Cyprus-Forum.com

[humanist]

religious persecution is what this means lol. who cares what someone believes any ways.

[Kikapu]

Kikapu

There is no point arguing with you as a partitionist. I can never expect for you to be reasonable, but tell us VP, where do you draw the line as to when anything can become law if it's not by a majority rule. Can any individual put a stop to a law being enacted, just because they do not like it, or do you seriously expect 100% approval from all citizens.?

There are about 400,000 Muslims in Switzerland and roughly 90% are non practicing Muslims. Whom ever are protesting this decision are mostly the Swiss liberals and not the majority of the Muslim population since they do not even visit the mosques themselves. I know a Turk within greater family circles here of my girlfriend who is upset because he is someone who prays 5 times a day and is about 70 years old, but majority of the last 2 generations who moved here very young and had families here themselves, they and their children do not fall into this group of protestors, if there are any.!

Classic response from someone who continously biased and is unable to accept that he is not 100% right. You are blowing things out of all propertion because laws normally are for the benefit of all the citizens but on key/sensative issues where one side is being persecuted or put at a disadvantage for ethnic origins or religion they should have the ability to say no hold this is not right.

You know full well that this decision is racist against muslims and thats why it was taken nationally rather than council level, you yourself confirmed this...if all religions are tolerated then places of worship should also be tolerated, the minaret is like the bell tower is used to call people to prayer, if you ban one then you should also ban the other as it would be discriminating against one religion.

Does it matter who attended the protest obvioulsy people felt strongly enough to register and objection to such a racist decision which is a prime example of what the majority can do to crush the minoirty if no safeguards are in place to stop them, if the Swiss are the most democratic god help us with GCs the most racist people in the EU.

Be honest for once and admit that this decision is not entirely correct and leaves a lot to be desired....

A TC/TURK is the same thing according to the “trnc”, are they not in the north.?? I'm talking about a non TC/TURK and according to Halil, non TC/TURK cannot become a police officer even as a "citizen" of the north. Are you calling Halil a liar.?? I'm not talking about migrants but full "citizens of the trnc". Can they apply for any jobs as well as government positions as a non TC/TURKS.???

What is the different between a TC/TURK and a non TC/TURK if they are both citizens of the TRNC...I think yu have misuderstood what Halil is trying to say but as far as I am aware everyone is treated equally if they are a TRNC citizen. There are plenty of examples in both the Government and the police force.

to be a policeman in TRNC ....

a) Kuzey Kıbrıs Türk Cumhuriyeti Türk Vatandası olmak.( Should be citizen of TRNC) and should be Turk

b) 18 yasını tamamlamıs fakat 30 yasını tamamlamamıs olmak.
between 18-30 years old
Üniversite mezunları için 35 yasını tamamlamamıs olmak.(University graduates up to 35.)
c) Mesleğin gerektirdiği iyi ahlak ve karaktere sahip olmak; kumarbazlık,
sarhosluk ve uyusturucu madde kullanımı gibi kötü alıskanlıkları
olmamak.(should have good character)
d) En az lise veya dengi bir okul mezunu olmak.(at least graduate from LYce or equal level)
(Diplomanın aslı veya Eğitim Bakanlığından tasdikli fotokopisi
ibraz edilmelidir)
e) Askerlik hizmetini yerine getirmis olmak.(completed military service)
f) Sıhhatli olmak ve bedeni bakımdan Polis görevlerine uygun olmak.(Healty , bodily to suit police Work)
g) Boy itibarıyle 1.70 cm'den kısa olmamak. Boy ölçüsünün cm olarak
son iki rakamı ile kilosu arasında 1.75 cm’den yukarı olanlarda 15
kg., 1.75 cm’den kısa olanlarda 10 kg.’dan fazla fark olmayacak.
not less than 1.70 .

h) Yapılacak sınavlarda basarılı olmak.(have to pass exams)
i) Karakterine yansıyan herhangi bir suçtan hapis cezasına çarptırılmamıs
olmak,veya affa uğramıs olsalar dahi rüsvet, hırsızlık, dolandırıcılık,
sahtekarlık, irtikap hileli iflas ırza geçme ve benzeri yüz kızartıcı
suçlardan dolayı hüküm giymemis olmak.
j) Bir disiplin suçundan dolayı daha önce kamu görevinden
uzaklastırılmamıs olmak.

he/she shouldn't have any court case from stealing , blackmaling , crooking , smuggle , etc...etc...

http://www.khk.kamunet.net/docs/polis_munhal_1.pdf

http://www.cyprus-forum.com/viewtopic.p ... sc&start=0

Be honest for once and admit that this decision is not entirely correct and leaves a lot to be desired....

