Cyprus-Forum.com

[Sotos]

Expat Kiwi said: Oracle, no less a world leader than Vladimir Putin said that the Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus had a better claim to ligitimacy than Kosovo- He was being sarcastic Cousi-bro now go listen to "She a slice of heaven" and read a Foot rot flat comic!

A monkey can understand sarcasm better than Expatwiki. (here is a tip expat: "trnc" = monkey. Get it? no? Try harder ... get it? NO? )

[Oracle]

Everything you say is irrelevant because the Republic of Cyprus is in the EU and the Turks are illegally possessing the property and territory of EU citizens who are now taking Turkey to court and establishing de jure the illegality and Human Rights violations of this occupation. This overrides all other considerations or comparisons to any other "states" ... Quite simply the "trnc" is so far down the line from any worthwhile comparisons with any other "breakaway regimes" that you are a fool for wasting your time trying to draw/synthesise any parallels. Not to mention the illegal colonisation process which minute by minute changes the demographics and foils your "permanent population" myth.

Oracle, no less a world leader than Vladimir Putin said that the Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus had a better claim to ligitimacy than Kosovo, and more than sixty countries now recognize Kosovo as a Sovereign state! Also, no less a person than GR posted an item in another forum stating that all peoples had an inalienable right to self-determination. So something is wrong somewhere...

So, consider what he meant by that! If Kosovo has zero reasons for legitimacy (I take it you agree Putin thinks their claims are ZERO) and the "trnc" has, let's say, three times more (self-evaluated) "reasons" than Kosovo's ZERO reasons ... Then, what does 3 X 0 make?

I hope your maths isn't as poor as your "integrity" ....

[CopperLine]

Sorry to bother you with a question like this but I need it for a project. If anyone knows anything about the issue please give some information about it. Thank You...

The international legal differences hinge on four related sets of issues.

First, there is the vexed question of what constitutes or defines a state. Any standard international law textbook will give a standard range of responses, invariably including permanent population, defined territory, de facto government and a capacity to enter into international relations with other states. On that score Taiwan and TRNC could claim similar status insofar as both have - how shall we say ? - difficulty in realising the fourth of these conditions.

Second, therefore, is the question of what is called 'legal personality' and especially 'international personality'. How do you get this when you didn't have it before ? One key way is simply to be recognised by as many other states as possible. And here is a big difference between Taiwan and TRNC. The former had been recognised by most states until the early 1970s when it 'flipped', following a change in Sino-US relations, so that most states now recognise PRC, not ROC. Having said that ROC still receives recognition from 20+ states. By contrast TRNC has only received formal recognition from Turkey. (The other thing that unites Taiwan and Cyprus is the murderous machinations of Henry Kissinger).


Third, there is the the question of what is called 'state succession'. In the case or China (formal name, People's Republic of China, PRC) and Taiwan (formal name, Republic of China, RoC) the former claimed that it was, since 1949, the legitimate successor of the old KMT regime. By contrast RoC claimed that it was the legitimate successor and that the PRC was a usurping and illegitimate state.

There are those supportive of the TRNC who claim something very similar. That is to say the old regime of 1960 Republic of Cyprus effectively collapsed/failed/lost legitimacy and was succeeded by the new albeit separatist TRNC. Whether one agrees with that depiction is clearly a matter of contention.

Fourth, there is the question of self-determination. Movements in both Taiwan and TRNC claim that they are simply exercising their right to self-determination, irrespective of whether other states (point 2 above) recognise them or not.

CopperLine the Nazis, just like the Turks, also claimed various things to excuse the puppet regimes they installed on the territories they occupied.

IRRELEVANT AND INCOMPARABLE

Way more relevant than comparing the "trnc" to Taiwan. Taiwan does not have a regime installed by a foreign invader on the land illegally occupied, as is the case with "trnc" and the puppet regimes of Hitler.

The case of the "trnc" is more similar to the case of those Nazi puppet regimes which Hitler installed over the territories he occupied, with the only difference that the Nazis did not perform ethnic cleansing over the territories which they illegally occupied.

UN-BLOODYBELIEVABLE. THIS HAS GOT TO BE THE MOST IGNORANT STATEMENT I'VE HAD THE MISFORTUNE TO READ ON THIS FORUM. Czechoslovakia, Poland, Belgium, Netherlands, Denmark, Norway, France, Italy, Yugoslavia, Albania, Greece, Bulgaria, Romania, Hungary, Ukraine, Soviet states ......

