Cyprus-Forum.com

[Get Real!]

The "TRNC" is an illegal Turkish occupation of Cypriot sovereign territory...

Hmmm, I always thought that the TRNC was "a natural outcome of the Turkish Cypriot people's right to self determination and sovereignty"...

A Turkish military invasion is nothing natural but an interference to modify natural selection.

As for the TC alleged "right to self determination" that's something you haven't proven yet.

[Piratis]

The "TRNC" is an illegal Turkish occupation of Cypriot sovereign territory...

Hmmm, I always thought that the TRNC was "a natural outcome of the Turkish Cypriot people's right to self determination and sovereignty"...

A Turkish military invasion is nothing natural but an interference to modify natural selection.

As for the TC alleged "right to self determination" that's something you haven't proven yet.

TCs have self-determination and sovereignty right over a territory which is the homeland of 5 times more GCs than TCs?? So you can have a "Turkish State" with a population which is 82% Greek? Or maybe ethnically cleansing the majority of the population and replacing them with illegal Turkish Settlers from Anatolia was also a "right" of TCs?

As the saying goes, "opinions are like assholes, everybody has one". And when you are not able to support your opinion with facts and evidence then your opinion has the worth of a fart.

[CopperLine]

Sorry to bother you with a question like this but I need it for a project. If anyone knows anything about the issue please give some information about it. Thank You...

The international legal differences hinge on four related sets of issues.

First, there is the vexed question of what constitutes or defines a state. Any standard international law textbook will give a standard range of responses, invariably including permanent population, defined territory, de facto government and a capacity to enter into international relations with other states. On that score Taiwan and TRNC could claim similar status insofar as both have - how shall we say ? - difficulty in realising the fourth of these conditions.

Second, therefore, is the question of what is called 'legal personality' and especially 'international personality'. How do you get this when you didn't have it before ? One key way is simply to be recognised by as many other states as possible. And here is a big difference between Taiwan and TRNC. The former had been recognised by most states until the early 1970s when it 'flipped', following a change in Sino-US relations, so that most states now recognise PRC, not ROC. Having said that ROC still receives recognition from 20+ states. By contrast TRNC has only received formal recognition from Turkey. (The other thing that unites Taiwan and Cyprus is the murderous machinations of Henry Kissinger).


Third, there is the the question of what is called 'state succession'. In the case or China (formal name, People's Republic of China, PRC) and Taiwan (formal name, Republic of China, RoC) the former claimed that it was, since 1949, the legitimate successor of the old KMT regime. By contrast RoC claimed that it was the legitimate successor and that the PRC was a usurping and illegitimate state.

There are those supportive of the TRNC who claim something very similar. That is to say the old regime of 1960 Republic of Cyprus effectively collapsed/failed/lost legitimacy and was succeeded by the new albeit separatist TRNC. Whether one agrees with that depiction is clearly a matter of contention.


Fourth, there is the question of self-determination. Movements in both Taiwan and TRNC claim that they are simply exercising their right to self-determination, irrespective of whether other states (point 2 above) recognise them or not.

[Get Real!]

The "TRNC" is an illegal Turkish occupation of Cypriot sovereign territory...

Hmmm, I always thought that the TRNC was "a natural outcome of the Turkish Cypriot people's right to self determination and sovereignty"...

A Turkish military invasion is nothing natural but an interference to modify natural selection.

As for the TC alleged "right to self determination" that's something you haven't proven yet.

TCs have self-determination and sovereignty right over a territory which is the homeland of 5 times more GCs than TCs?? So you can have a "Turkish State" with a population which is 82% Greek? Or maybe ethnically cleansing the majority of the population and replacing them with illegal Turkish Settlers from Anatolia was also a "right" of TCs?

As the saying goes, "opinions are like assholes, everybody has one". And when you are not able to support your opinion with facts and evidence then your opinion has the worth of a fart.

Well there you go Expat!

You have the right to fart all you want and you also get to enjoy the aroma!

[Piratis]

Sorry to bother you with a question like this but I need it for a project. If anyone knows anything about the issue please give some information about it. Thank You...

The international legal differences hinge on four related sets of issues.

First, there is the vexed question of what constitutes or defines a state. Any standard international law textbook will give a standard range of responses, invariably including permanent population, defined territory, de facto government and a capacity to enter into international relations with other states. On that score Taiwan and TRNC could claim similar status insofar as both have - how shall we say ? - difficulty in realising the fourth of these conditions.