It was a pointless vote because the local councils can already reject any permit to build anything they do not want and since only 4 of the 150 mosques have minarets. It also seems that the Muslims did not need them to be part of their place to pray. This is why I say it is a non issue. Was it wise to have such a vote when local councils can prevent such structures from being built, and the answer is NO. That's why I think this is more of a message to Muslim Nations who are not at all tolerant with the Christian Faith in their own countries, so the Swiss just wanted to balance the playing field a little bit, even though all religious groups can practice their religions as before. Nothing has changed. I also believe the Swiss were just being protective of the future of their nations culture and heritage as a whole and not be taken over by Islamic Radicals no matter how remote that may be. Once again, this decision can be reversed with another vote down the road as the case is with all Democracies. No one is being persecuted here and stop making a big deal about it, because it is not.

[bill cobbett]

religious persecution is what this means lol. who cares what someone believes any ways.

Absolutely mate. All religions are a loada pollocks, BUT some people, like VP I fear, will use the issues they raise in the real world, as in this minaret business, to divide people for their own partitionist ends.

[Viewpoint]

Kikapu

There is no point arguing with you as a partitionist. I can never expect for you to be reasonable, but tell us VP, where do you draw the line as to when anything can become law if it's not by a majority rule. Can any individual put a stop to a law being enacted, just because they do not like it, or do you seriously expect 100% approval from all citizens.?

There are about 400,000 Muslims in Switzerland and roughly 90% are non practicing Muslims. Whom ever are protesting this decision are mostly the Swiss liberals and not the majority of the Muslim population since they do not even visit the mosques themselves. I know a Turk within greater family circles here of my girlfriend who is upset because he is someone who prays 5 times a day and is about 70 years old, but majority of the last 2 generations who moved here very young and had families here themselves, they and their children do not fall into this group of protestors, if there are any.!

Classic response from someone who continously biased and is unable to accept that he is not 100% right. You are blowing things out of all propertion because laws normally are for the benefit of all the citizens but on key/sensative issues where one side is being persecuted or put at a disadvantage for ethnic origins or religion they should have the ability to say no hold this is not right.

You know full well that this decision is racist against muslims and thats why it was taken nationally rather than council level, you yourself confirmed this...if all religions are tolerated then places of worship should also be tolerated, the minaret is like the bell tower is used to call people to prayer, if you ban one then you should also ban the other as it would be discriminating against one religion.

Does it matter who attended the protest obvioulsy people felt strongly enough to register and objection to such a racist decision which is a prime example of what the majority can do to crush the minoirty if no safeguards are in place to stop them, if the Swiss are the most democratic god help us with GCs the most racist people in the EU.

Be honest for once and admit that this decision is not entirely correct and leaves a lot to be desired....

A TC/TURK is the same thing according to the “trnc”, are they not in the north.?? I'm talking about a non TC/TURK and according to Halil, non TC/TURK cannot become a police officer even as a "citizen" of the north. Are you calling Halil a liar.?? I'm not talking about migrants but full "citizens of the trnc". Can they apply for any jobs as well as government positions as a non TC/TURKS.???

What is the different between a TC/TURK and a non TC/TURK if they are both citizens of the TRNC...I think yu have misuderstood what Halil is trying to say but as far as I am aware everyone is treated equally if they are a TRNC citizen. There are plenty of examples in both the Government and the police force.

to be a policeman in TRNC ....

a) Kuzey Kıbrıs Türk Cumhuriyeti Türk Vatandası olmak.( Should be citizen of TRNC) and should be Turk

b) 18 yasını tamamlamıs fakat 30 yasını tamamlamamıs olmak.
between 18-30 years old
Üniversite mezunları için 35 yasını tamamlamamıs olmak.(University graduates up to 35.)
c) Mesleğin gerektirdiği iyi ahlak ve karaktere sahip olmak; kumarbazlık,
sarhosluk ve uyusturucu madde kullanımı gibi kötü alıskanlıkları
olmamak.(should have good character)
d) En az lise veya dengi bir okul mezunu olmak.(at least graduate from LYce or equal level)
(Diplomanın aslı veya Eğitim Bakanlığından tasdikli fotokopisi
ibraz edilmelidir)
e) Askerlik hizmetini yerine getirmis olmak.(completed military service)
f) Sıhhatli olmak ve bedeni bakımdan Polis görevlerine uygun olmak.(Healty , bodily to suit police Work)
g) Boy itibarıyle 1.70 cm'den kısa olmamak. Boy ölçüsünün cm olarak
son iki rakamı ile kilosu arasında 1.75 cm’den yukarı olanlarda 15
kg., 1.75 cm’den kısa olanlarda 10 kg.’dan fazla fark olmayacak.
not less than 1.70 .