Yes mate. The Nazis killed many people. But they didn't ethnically cleanse a territory of an occupied territory from almost the entire native population, replacing them with Germans. Did they?

I believe some other fascists (Mussolini etc) recognized as legitimate the puppet regimes that Hitler installed in the occupied territories.

FRANKLY WHAT YOU BELIEVE PIRATIS IS A BLOODY MYSTERY

The Turks so far didn't find even one other country to recognize their crimes as legitimate.

So to conclude, there are various unrecognized states, which they are unrecognized for various very different reasons.

YOU DON'T SAY SHERLOCK

The reasons the "trnc" is not recognized have absolutely no relationship to the reasons why Taiwan is not recognized. Some states, like Kurdistan and Palestine, deserve to be recognized, while some other, which are a result of foreign invasions and crimes against humanity, such as the puppet regimes of Hitler and the "trnc", have absolutely no right to exist.

YOU CAN'T EVEN SEE THE IRONY OF WHAT YOU'VE WRITTEN HERE.

Do you really consider yourselves better than the Nazis? At least the Germans admitted and regretted for the genocides and the crimes they committed. On the other hand, not only you do not admit your crimes of the past (genocides against Armenians, Greeks and many others, oppression and mass killing of Kurds, illegal invasion and ethnic cleansing in Cyprus), but you continue trying to justify and legitimize your crimes against others.

Piratis
You strike me as a very odd fellow. Why don't you want someone to even ask the question "what are the differences between Taiwan and the TRNC" (not as you put in your post "comparing the 'TRNC' to Taiwan) ? Why don't you like people posting responses to a perfectly reasonable question ? That's the polite response to you.

The not-so-polite response to you last post is "what the fuck are you talking about ?" You have no idea who you are addressing. You don't know me from Adam. How dare you liken me to the Nazis. How dare you suggest that I have committed crimes against humanity ? How dare you accuse me of genocide ? What kind of sick little ignorant schmuck are you ?

If you've got something civil to say then say so and I'll engage. If you are just going to throw around baseless, offensive libels then forget it.

[Get Real!]

To quickly sum things up, the main difference is that …

Taiwan is the result of an INTERNAL Chinese “communism Vs capitalism” affair, whereas the “TRNC” is the result of an invasion & occupation (EXTERNAL) of a neighboring (to Cyprus) country.

[Piratis]

Sorry to bother you with a question like this but I need it for a project. If anyone knows anything about the issue please give some information about it. Thank You...

The international legal differences hinge on four related sets of issues.

First, there is the vexed question of what constitutes or defines a state. Any standard international law textbook will give a standard range of responses, invariably including permanent population, defined territory, de facto government and a capacity to enter into international relations with other states. On that score Taiwan and TRNC could claim similar status insofar as both have - how shall we say ? - difficulty in realising the fourth of these conditions.

Second, therefore, is the question of what is called 'legal personality' and especially 'international personality'. How do you get this when you didn't have it before ? One key way is simply to be recognised by as many other states as possible. And here is a big difference between Taiwan and TRNC. The former had been recognised by most states until the early 1970s when it 'flipped', following a change in Sino-US relations, so that most states now recognise PRC, not ROC. Having said that ROC still receives recognition from 20+ states. By contrast TRNC has only received formal recognition from Turkey. (The other thing that unites Taiwan and Cyprus is the murderous machinations of Henry Kissinger).


Third, there is the the question of what is called 'state succession'. In the case or China (formal name, People's Republic of China, PRC) and Taiwan (formal name, Republic of China, RoC) the former claimed that it was, since 1949, the legitimate successor of the old KMT regime. By contrast RoC claimed that it was the legitimate successor and that the PRC was a usurping and illegitimate state.

There are those supportive of the TRNC who claim something very similar. That is to say the old regime of 1960 Republic of Cyprus effectively collapsed/failed/lost legitimacy and was succeeded by the new albeit separatist TRNC. Whether one agrees with that depiction is clearly a matter of contention.

Fourth, there is the question of self-determination. Movements in both Taiwan and TRNC claim that they are simply exercising their right to self-determination, irrespective of whether other states (point 2 above) recognise them or not.

CopperLine the Nazis, just like the Turks, also claimed various things to excuse the puppet regimes they installed on the territories they occupied.

