Cyprus-Forum.com

[halil]

TALAT SAYS SETTLEMENT HIGHLY UNLIKELY BY APRIL NEXT YEAR

TRNC President Mehmet Ali Talat has said that reaching a solution to the Cyprus Problem by April next year is highly unlikely.

Reminding that an agreement has been reached to intensify the frequency of meetings in an attempt to speed up the process as well as to gain momentum, the President pointed out that any settlement needed dedication and careful attention.

He said that great responsibility fell on politicians and teachers to explain the benefits of a solution that will be born from such dedicated efforts.
Speaking at a meeting of representatives of the Cyprus Turkish Secondary School Teachers’ Union, President Mehmet Ali Talat said that he had started informing the public on the negotiations with the launch of the 2nd round of negotiations.

Pointing out that both sides were determined towards reaching a political settlement in Cyprus, Talat however added that the Greek Cypriot Side had different expectations regarding Turkey’s EU accession process.
“The Greek Cypriot Side wants to gain more concessions by exerting pressure on Turkey” he said.

He said that despite all efforts, it seemed highly unlikely that a settlement could be reached by April next year due to the upcoming Presidential elections in the TRNC.
“Let’s say we reached a deal by April but we will have to give a break to the talks in February because of the elections, Our preference was to solve the Cyprus Problem before the elections but to tell you the truth, chances this will happen are diminishing every passing day, the president added.
The President also complained that there was no unity on the Turkish Side regarding the idea of voting over a single list, something which the people had approved in the Annan Plan.

He explained that there was widespread public misconception in the TRNC that any authority or power allocated to the federal state-to-be was allocating it to the Greek Cypriot side.
The President also reminded that there were serious differences with the Greek Cypriot Side over the issue of property.

Explaining that the Greek Cypriot Side was insisting on the former owner of the property having the first say, the President said that the Turkish Side would be the side feeling the negative effects of such a formula.

Asked to comment on the theft of the former Greek Cypriot leader Papadopoulos’s remains, Talat said that this was an act of provocation by those who were disturbed by the negotiations process.

[paliometoxo]

of course they are very unlikely turkey and the trnc keeps insisting on two states and unthinkable demands.. they wond budge,,.. only if they change their stance will a solution be possible the problems is with turkey and the trnc trying to steal our land the turkish making stupid excuses to have an army on cyprus soil.. hopefully turkey will realise that two state sis not going to happen in time.. any more then enosis with greece is going to happen..

[Malapapa]

The President (sic) also reminded that there were serious differences with the Greek Cypriot Side over the issue of property.

He means serious difference between what he wants and the legal position on the issue of property.

Explaining that the Greek Cypriot Side was insisting on the former owner of the property having the first say, the President said that the Turkish Side would be the side feeling the negative effects of such a formula.

I don't recall any of these owners voluntarily giving up their property, so why are they former owners?

What formula has Talat proposed to prevent these continuing owners (in the eyes of the law) from claiming their properties back through the courts if they wish, regardless of what's agreed? He needs to think these things through.

[YFred]

The President (sic) also reminded that there were serious differences with the Greek Cypriot Side over the issue of property.

He means serious difference between what he wants and the legal position on the issue of property.

Explaining that the Greek Cypriot Side was insisting on the former owner of the property having the first say, the President said that the Turkish Side would be the side feeling the negative effects of such a formula.

I don't recall any of these owners voluntarily giving up their property, so why are they former owners?

What formula has Talat proposed to prevent these continuing owners (in the eyes of the law) from claiming their properties back through the courts if they wish, regardless of what's agreed? He needs to think these things through.

Reading the posts on this forum is like visiting the dentist. Bloody painful. You can go to courts all you like before and after the peace agreement. Good luck.

[Malapapa]

You can go to courts all you like before and after the peace agreement. Good luck.

Thanks for your permission but I personally have no need to go to court.

So a peace agreement that doesn't accord with the law in respect to property rights, is therefore worthless. Agreed?