h) Yapılacak sınavlarda basarılı olmak.(have to pass exams)
i) Karakterine yansıyan herhangi bir suçtan hapis cezasına çarptırılmamıs
olmak,veya affa uğramıs olsalar dahi rüsvet, hırsızlık, dolandırıcılık,
sahtekarlık, irtikap hileli iflas ırza geçme ve benzeri yüz kızartıcı
suçlardan dolayı hüküm giymemis olmak.
j) Bir disiplin suçundan dolayı daha önce kamu görevinden
uzaklastırılmamıs olmak.

he/she shouldn't have any court case from stealing , blackmaling , crooking , smuggle , etc...etc...

http://www.khk.kamunet.net/docs/polis_munhal_1.pdf

http://www.cyprus-forum.com/viewtopic.p ... sc&start=0

Be honest for once and admit that this decision is not entirely correct and leaves a lot to be desired....

It was a pointless vote because the local councils can already reject any permit to build anything they do not want and since only 4 of the 150 mosques have minarets. It also seems that the Muslims did not need them to be part of their place to pray. This is why I say it is a non issue. Was it wise to have such a vote when local councils can prevent such structures from being built, and the answer is NO. That's why I think this is more of a message to Muslim Nations who are not at all tolerant with the Christian Faith in their own countries, so the Swiss just wanted to balance the playing field a little bit, even though all religious groups can practice their religions as before. Nothing has changed. I also believe the Swiss were just being protective of the future of their nations culture and heritage as a whole and not be taken over by Islamic Radicals no matter how remote that may be. Once again, this decision can be reversed with another vote down the road as the case is with all Democracies. No one is being persecuted here and stop making a big deal about it, because it is not.

It clearly means a citizen of the TRNC, stop trying to find something which is not there.

Lets turn this Swiss issue around what if Turkey voted for all church towers to be removed or new ones would not be allowed bell towers, how would you respond would you have the same its not important let it go stance? Once again you have reconfirmed your biased and what little credibility you had has been yet again stamped upon....double standards thats what they call it.

[bill cobbett]

Referendums do play a very much bigger role in Swiss democratic system that than do elsewhere.

Elsewhere, including in a reunified CY, this would be a local planning issue, one where the local or district council would decide on the individual application for a minaret (or anything else).

Suspect they would not only look at the building but also on the mattr of noise. Some councils may look favourably on this noise issue by deciding that the calls to prayer would not impact on neighbours, other local councils may take a different view.

So in the real CY post-settlement world, this minaret business would, as it should, be a matter for the local level democratic planning system.

No big deal.

You can try and brush the issue under the carpet but it doesnt detract from the fact that this is a clear example of how the majority can use their numerical advantage to the detrement of the minority....next the GCs in a united Cyprus will vote to have minarets removed from all places of worship and all Atatürk statues from school playgrounds and then hide behind the "but the majority voted for it"....they did it in Switzerland why cant we...there are many manipulative games the GC can come up with,they are the masters at it after all.

Really VP ! Stop and do a little thinking before jumping out of the pram at every chance. You know as well as everyone else that on both sides of the ceasefire line, if you want to build immovable property you ask for permission from your local council.

A tissy local council in a tissy zone will probably look favourably on your minaret application whereas a greecy one may look on it less favourably. It remains a local planning matter which really you are trying to blow out of all proportion.

Now here's some help .... forget minarets, which are a non-issue, and think about dodgy statues of a certain past historical figure if you really want to be divisive and controversial. You may also wish to consider controversial flags and hillside graffitti when it comes to wider matters of what can and can't be erected.

You just stated thats a state council matter the GCs dont have to place one on their mountain we cannot do anything about according to you, the point here you have to get your pea brain around is that the majority can abuse their numerical advantage to the detrement of the minority...its the principle we are discussing.

Get back in the pram mate and leave out the rude personal insults.

... and consider that mosques and minerats have been a part of the CY villagescape for dozens of generations. They sit as comfortably in their settings as the Christian Churches of the other community. So repeat it's a non-issue, but a local council non-issue.

What doesn't sit comfortably, what has no long tradition or history, are the dodgy statues outside every public building, every school, every road junction etc etc. Now this is not a local council issue, and where these Stalinesque attrocities appear on public buildings or where they are situated elsewhere with an intention to create offence, to sow partitionist division and general disharmony, this is the real matter for CY-wide national debate.

[Viewpoint]

Referendums do play a very much bigger role in Swiss democratic system that than do elsewhere.