IRRELEVANT AND INCOMPARABLE

Way more relevant than comparing the "trnc" to Taiwan. Taiwan does not have a regime installed by a foreign invader on the land illegally occupied, as is the case with "trnc" and the puppet regimes of Hitler.

The case of the "trnc" is more similar to the case of those Nazi puppet regimes which Hitler installed over the territories he occupied, with the only difference that the Nazis did not perform ethnic cleansing over the territories which they illegally occupied.

UN-BLOODYBELIEVABLE. THIS HAS GOT TO BE THE MOST IGNORANT STATEMENT I'VE HAD THE MISFORTUNE TO READ ON THIS FORUM. Czechoslovakia, Poland, Belgium, Netherlands, Denmark, Norway, France, Italy, Yugoslavia, Albania, Greece, Bulgaria, Romania, Hungary, Ukraine, Soviet states ......

Yes mate. The Nazis killed many people. But they didn't ethnically cleanse a territory of an occupied territory from almost the entire native population, replacing them with Germans. Did they?

I believe some other fascists (Mussolini etc) recognized as legitimate the puppet regimes that Hitler installed in the occupied territories.

FRANKLY WHAT YOU BELIEVE PIRATIS IS A BLOODY MYSTERY

The Turks so far didn't find even one other country to recognize their crimes as legitimate.

So to conclude, there are various unrecognized states, which they are unrecognized for various very different reasons.

YOU DON'T SAY SHERLOCK

The reasons the "trnc" is not recognized have absolutely no relationship to the reasons why Taiwan is not recognized. Some states, like Kurdistan and Palestine, deserve to be recognized, while some other, which are a result of foreign invasions and crimes against humanity, such as the puppet regimes of Hitler and the "trnc", have absolutely no right to exist.

YOU CAN'T EVEN SEE THE IRONY OF WHAT YOU'VE WRITTEN HERE.

Do you really consider yourselves better than the Nazis? At least the Germans admitted and regretted for the genocides and the crimes they committed. On the other hand, not only you do not admit your crimes of the past (genocides against Armenians, Greeks and many others, oppression and mass killing of Kurds, illegal invasion and ethnic cleansing in Cyprus), but you continue trying to justify and legitimize your crimes against others.

Piratis
You strike me as a very odd fellow. Why don't you want someone to even ask the question "what are the differences between Taiwan and the TRNC" (not as you put in your post "comparing the 'TRNC' to Taiwan) ? Why don't you like people posting responses to a perfectly reasonable question ? That's the polite response to you.

I have no problem at all when people are asking questions, which is why I answered the question.

The not-so-polite response to you last post is "what the fuck are you talking about ?" You have no idea who you are addressing. You don't know me from Adam. How dare you liken me to the Nazis. How dare you suggest that I have committed crimes against humanity ? How dare you accuse me of genocide ? What kind of sick little ignorant schmuck are you ?

If you've got something civil to say then say so and I'll engage. If you are just going to throw around baseless, offensive libels then forget it.

I was talking about Turkey, not you personally, but apparently you support the criminal actions of the Turkish regime, which is why you took the issue personally.

If you don't support the genocides committed by Turkey (do you even recognize them?), if you don't support the mass murdering and oppression of Kurds (or do you call them "Mountain Turks"?) and if you don't support the invasion, occupation and ethnic cleansing Turkey committed in Cyprus (or do you call it a "peace operation"?) then come out and clear your position and disassociate yourself from the criminal actions of the Turkish regime. So far you didn't do this.

All my replies to you were civilized, including this one. On the contrary when you were cornered you resorted to name calling and personal attacks. I will not drop to your level.

[Expatkiwi]

Expat Kiwi said: Oracle, no less a world leader than Vladimir Putin said that the Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus had a better claim to ligitimacy than Kosovo- He was being sarcastic Cousi-bro now go listen to "She a slice of heaven" and read a Foot rot flat comic!

I've read all of the Footrot Flats comics, thank you. Here in the USA, it's Garfield.

[CopperLine]

Sorry to bother you with a question like this but I need it for a project. If anyone knows anything about the issue please give some information about it. Thank You...

The international legal differences hinge on four related sets of issues.

First, there is the vexed question of what constitutes or defines a state. Any standard international law textbook will give a standard range of responses, invariably including permanent population, defined territory, de facto government and a capacity to enter into international relations with other states. On that score Taiwan and TRNC could claim similar status insofar as both have - how shall we say ? - difficulty in realising the fourth of these conditions.