[Expatkiwi]

Give the 'red lines' that either side say that they won't go beyond, It's not surprising that Pres. Talat is saying that the liklihood of agreement being reached by April 2010 is diminishing. Somebody may have to go in and re-draw those red lines if there is to be any hope of a solution, or else the partition is going to perpetuate...

[Viewpoint]

So Piratis, you are saying that it was the traitors (you love this word, you bash patriot, you cannot live in a world without traitors, because you would have no one to blame for your shortcomings) that prevented us from scoring a huge victory over the foreign imperialists and of course uniting Cyprus with Greece.

I say that you live on cloud nine and that it was the myopic view of the lawyers, priests and Grivas's at the time (all bash patriots) who started a form of a struggle that would inevitably lead to disaster as it did not took into consideration the forces involved in our area at the time. Damn it, even Greece was against it (we breath with two lungs, one English and the other American) and you have the audacity to repeat time and time again that it was the traitors like me (I was 5 at the time) that betrayed the struggle and not the miscalculations of the strategy needed regarding the form of struggle that would stand a more realistic chance to succeed.

I put it to you that if you are looking for traitor you do not need to look very far. They are in the soul of the bash patriots who continue until today to sell coal for gold, thinking that they will always be in a position to deceive the people with their bash patriotic rhetoric.

If the Imperialists could achieve their aims without traitors, then why did they use such traitors? Why for example didn't they bring more of their own troops to fight against our revolution and they instead hired TCs to do their dirty job?

If you prefer to call you idiot instead of traitor, then fine. I gave you this option before and you can take it if you believe it is more appropriate.

The fact is that we asked for nothing less and nothing more than what was our rights. For many decades we were asking to be allowed to peacefully and freely decide the destiny of our own island and this undisputed right was denied to us by the Imperialists. Revolution was our last resort, and if it wasn't for traitors/idiots like you, then we would have succeeded.

Revolution was what you got but not from GCs a large portion of the popultion who did not want to become part of Greece, its a 2 way street but you have yet to acknowledge that when democracy is used to the disadvantage of a large number of people they will do everything within their power to fight back and survive which is exactly what we did.

In what way would union with Greece disadvantage your community in Cyprus when compared to say the Greek community in Turkey?

Cyprus instead of being part of the Ottoman or British empires against the will of Cypriot people and with Cypriots being mere subjects of those empires imposed on us, it would be part of the Greek Republic, which was the wish of the vast majority of Cypriots, and all Cypriots would be equal Greek citizens, not subjects of some empire. None of your human rights would be violated if Cyprus was united with Greece.

How was it fine for you to impose the Ottoman empire on us for 300+ years, but not OK for the Cypriot people to democratically choose to be part of the Greek Republic?

Still we made a compromise to our RIGHT and accepted that Cyprus will not be part of Greece. Today there are very few Cypriots that support that such thing should happen. And although we made this and many other compromises, you made none and you are still trying to violate our human and democratic rights in order to create some "Turkish State" over territory which historically, for 1000s of years, had a GC majority.

You still have problems understanding that if the majority force a substantial part of their population into a situation such as enosis which for them is equal to death you will get a revolution and thats what happened. You brushed aside the concerns of the TCs as you do today and try to impose your will as you did in 1963 and even today during the talks, well that path will not work TCs will always fight for what they believe in even if it means assimilating to Turkey have no doubt we will do it.

You only compromised after you knew you had lost the battle and dont give me you were forced into the 1960 agreements you did it to get rid of the Brits thinking you could get rid of us later but you forgot one thing we belong here and are not going anywhere.

Equivalent to death for us (or ethnic cleansing at best) has been your partition aim. How was union with Greece equivalent with death for you? Rhodes island united with Greece in 1947 and your minority there not only was not killed, but they had a 20% increase in their population since then.

So stop trying to justify your crimes with baseless imaginary assumptions. The fact is that we asked for what was our RIGHT and you collaborated with foreign Imperialists and attacked us in order to deprive us from our rights and have gains on our expense.