Elsewhere, including in a reunified CY, this would be a local planning issue, one where the local or district council would decide on the individual application for a minaret (or anything else).

Suspect they would not only look at the building but also on the mattr of noise. Some councils may look favourably on this noise issue by deciding that the calls to prayer would not impact on neighbours, other local councils may take a different view.

So in the real CY post-settlement world, this minaret business would, as it should, be a matter for the local level democratic planning system.

No big deal.

You can try and brush the issue under the carpet but it doesnt detract from the fact that this is a clear example of how the majority can use their numerical advantage to the detrement of the minority....next the GCs in a united Cyprus will vote to have minarets removed from all places of worship and all Atatürk statues from school playgrounds and then hide behind the "but the majority voted for it"....they did it in Switzerland why cant we...there are many manipulative games the GC can come up with,they are the masters at it after all.

Really VP ! Stop and do a little thinking before jumping out of the pram at every chance. You know as well as everyone else that on both sides of the ceasefire line, if you want to build immovable property you ask for permission from your local council.

A tissy local council in a tissy zone will probably look favourably on your minaret application whereas a greecy one may look on it less favourably. It remains a local planning matter which really you are trying to blow out of all proportion.

Now here's some help .... forget minarets, which are a non-issue, and think about dodgy statues of a certain past historical figure if you really want to be divisive and controversial. You may also wish to consider controversial flags and hillside graffitti when it comes to wider matters of what can and can't be erected.

You just stated thats a state council matter the GCs dont have to place one on their mountain we cannot do anything about according to you, the point here you have to get your pea brain around is that the majority can abuse their numerical advantage to the detrement of the minority...its the principle we are discussing.

Get back in the pram mate and leave out the rude personal insults.

... and consider that mosques and minerats have been a part of the CY villagescape for dozens of generations. They sit as comfortably in their settings as the Christian Churches of the other community. So repeat it's a non-issue, but a local council non-issue.

What doesn't sit comfortably, what has no long tradition or history, are the dodgy statues outside every public building, every school, every road junction etc etc. Now this is not a local council issue, and where these Stalinesque attrocities appear on public buildings or where they are situated elsewhere with an intention to create offence, to sow partitionist division and general disharmony, this is the real matter for CY-wide national debate.

You started the insults with your pram comment...so dont throw stones if you live in a glass house.

Does that mean the majority (GCs) can vote to have them removed from the north stat although the TCs dont want to get rid of them?

[Oracle]

... It clearly means a citizen of the TRNC ... .

You what!

You are NOT a citizen of anywhere ... at best ... a subject of the Turkish Fascist regime!

[Me Ed]

Referendums do play a very much bigger role in Swiss democratic system that than do elsewhere.

Elsewhere, including in a reunified CY, this would be a local planning issue, one where the local or district council would decide on the individual application for a minaret (or anything else).

Suspect they would not only look at the building but also on the mattr of noise. Some councils may look favourably on this noise issue by deciding that the calls to prayer would not impact on neighbours, other local councils may take a different view.

So in the real CY post-settlement world, this minaret business would, as it should, be a matter for the local level democratic planning system.

No big deal.

You can try and brush the issue under the carpet but it doesnt detract from the fact that this is a clear example of how the majority can use their numerical advantage to the detrement of the minority....next the GCs in a united Cyprus will vote to have minarets removed from all places of worship and all Atatürk statues from school playgrounds and then hide behind the "but the majority voted for it"....they did it in Switzerland why cant we...there are many manipulative games the GC can come up with,they are the masters at it after all.

VP, the building of an imposing structure such as a minaret in a secular European country is a clear example of a minority imposing it's beliefs to the detriment of the majority - the Swiss don't like them or want them.

Is this democracy at its best, if you dont like it get rid of it?? this muslim population is part of the Swiss mosiac just asthey have to tollerate churches the christians have to tolerate the Muslims minarets...this is what you call equality without discrimination.

As guests to Switzerland, these immigrants should respect the wishes of the indeginous population.

What if this minority wanted to implement some darker elements of Sharia law, like executing apostates, and the Swiss say no.

Are the Swiss being wacist or intolerant if it goes against their values?

I don't like the policies of Saudi Arabia, I simply won't live there.

[Viewpoint]

These are Swiss citizens, they have rights you cannot pick and choose what you feel they deserve...its called discrimination when you do.

[Oracle]

These are Swiss citizens, they have rights you cannot pick and choose what you feel they deserve...its called discrimination when you do.

Swiss citizens have a right to be heard ... Turkish subjects like you, illegally residing on stolen territories, have NO Right to be heard.... keep bleating in the wilderness little Turk!