Second, therefore, is the question of what is called 'legal personality' and especially 'international personality'. How do you get this when you didn't have it before ? One key way is simply to be recognised by as many other states as possible. And here is a big difference between Taiwan and TRNC. The former had been recognised by most states until the early 1970s when it 'flipped', following a change in Sino-US relations, so that most states now recognise PRC, not ROC. Having said that ROC still receives recognition from 20+ states. By contrast TRNC has only received formal recognition from Turkey. (The other thing that unites Taiwan and Cyprus is the murderous machinations of Henry Kissinger).


Third, there is the the question of what is called 'state succession'. In the case or China (formal name, People's Republic of China, PRC) and Taiwan (formal name, Republic of China, RoC) the former claimed that it was, since 1949, the legitimate successor of the old KMT regime. By contrast RoC claimed that it was the legitimate successor and that the PRC was a usurping and illegitimate state.

There are those supportive of the TRNC who claim something very similar. That is to say the old regime of 1960 Republic of Cyprus effectively collapsed/failed/lost legitimacy and was succeeded by the new albeit separatist TRNC. Whether one agrees with that depiction is clearly a matter of contention.

Fourth, there is the question of self-determination. Movements in both Taiwan and TRNC claim that they are simply exercising their right to self-determination, irrespective of whether other states (point 2 above) recognise them or not.

CopperLine the Nazis, just like the Turks, also claimed various things to excuse the puppet regimes they installed on the territories they occupied.

The case of the "trnc" is more similar to the case of those Nazi puppet regimes which Hitler installed over the territories he occupied, with the only difference that the Nazis did not perform ethnic cleansing over the territories which they illegally occupied.

I believe some other fascists (Mussolini etc) recognized as legitimate the puppet regimes that Hitler installed in the occupied territories. The Turks so far didn't find even one other country to recognize their crimes as legitimate.

So to conclude, there are various unrecognized states, which they are unrecognized for various very different reasons.

The reasons the "trnc" is not recognized have absolutely no relationship to the reasons why Taiwan is not recognized. Some states, like Kurdistan and Palestine, deserve to be recognized, while some other, which are a result of foreign invasions and crimes against humanity, such as the puppet regimes of Hitler and the "trnc", have absolutely no right to exist.

[CopperLine]

Sorry to bother you with a question like this but I need it for a project. If anyone knows anything about the issue please give some information about it. Thank You...

The international legal differences hinge on four related sets of issues.

First, there is the vexed question of what constitutes or defines a state. Any standard international law textbook will give a standard range of responses, invariably including permanent population, defined territory, de facto government and a capacity to enter into international relations with other states. On that score Taiwan and TRNC could claim similar status insofar as both have - how shall we say ? - difficulty in realising the fourth of these conditions.

Second, therefore, is the question of what is called 'legal personality' and especially 'international personality'. How do you get this when you didn't have it before ? One key way is simply to be recognised by as many other states as possible. And here is a big difference between Taiwan and TRNC. The former had been recognised by most states until the early 1970s when it 'flipped', following a change in Sino-US relations, so that most states now recognise PRC, not ROC. Having said that ROC still receives recognition from 20+ states. By contrast TRNC has only received formal recognition from Turkey. (The other thing that unites Taiwan and Cyprus is the murderous machinations of Henry Kissinger).


Third, there is the the question of what is called 'state succession'. In the case or China (formal name, People's Republic of China, PRC) and Taiwan (formal name, Republic of China, RoC) the former claimed that it was, since 1949, the legitimate successor of the old KMT regime. By contrast RoC claimed that it was the legitimate successor and that the PRC was a usurping and illegitimate state.

There are those supportive of the TRNC who claim something very similar. That is to say the old regime of 1960 Republic of Cyprus effectively collapsed/failed/lost legitimacy and was succeeded by the new albeit separatist TRNC. Whether one agrees with that depiction is clearly a matter of contention.

Fourth, there is the question of self-determination. Movements in both Taiwan and TRNC claim that they are simply exercising their right to self-determination, irrespective of whether other states (point 2 above) recognise them or not.

CopperLine the Nazis, just like the Turks, also claimed various things to excuse the puppet regimes they installed on the territories they occupied.

IRRELEVANT AND INCOMPARABLE

The case of the "trnc" is more similar to the case of those Nazi puppet regimes which Hitler installed over the territories he occupied, with the only difference that the Nazis did not perform ethnic cleansing over the territories which they illegally occupied.

