went around in the sixties ordering killing of innocent civilians or the ones who actually did the deed.
I am very sorry if I upset some decent GCs with my attitude, but as I said many times before, I care for the living, the ones who are being suffocated with love rather than murderers graves.
Does that explain my stand point. It's not a matter of condoning it, I just don't give a shit about what happens to this man or his family, particularly his son who is of his mold.

[Expatkiwi]

I am very sorry if I upset some decent GCs with my attitude, but as I said many times before, I care for the living, the ones who are being suffocated with love rather than murderers graves.
Does that explain my stand point. It's not a matter of condoning it, I just don't give a shit about what happens to this man or his family, particularly his son who is of his mold.

People in RoCy are probably going to say what you just said here when Rauf Denktas passes on...

[BirKibrisli]

The exchange between Piratis and Viewpoint illustrates once again why we are never going to find an agreed solution...Stripped down Piratis is saying "You were the aggressors in 1571 and ever since...GCs has suffered more and for longer than the TCs,so dont look for any sympathy or understanding from us.It is majority rule or nothing!"And VP is saying "You will always blame us for the original sin,will never appreciate our pain and sufering,so we cannot ever trust you...It is partition of nothing..." Never the twine shall meet!!! or whatever the saying is...

Now do you understand Bir why we cannot agree a solution the chasm is just to wide and the midset is still the same, why force a marriage when the only real structure that has brought a peaceful exsistence to this island has been the intervention of 1974....the GCs continue to prove some people were correct.

It is arguable that the 1974 invasion/intervention has brought "peaceful existence" on the island...True not many people have been killed,but there are more ways to die than at the end of a bullet...As far as I am concerned the aftermath of 1974 has been nothing but a slow suffocating death for the TC community as a whole,squeezed between the RoC and Turkey...sometimes I think a quick and painless death is preferrable to this,and I give it to you that it was definitely on the cards. No one knows what would have happened to the TCs had Turkey not come in,but given the hatred-charged atmosphere of the times,anything was possible...I said many times,and will keep on saying this :Unless the GCs come to terms and accept their part of the pain and suffering inflicted on the TCs between 1963-74,there is little chance the average TC would ever trust the GCs...And as someone who lived in Cyprus between 1951 and 69,I would be the last one to blame them...Personally I have moved on and truly believe we are in no danger now from our GC compatriots. But I respect the opinion of people like yourself who require more then nice words about the blessings of democray and human rights to give up what you consider considerable advantages brought about by the trnc.

[BirKibrisli]

The exchange between Piratis and Viewpoint illustrates once again why we are never going to find an agreed solution...Stripped down Piratis is saying "You were the aggressors in 1571 and ever since...GCs has suffered more and for longer than the TCs,so dont look for any sympathy or understanding from us.It is majority rule or nothing!"And VP is saying "You will always blame us for the original sin,will never appreciate our pain and sufering,so we cannot ever trust you...It is partition of nothing..." Never the twine shall meet!!! or whatever the saying is...

And stripped down what you are saying is: "Bent over and let the Turks violate your human and democratic rights yet again" you call this "sympathy and understanding" and you think that it is the "solution" of the Cyprus Problem.

Also you got wrong what I am saying. For me what happened in the past is important only for factual reasons and I talk about the past only when somebody tries to falsify our history in order to excuse yet more crimes against us. On the contrary, I do not support that even a single of TCs human rights should be violated, regardless of what they did to us in the past and they continue doing against us as we speak. Unfortunately you miss this point.

What happened in the past is important,Piratis,but not only for factual reasons...It is also important for our undestanding now of why the TCs cannot bring themselves to trust the GCs...I know that you and plenty of others here,are finding it extremely difficult to even acknowledge that the TCs had a terrible time during the 63-74 period,and not so good time before that during the 50s...Your attitude seems to be: nobody asked you to come to Cyprus in 1571,so you deserve all you've got...Blaming the TCs today for the Ottoman capture of Cyprus over 500 years ago is absurd to say the least...That is what empires did those days..They invaded and captured all they could...Nobody asked my ancestors back in those days if they wanted to move to Cyprus. They came either as soldiers,or as forcefully expatriated settlers...Over the centuries they mixed and matched with the original inhabitants and evolved into the Cypriots they are today...So please stop harping on about 1571,and try to focus on the events/facts of 1945-74...See if you can manage to come up with one thing that the GCs could ahve done differently to avoid the catastrophy which engulfed our beautiful motherland... The key to the TC mindset represented by Viewpoint is there...By refusing to see it you are not helping find a solution most people might be happy to live with...

[boomerang]

The exchange between Piratis and Viewpoint illustrates once again why we are never going to find an agreed solution...Stripped down Piratis is saying "You were the aggressors in 1571 and ever since...GCs has suffered more and for longer than the TCs,so dont look for any sympathy or understanding from us.It is majority rule or nothing!"And VP is saying "You will always blame us for the original sin,will never appreciate our pain and sufering,so we cannot ever trust you...It is partition of nothing..." Never the twine shall meet!!! or whatever the saying is...

And stripped down what you are saying is: "Bent over and let the Turks violate your human and democratic rights yet again" you call this "sympathy and understanding" and you think that it is the "solution" of the Cyprus Problem.

Also you got wrong what I am saying. For me what happened in the past is important only for factual reasons and I talk about the past only when somebody tries to falsify our history in order to excuse yet more crimes against us. On the contrary, I do not support that even a single of TCs human rights should be violated, regardless of what they did to us in the past and they continue doing against us as we speak. Unfortunately you miss this point.