We would collaborate with devil to stop you from turning Cyprus our home into Greece, do you think just because the majority have the right to misuse their advanatge we are going to sit back and do nothing you are totally wrong and are no where near close to understanding why people revolt and will do so in any country where a substantial part of the population feel so strongly against a decision they will take to the streets and do what is necessary to oppose what they feel with ruin or risk their lives. Rhodes is not Cyprus and you cannot for one moment say that if we united with Greece everything would have been rosey this is sheer crap and with the TCs feeling so strongly against this is would only have been a few years and the intercommunal fighting would have exploded. You must understand you cannot ignore or force a substantial part of your population to do someting against their will otherwise you will have anarchy leading to revolt, this is where you GCs went wrong and still persist by showing the same mindset, TCs if not convinced that unification is a better deal that the current status quo will not be forced into anything, so what you need to do it stop spouting your text book responses and start trying to get the TCs on board rather than continue to push them away which will mean you will lose the north forever. We are part of this island and are not ging anywhere, if you canoot understand that we are equal partners and have to act according then stay south and keep pining for a chnage in power that will give you what you want becuase you will die waiting as nothing will change, in fact that swing may just go the other way to what you desire.

[Malapapa]

Give the 'red lines' that either side say that they won't go beyond, It's not surprising that Pres. Talat is saying that the liklihood of agreement being reached by April 2010 is diminishing. Somebody may have to go in and re-draw those red lines if there is to be any hope of a solution, or else the partition is going to perpetuate...

Hang on a minute. The property issue isn't a red line; it's a matter of what each individual Cypriot property owner is entitled to, according to international law. Christofias could try and do a deal on property but what would prevent individuals challenging any such concession going forward?

[Viewpoint]

enosis came first and you well know it, 1571 changed the mosiac of Cyprus forever the ideology that Cyprus was Greek came well before and still thrives today. The only difference in our fight for what we believe is that we suceeded to physically divide the island and create our own country recognized only by Turkey and you got your oen GC state uniting Cyprus to Greece allbeit through the EU.

If you have no enosis dream taksim would never have been born, why would we need it if we lived in peace and posperity as one people on an independent island?

What you want to say is "Why would we settle for half the island if we could occupy the whole of it as we did during Ottoman rule".

Because if you wanted an independent island you had all the power to do it during your rule, even before Greece was independent and therefore even before any enosis cause.

The fact is that you wanted to force your rule in as much territories as possible. During Ottoman rule you could force your rule over the whole of the island, later it became feasible for you to force your rule over only half of it. Unfortunately for you forcing your rule over Cyprus (or parts of it) does not make it yours, even if you occupy it for 300+ years, and therefore the whole of Cyprus will be liberated from your illegal occupation eventually either you like it or not.

I dont give a shit about the Ottoman times they are long gone and the scene was changed forever. The TCs are just as much indigenous to Cyprus as you GCs so time you got off your high horse and strted to realize that what is important is when we made a fresh start the 1960 agreemmets where for the first time we had the opportunity to unite and bring this island together and build a Cypriot people, we all fucked up big time and you yourself admit that GCs contributed to the shit that resılted in 1974 and the current divided. The only way out is to compromise and if you are not willing to accept BBF with political equality you can continue playing the same text reponses all you want it get you absolutely nowhere the last 35 years is enought testiment to prove that or you can start to work to bring TCs into the equation but clearly stating they will have an effcetive say in their own country and how the GCs will no longer be able to brush them to one side...lets hear what you propose?

[Viewpoint]

The exchange between Piratis and Viewpoint illustrates once again why we are never going to find an agreed solution...Stripped down Piratis is saying "You were the aggressors in 1571 and ever since...GCs has suffered more and for longer than the TCs,so dont look for any sympathy or understanding from us.It is majority rule or nothing!"And VP is saying "You will always blame us for the original sin,will never appreciate our pain and sufering,so we cannot ever trust you...It is partition of nothing..." Never the twine shall meet!!! or whatever the saying is...

Now do you understand Bir why we cannot agree a solution the chasm is just to wide and the midset is still the same, why force a marriage when the only real structure that has brought a peaceful exsistence to this island has been the intervention of 1974....the GCs continue to prove some people were correct.