UN-BLOODYBELIEVABLE. THIS HAS GOT TO BE THE MOST IGNORANT STATEMENT I'VE HAD THE MISFORTUNE TO READ ON THIS FORUM. Czechoslovakia, Poland, Belgium, Netherlands, Denmark, Norway, France, Italy, Yugoslavia, Albania, Greece, Bulgaria, Romania, Hungary, Ukraine, Soviet states ......

I believe some other fascists (Mussolini etc) recognized as legitimate the puppet regimes that Hitler installed in the occupied territories.

FRANKLY WHAT YOU BELIEVE PIRATIS IS A BLOODY MYSTERY

The Turks so far didn't find even one other country to recognize their crimes as legitimate.

So to conclude, there are various unrecognized states, which they are unrecognized for various very different reasons.

YOU DON'T SAY SHERLOCK

The reasons the "trnc" is not recognized have absolutely no relationship to the reasons why Taiwan is not recognized. Some states, like Kurdistan and Palestine, deserve to be recognized, while some other, which are a result of foreign invasions and crimes against humanity, such as the puppet regimes of Hitler and the "trnc", have absolutely no right to exist.

YOU CAN'T EVEN SEE THE IRONY OF WHAT YOU'VE WRITTEN HERE.

[Oracle]

Sorry to bother you with a question like this but I need it for a project. If anyone knows anything about the issue please give some information about it. Thank You...

The international legal differences hinge on four related sets of issues.

First, there is the vexed question of what constitutes or defines a state. Any standard international law textbook will give a standard range of responses, invariably including permanent population, defined territory, de facto government and a capacity to enter into international relations with other states. On that score Taiwan and TRNC could claim similar status insofar as both have - how shall we say ? - difficulty in realising the fourth of these conditions.

Second, therefore, is the question of what is called 'legal personality' and especially 'international personality'. How do you get this when you didn't have it before ? One key way is simply to be recognised by as many other states as possible. And here is a big difference between Taiwan and TRNC. The former had been recognised by most states until the early 1970s when it 'flipped', following a change in Sino-US relations, so that most states now recognise PRC, not ROC. Having said that ROC still receives recognition from 20+ states. By contrast TRNC has only received formal recognition from Turkey. (The other thing that unites Taiwan and Cyprus is the murderous machinations of Henry Kissinger).


Third, there is the the question of what is called 'state succession'. In the case or China (formal name, People's Republic of China, PRC) and Taiwan (formal name, Republic of China, RoC) the former claimed that it was, since 1949, the legitimate successor of the old KMT regime. By contrast RoC claimed that it was the legitimate successor and that the PRC was a usurping and illegitimate state.

There are those supportive of the TRNC who claim something very similar. That is to say the old regime of 1960 Republic of Cyprus effectively collapsed/failed/lost legitimacy and was succeeded by the new albeit separatist TRNC. Whether one agrees with that depiction is clearly a matter of contention.


Fourth, there is the question of self-determination. Movements in both Taiwan and TRNC claim that they are simply exercising their right to self-determination, irrespective of whether other states (point 2 above) recognise them or not.

Everything you say is irrelevant because the Republic of Cyprus is in the EU and the Turks are illegally possessing the property and territory of EU citizens who are now taking Turkey to court and establishing de jure the illegality and Human Rights violations of this occupation. This overrides all other considerations or comparisons to any other "states" ... Quite simply the "trnc" is so far down the line from any worthwhile comparisons with any other "breakaway regimes" that you are a fool for wasting your time trying to draw/synthesise any parallels. Not to mention the illegal colonisation process which minute by minute changes the demographics and foils your "permanent population" myth.

[Piratis]

Sorry to bother you with a question like this but I need it for a project. If anyone knows anything about the issue please give some information about it. Thank You...

The international legal differences hinge on four related sets of issues.

First, there is the vexed question of what constitutes or defines a state. Any standard international law textbook will give a standard range of responses, invariably including permanent population, defined territory, de facto government and a capacity to enter into international relations with other states. On that score Taiwan and TRNC could claim similar status insofar as both have - how shall we say ? - difficulty in realising the fourth of these conditions.

Second, therefore, is the question of what is called 'legal personality' and especially 'international personality'. How do you get this when you didn't have it before ? One key way is simply to be recognised by as many other states as possible. And here is a big difference between Taiwan and TRNC. The former had been recognised by most states until the early 1970s when it 'flipped', following a change in Sino-US relations, so that most states now recognise PRC, not ROC. Having said that ROC still receives recognition from 20+ states. By contrast TRNC has only received formal recognition from Turkey. (The other thing that unites Taiwan and Cyprus is the murderous machinations of Henry Kissinger).