Second, therefore, is the question of what is called 'legal personality' and especially 'international personality'. How do you get this when you didn't have it before ? One key way is simply to be recognised by as many other states as possible. And here is a big difference between Taiwan and TRNC. The former had been recognised by most states until the early 1970s when it 'flipped', following a change in Sino-US relations, so that most states now recognise PRC, not ROC. Having said that ROC still receives recognition from 20+ states. By contrast TRNC has only received formal recognition from Turkey. (The other thing that unites Taiwan and Cyprus is the murderous machinations of Henry Kissinger).


Third, there is the the question of what is called 'state succession'. In the case or China (formal name, People's Republic of China, PRC) and Taiwan (formal name, Republic of China, RoC) the former claimed that it was, since 1949, the legitimate successor of the old KMT regime. By contrast RoC claimed that it was the legitimate successor and that the PRC was a usurping and illegitimate state.

There are those supportive of the TRNC who claim something very similar. That is to say the old regime of 1960 Republic of Cyprus effectively collapsed/failed/lost legitimacy and was succeeded by the new albeit separatist TRNC. Whether one agrees with that depiction is clearly a matter of contention.

Fourth, there is the question of self-determination. Movements in both Taiwan and TRNC claim that they are simply exercising their right to self-determination, irrespective of whether other states (point 2 above) recognise them or not.

CopperLine the Nazis, just like the Turks, also claimed various things to excuse the puppet regimes they installed on the territories they occupied.

IRRELEVANT AND INCOMPARABLE

Way more relevant than comparing the "trnc" to Taiwan. Taiwan does not have a regime installed by a foreign invader on the land illegally occupied, as is the case with "trnc" and the puppet regimes of Hitler.

The case of the "trnc" is more similar to the case of those Nazi puppet regimes which Hitler installed over the territories he occupied, with the only difference that the Nazis did not perform ethnic cleansing over the territories which they illegally occupied.

UN-BLOODYBELIEVABLE. THIS HAS GOT TO BE THE MOST IGNORANT STATEMENT I'VE HAD THE MISFORTUNE TO READ ON THIS FORUM. Czechoslovakia, Poland, Belgium, Netherlands, Denmark, Norway, France, Italy, Yugoslavia, Albania, Greece, Bulgaria, Romania, Hungary, Ukraine, Soviet states ......

Yes mate. The Nazis killed many people. But they didn't ethnically cleanse a territory of an occupied territory from almost the entire native population, replacing them with Germans. Did they?

I believe some other fascists (Mussolini etc) recognized as legitimate the puppet regimes that Hitler installed in the occupied territories.

FRANKLY WHAT YOU BELIEVE PIRATIS IS A BLOODY MYSTERY

The Turks so far didn't find even one other country to recognize their crimes as legitimate.

So to conclude, there are various unrecognized states, which they are unrecognized for various very different reasons.

YOU DON'T SAY SHERLOCK

The reasons the "trnc" is not recognized have absolutely no relationship to the reasons why Taiwan is not recognized. Some states, like Kurdistan and Palestine, deserve to be recognized, while some other, which are a result of foreign invasions and crimes against humanity, such as the puppet regimes of Hitler and the "trnc", have absolutely no right to exist.

YOU CAN'T EVEN SEE THE IRONY OF WHAT YOU'VE WRITTEN HERE.

Do you really consider yourselves better than the Nazis? At least the Germans admitted and regretted for the genocides and the crimes they committed. On the other hand, not only you do not admit your crimes of the past (genocides against Armenians, Greeks and many others, oppression and mass killing of Kurds, illegal invasion and ethnic cleansing in Cyprus), but you continue trying to justify and legitimize your crimes against others.

Piratis
You strike me as a very odd fellow. Why don't you want someone to even ask the question "what are the differences between Taiwan and the TRNC" (not as you put in your post "comparing the 'TRNC' to Taiwan) ? Why don't you like people posting responses to a perfectly reasonable question ? That's the polite response to you.

I have no problem at all when people are asking questions, which is why I answered the question.

The not-so-polite response to you last post is "what the fuck are you talking about ?" You have no idea who you are addressing. You don't know me from Adam. How dare you liken me to the Nazis. How dare you suggest that I have committed crimes against humanity ? How dare you accuse me of genocide ? What kind of sick little ignorant schmuck are you ?

If you've got something civil to say then say so and I'll engage. If you are just going to throw around baseless, offensive libels then forget it.