What happened in the past is important,Piratis,but not only for factual reasons...It is also important for our undestanding now of why the TCs cannot bring themselves to trust the GCs...I know that you and plenty of others here,are finding it extremely difficult to even acknowledge that the TCs had a terrible time during the 63-74 period,and not so good time before that during the 50s...Your attitude seems to be: nobody asked you to come to Cyprus in 1571,so you deserve all you've got...Blaming the TCs today for the Ottoman capture of Cyprus over 500 years ago is absurd to say the least...That is what empires did those days..They invaded and captured all they could...Nobody asked my ancestors back in those days if they wanted to move to Cyprus. They came either as soldiers,or as forcefully expatriated settlers...Over the centuries they mixed and matched with the original inhabitants and evolved into the Cypriots they are today...So please stop harping on about 1571,and try to focus on the events/facts of 1945-74...See if you can manage to come up with one thing that the GCs could ahve done differently to avoid the catastrophy which engulfed our beautiful motherland... The key to the TC mindset represented by Viewpoint is there...By refusing to see it you are not helping find a solution most people might be happy to live with...

so in short bir the aborigines should really have their own country coz the white man has done a lot of helluva more to them than the inter communal troubles between us...

and worth a mention bir, no government in Oz accepted or even apologised to the aboriginals till the Rudd government has done recently...

my solution is to fix it properly once anf for all and become cypriots with embracing democracy and respect for human rights...let the rule of law deal with it...but by asking for more rights for tcs, a minority is not the way...

our situation is not unique around the globe...actually miniscule with whats happened around the globe...

[BirKibrisli]

The exchange between Piratis and Viewpoint illustrates once again why we are never going to find an agreed solution...Stripped down Piratis is saying "You were the aggressors in 1571 and ever since...GCs has suffered more and for longer than the TCs,so dont look for any sympathy or understanding from us.It is majority rule or nothing!"And VP is saying "You will always blame us for the original sin,will never appreciate our pain and sufering,so we cannot ever trust you...It is partition of nothing..." Never the twine shall meet!!! or whatever the saying is...

And stripped down what you are saying is: "Bent over and let the Turks violate your human and democratic rights yet again" you call this "sympathy and understanding" and you think that it is the "solution" of the Cyprus Problem.

Also you got wrong what I am saying. For me what happened in the past is important only for factual reasons and I talk about the past only when somebody tries to falsify our history in order to excuse yet more crimes against us. On the contrary, I do not support that even a single of TCs human rights should be violated, regardless of what they did to us in the past and they continue doing against us as we speak. Unfortunately you miss this point.

What happened in the past is important,Piratis,but not only for factual reasons...It is also important for our undestanding now of why the TCs cannot bring themselves to trust the GCs...I know that you and plenty of others here,are finding it extremely difficult to even acknowledge that the TCs had a terrible time during the 63-74 period,and not so good time before that during the 50s...Your attitude seems to be: nobody asked you to come to Cyprus in 1571,so you deserve all you've got...Blaming the TCs today for the Ottoman capture of Cyprus over 500 years ago is absurd to say the least...That is what empires did those days..They invaded and captured all they could...Nobody asked my ancestors back in those days if they wanted to move to Cyprus. They came either as soldiers,or as forcefully expatriated settlers...Over the centuries they mixed and matched with the original inhabitants and evolved into the Cypriots they are today...So please stop harping on about 1571,and try to focus on the events/facts of 1945-74...See if you can manage to come up with one thing that the GCs could ahve done differently to avoid the catastrophy which engulfed our beautiful motherland... The key to the TC mindset represented by Viewpoint is there...By refusing to see it you are not helping find a solution most people might be happy to live with...

so in short bir the aborigines should really have their own country coz the white man has done a lot of helluva more to them than the inter communal troubles between us...

and worth a mention bir, no government in Oz accepted or even apologised to the aboriginals till the Rudd government has done recently...

my solution is to fix it properly once anf for all and become cypriots with embracing democracy and respect for human rights...let the rule of law deal with it...but by asking for more rights for tcs, a minority is not the way...

our situation is not unique around the globe...actually miniscule with whats happened around the globe...

I dont believe we should judge historical events by todays much more enlightened standards,boomers...But the 1571 keeps popping up with certain individuals so I felt obliged to comment. I accept the suggestion that the 1960 agreements were destined to fail because they were imposed on one side...Equally I believe that if you impose another solution,democratic or otherwise,on the TCs or GCs today,it will fail again...The TCs feel they have too much to lose,and they do nt trust the protection which might be provided by a simple democratic state...What is the point of insisting that they accept the GC demands???....There are abuse of human rights in so called democracies like Russia,Serbia,Turkey,Greece,Romania,Bulgaria...you name it....Democracy is as good as the people who are running it...At this point the TCs are not prepared to put their faith in a system which has often failed people all over the world...why can't we have a compromise solution in the interim????

[Viewpoint]

They were flags displayed in the run up to the AP referendum asking for a solution, so you think TCs were rigth in supporting the AP or wanting to join the EU via the AP?

No. Of course they were right. They were desperate to escape Turkey's clutches, by hook or by crook.

Via the AP which you rejected, so what are you saying they were right to support the AP?

What else can you say about TCs and their struggle, show us how unbiased you really are.