Third, there is the the question of what is called 'state succession'. In the case or China (formal name, People's Republic of China, PRC) and Taiwan (formal name, Republic of China, RoC) the former claimed that it was, since 1949, the legitimate successor of the old KMT regime. By contrast RoC claimed that it was the legitimate successor and that the PRC was a usurping and illegitimate state.

There are those supportive of the TRNC who claim something very similar. That is to say the old regime of 1960 Republic of Cyprus effectively collapsed/failed/lost legitimacy and was succeeded by the new albeit separatist TRNC. Whether one agrees with that depiction is clearly a matter of contention.

Fourth, there is the question of self-determination. Movements in both Taiwan and TRNC claim that they are simply exercising their right to self-determination, irrespective of whether other states (point 2 above) recognise them or not.

CopperLine the Nazis, just like the Turks, also claimed various things to excuse the puppet regimes they installed on the territories they occupied.

IRRELEVANT AND INCOMPARABLE

Way more relevant than comparing the "trnc" to Taiwan. Taiwan does not have a regime installed by a foreign invader on the land illegally occupied, as is the case with "trnc" and the puppet regimes of Hitler.

The case of the "trnc" is more similar to the case of those Nazi puppet regimes which Hitler installed over the territories he occupied, with the only difference that the Nazis did not perform ethnic cleansing over the territories which they illegally occupied.

UN-BLOODYBELIEVABLE. THIS HAS GOT TO BE THE MOST IGNORANT STATEMENT I'VE HAD THE MISFORTUNE TO READ ON THIS FORUM. Czechoslovakia, Poland, Belgium, Netherlands, Denmark, Norway, France, Italy, Yugoslavia, Albania, Greece, Bulgaria, Romania, Hungary, Ukraine, Soviet states ......

Yes mate. The Nazis killed many people. But they didn't ethnically cleanse a territory of an occupied territory from almost the entire native population, replacing them with Germans. Did they?

I believe some other fascists (Mussolini etc) recognized as legitimate the puppet regimes that Hitler installed in the occupied territories.

FRANKLY WHAT YOU BELIEVE PIRATIS IS A BLOODY MYSTERY

The Turks so far didn't find even one other country to recognize their crimes as legitimate.

So to conclude, there are various unrecognized states, which they are unrecognized for various very different reasons.

YOU DON'T SAY SHERLOCK

The reasons the "trnc" is not recognized have absolutely no relationship to the reasons why Taiwan is not recognized. Some states, like Kurdistan and Palestine, deserve to be recognized, while some other, which are a result of foreign invasions and crimes against humanity, such as the puppet regimes of Hitler and the "trnc", have absolutely no right to exist.

YOU CAN'T EVEN SEE THE IRONY OF WHAT YOU'VE WRITTEN HERE.

Do you really consider yourselves better than the Nazis? At least the Germans admitted and regretted for the genocides and the crimes they committed. On the other hand, not only you do not admit your crimes of the past (genocides against Armenians, Greeks and many others, oppression and mass killing of Kurds, illegal invasion and ethnic cleansing in Cyprus), but you continue trying to justify and legitimize your crimes against others.

[Expatkiwi]

Everything you say is irrelevant because the Republic of Cyprus is in the EU and the Turks are illegally possessing the property and territory of EU citizens who are now taking Turkey to court and establishing de jure the illegality and Human Rights violations of this occupation. This overrides all other considerations or comparisons to any other "states" ... Quite simply the "trnc" is so far down the line from any worthwhile comparisons with any other "breakaway regimes" that you are a fool for wasting your time trying to draw/synthesise any parallels. Not to mention the illegal colonisation process which minute by minute changes the demographics and foils your "permanent population" myth.

Oracle, no less a world leader than Vladimir Putin said that the Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus had a better claim to ligitimacy than Kosovo, and more than sixty countries now recognize Kosovo as a Sovereign state! Also, no less a person than GR posted an item in another forum stating that all peoples had an inalienable right to self-determination. So something is wrong somewhere...

[SKI-preo]

Expat Kiwi said: Oracle, no less a world leader than Vladimir Putin said that the Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus had a better claim to ligitimacy than Kosovo- He was being sarcastic Cousi-bro now go listen to "She a slice of heaven" and read a Foot rot flat comic!