I was talking about Turkey, not you personally, but apparently you support the criminal actions of the Turkish regime, which is why you took the issue personally.

If you don't support the genocides committed by Turkey (do you even recognize them?), if you don't support the mass murdering and oppression of Kurds (or do you call them "Mountain Turks"?) and if you don't support the invasion, occupation and ethnic cleansing Turkey committed in Cyprus (or do you call it a "peace operation"?) then come out and clear your position and disassociate yourself from the criminal actions of the Turkish regime. So far you didn't do this.

All my replies to you were civilized, including this one. On the contrary when you were cornered you resorted to name calling and personal attacks. I will not drop to your level.

Piratis
I should not have to defend myself against false and libellous accusations from you. I should not have to reply to your allegations made directly against me, in direct response to my posts. It is you who alleged that I had committed genocide and ethnic cleansing, that I was no better (in fact worse) than the Nazis, and that I was somehow responsible for the crimes of Turkey. You did not say, nor imply, that this was not a personal allegation. Indeed in your last reply you try to withdraw the slur with the left hand whilst repeating it with the right hand. So you repeat your assumption and allegation that " apparently you support the criminal actions of the Turkish regime," What the fuck !!! Either you have not read my posts on this forum or, for lord knows what reason, you have systematically ignored what I have posted about Turkey. It seems that without a jot of evidence you have assumed that I am a die-hard Turkish nationalist. Well what can I say other than I am not, your assumptions are wrong, your target is wrong, your allegations are wrong and your assessment is wrong.

I did not "name call" until you made those outrageous slurs against me. If you go back through my posts I endeavour to address the question or problem that has been posed by a poster, not with the supposed personality of the poster. Sometimes, particularly with the frankly bonkers Oracle, I don't succeed in that ambition. You might not like my assessments or agree with my interpretations - I invariably disagree with yours - so be it. But do not make baseless and offensive accusations. It is intolerable.

[Expatkiwi]

Copperline,

Personal slurs and character attacks seem to be a trademark of this forum. I've had plenty of them levelled against me. I prefer to see them as evidence that they have a very thin skin, otherwise they would not reply to the posts.

[Piratis]

Sorry to bother you with a question like this but I need it for a project. If anyone knows anything about the issue please give some information about it. Thank You...

The international legal differences hinge on four related sets of issues.

First, there is the vexed question of what constitutes or defines a state. Any standard international law textbook will give a standard range of responses, invariably including permanent population, defined territory, de facto government and a capacity to enter into international relations with other states. On that score Taiwan and TRNC could claim similar status insofar as both have - how shall we say ? - difficulty in realising the fourth of these conditions.

Second, therefore, is the question of what is called 'legal personality' and especially 'international personality'. How do you get this when you didn't have it before ? One key way is simply to be recognised by as many other states as possible. And here is a big difference between Taiwan and TRNC. The former had been recognised by most states until the early 1970s when it 'flipped', following a change in Sino-US relations, so that most states now recognise PRC, not ROC. Having said that ROC still receives recognition from 20+ states. By contrast TRNC has only received formal recognition from Turkey. (The other thing that unites Taiwan and Cyprus is the murderous machinations of Henry Kissinger).


Third, there is the the question of what is called 'state succession'. In the case or China (formal name, People's Republic of China, PRC) and Taiwan (formal name, Republic of China, RoC) the former claimed that it was, since 1949, the legitimate successor of the old KMT regime. By contrast RoC claimed that it was the legitimate successor and that the PRC was a usurping and illegitimate state.

There are those supportive of the TRNC who claim something very similar. That is to say the old regime of 1960 Republic of Cyprus effectively collapsed/failed/lost legitimacy and was succeeded by the new albeit separatist TRNC. Whether one agrees with that depiction is clearly a matter of contention.

Fourth, there is the question of self-determination. Movements in both Taiwan and TRNC claim that they are simply exercising their right to self-determination, irrespective of whether other states (point 2 above) recognise them or not.

CopperLine the Nazis, just like the Turks, also claimed various things to excuse the puppet regimes they installed on the territories they occupied.

IRRELEVANT AND INCOMPARABLE

Way more relevant than comparing the "trnc" to Taiwan. Taiwan does not have a regime installed by a foreign invader on the land illegally occupied, as is the case with "trnc" and the puppet regimes of Hitler.

The case of the "trnc" is more similar to the case of those Nazi puppet regimes which Hitler installed over the territories he occupied, with the only difference that the Nazis did not perform ethnic cleansing over the territories which they illegally occupied.

UN-BLOODYBELIEVABLE. THIS HAS GOT TO BE THE MOST IGNORANT STATEMENT I'VE HAD THE MISFORTUNE TO READ ON THIS FORUM. Czechoslovakia, Poland, Belgium, Netherlands, Denmark, Norway, France, Italy, Yugoslavia, Albania, Greece, Bulgaria, Romania, Hungary, Ukraine, Soviet states ......

Yes mate. The Nazis killed many people. But they didn't ethnically cleanse a territory of an occupied territory from almost the entire native population, replacing them with Germans. Did they?

I believe some other fascists (Mussolini etc) recognized as legitimate the puppet regimes that Hitler installed in the occupied territories.

FRANKLY WHAT YOU BELIEVE PIRATIS IS A BLOODY MYSTERY

The Turks so far didn't find even one other country to recognize their crimes as legitimate.

So to conclude, there are various unrecognized states, which they are unrecognized for various very different reasons.

YOU DON'T SAY SHERLOCK

The reasons the "trnc" is not recognized have absolutely no relationship to the reasons why Taiwan is not recognized. Some states, like Kurdistan and Palestine, deserve to be recognized, while some other, which are a result of foreign invasions and crimes against humanity, such as the puppet regimes of Hitler and the "trnc", have absolutely no right to exist.

YOU CAN'T EVEN SEE THE IRONY OF WHAT YOU'VE WRITTEN HERE.

Do you really consider yourselves better than the Nazis? At least the Germans admitted and regretted for the genocides and the crimes they committed. On the other hand, not only you do not admit your crimes of the past (genocides against Armenians, Greeks and many others, oppression and mass killing of Kurds, illegal invasion and ethnic cleansing in Cyprus), but you continue trying to justify and legitimize your crimes against others.

Piratis
You strike me as a very odd fellow. Why don't you want someone to even ask the question "what are the differences between Taiwan and the TRNC" (not as you put in your post "comparing the 'TRNC' to Taiwan) ? Why don't you like people posting responses to a perfectly reasonable question ? That's the polite response to you.

I have no problem at all when people are asking questions, which is why I answered the question.

The not-so-polite response to you last post is "what the fuck are you talking about ?" You have no idea who you are addressing. You don't know me from Adam. How dare you liken me to the Nazis. How dare you suggest that I have committed crimes against humanity ? How dare you accuse me of genocide ? What kind of sick little ignorant schmuck are you ?

If you've got something civil to say then say so and I'll engage. If you are just going to throw around baseless, offensive libels then forget it.

I was talking about Turkey, not you personally, but apparently you support the criminal actions of the Turkish regime, which is why you took the issue personally.

If you don't support the genocides committed by Turkey (do you even recognize them?), if you don't support the mass murdering and oppression of Kurds (or do you call them "Mountain Turks"?) and if you don't support the invasion, occupation and ethnic cleansing Turkey committed in Cyprus (or do you call it a "peace operation"?) then come out and clear your position and disassociate yourself from the criminal actions of the Turkish regime. So far you didn't do this.

All my replies to you were civilized, including this one. On the contrary when you were cornered you resorted to name calling and personal attacks. I will not drop to your level.

Piratis
I should not have to defend myself against false and libellous accusations from you. I should not have to reply to your allegations made directly against me, in direct response to my posts. It is you who alleged that I had committed genocide and ethnic cleansing, that I was no better (in fact worse) than the Nazis, and that I was somehow responsible for the crimes of Turkey. You did not say, nor imply, that this was not a personal allegation. Indeed in your last reply you try to withdraw the slur with the left hand whilst repeating it with the right hand. So you repeat your assumption and allegation that " apparently you support the criminal actions of the Turkish regime," What the fuck !!! Either you have not read my posts on this forum or, for lord knows what reason, you have systematically ignored what I have posted about Turkey. It seems that without a jot of evidence you have assumed that I am a die-hard Turkish nationalist. Well what can I say other than I am not, your assumptions are wrong, your target is wrong, your allegations are wrong and your assessment is wrong.

I did not "name call" until you made those outrageous slurs against me. If you go back through my posts I endeavour to address the question or problem that has been posed by a poster, not with the supposed personality of the poster. Sometimes, particularly with the frankly bonkers Oracle, I don't succeed in that ambition. You might not like my assessments or agree with my interpretations - I invariably disagree with yours - so be it. But do not make baseless and offensive accusations. It is intolerable.

Can you please give me a link in any of your posts in this forum where you condemn the Turkish invasion, the occupation of Cyprus by Turkish troops, the ethnic cleansing, and the illegal declaration of the "trnc"? I gave you a chance to do so in this thread, but you again avoided doing so.

All I see from you is trying to excuse the crimes by Turkey. You even got upset when I pointed out to you that the "trnc" is more similar to the puppet regimes that Hitler was installing in the territories he invaded and occupied, rather than with irrelevant cases such as the one of Taiwan. (which has nothing to do with a foreign invasion and occupation).

[CopperLine]

Can you please give me a link in any of your posts in this forum where you condemn the Turkish invasion, the occupation of Cyprus by Turkish troops, the ethnic cleansing, and the illegal declaration of the "trnc"? I gave you a chance to do so in this thread, but you again avoided doing so.

I see, I see. Should I take this request as evidence that you have not read my previous posts condemning Turkish fascism, Turkey's suppression of Kurds, Turkey's violation of a raft of human rights - from workers rights, to language rights, to freedom of expression, and so on - Turkey's anti-democratic political history, and so on. Or should I take this request as evidence that you just ignored my postings when they didn't confirm your prejudices about me ? Or should I take this request as evidence that you can't be bothered to check up on material before you post reckless allegations.

You should know by now that I don't respond to leading questions, and yours is a leading question. Incidentally, when will you provide evidence to me that you've stopped beating your wife ? (Is this an outrageous suggestion and baseless allegation to make about you Piratis which you resent and refuse to provide evidence ?)

All I see from you is trying to excuse the crimes by Turkey. You even got upset when I pointed out to you that the "trnc" is more similar to the puppet regimes that Hitler was installing in the territories he invaded and occupied, rather than with irrelevant cases such as the one of Taiwan. (which has nothing to do with a foreign invasion and occupation).

I don't really know why I even bother replying to this nonsense. But here goes ... (I) Where have I excused Turkey's crimes ? What I try to do is explain why T, or TRNC or RoC or whichever state does the things that it has done. Or to try to work out why people try to justify their actions in certain terms. And so on. Just like the analysis of torture or the analysis of war does not entail the endorsement of either, so the analysis of the Cyprus question does not entail the support of any particular side. As I have said several times on this forum my politics are anti-nationalist, internationalist, democratic, anti-militarist, secular and socialist. In a nutshell, regarding GC and TC and Turkish (and Greek) nationalists : a plague on all your houses.

(II) I didn't get upset with your similarity of TRNC and a Nazi occupied territory, I just thought it absurd. Look Piratis the quoted deaths arising directly out of the 1974 division and afterwards are 1500 for GCs missing since 1974, and around about 5,000 killed during the conflict. I don't know whether these figures are at the high or low end of the spectrum of quoted figures. I do know that the first figure is roughly the number quoted before the ECHR. To this let us add 150,000-200,000 displaced from the north albeit to a safe haven. And you say this is similar to a Nazi occupied country. Piratis, more Greeks went up the Nazi crematoria chimney in one day than were killed in the entire Cyprus conflict. Ten times more people were 'cleansed' from Ukraine by the Nazis than the entire population of Cyprus in 1974. In 1945 in Germany alone there were 5.8 million displaced people i.e, forcibly taken from Nazi occupied territories and sent to Germany. Eight years after the war ended there were still 5.5 million Soviet nationals who had been displaced by the Nazis - ethnically cleansed, forced labour, slave labour, etc - who were then forcibly repatriated to the various Soviet republics. .... and I could go on .... so you see Piratis your claim that TRNC or Turkey's effect on GCs or RoC is like Nazi German invasion and illegally occupied territories is just plain silly.

(III) The issue at hand was the difference between Taiwan and TRNC, not Nazi history. It was not I who introduced the comparison and differences between Taiwan and TRNC, I simply responded to that question by noting the international legal differences and similarities particularly regarding recognition. It was you who introduced the Nazi comparison. I think that comparison quite misplaced, quite misleading and historically ignorant, whereas you dismiss as irrelevant the original poster's question. You introduced the issue of invasion in the comparison, though the international legal problem of recognition does not revolve around the issue of invasion. (You might wish it would, but it doesn't - check the legal cases and tests).