Cyprus-Forum.com

[Oracle]

VP, I would be inclined to join this idea of banning the minarets and the call to prayer. After all this was practiced in a time when people did not have watches. There is no real need for them any more. Every time I am in Lurucina, and that damn Imam begins his singing so early in the morning and so loud, makes me jump out of my skin. Is that really necessary in today's environment.

Its a right that is being erased, thats the point...this can be the same in a united Cyprus if we do not have safeguards to allow us to say hold on this effects muslims therefore us more negatively then it does christians the GCs...this is not only racist but also very intollerant of ones beliefs.

Most civilised TCs don't want the minarets "saved" ... but you are in the minority amongst the TCs.

[YFred]

VP, I would be inclined to join this idea of banning the minarets and the call to prayer. After all this was practiced in a time when people did not have watches. There is no real need for them any more. Every time I am in Lurucina, and that damn Imam begins his singing so early in the morning and so loud, makes me jump out of my skin. Is that really necessary in today's environment.

Its a right that is being erased, thats the point...this can be the same in a united Cyprus if we do not have safeguards to allow us to say hold on this effects muslims therefore us more negatively then it does christians the GCs...this is not only racist but also very intollerant of ones beliefs.

Don't get me wrong, It not just ezan, I'd ban the church bells too. It's time it stopped. It's antisocial. If I went out there and shouted that loud, I'd be arrested.

[SKI-preo]

Viewpoint said "if you support such an act then why dont we take down all the crosses out side churches or remove the bells from church towers becuase they force religion on others, your arguement is lame and you know it," Turkish CYpriots have done this to about 550 Christian Churches. ANy way I will say it again I am against a Ban on Minarets- people should be allowed to believe what they like.This is why Viewpoint is a racist intolerant hypocrite. He supports an apartheid system where not only are Christian churches are desecrated - CHristian Cypriots are prevented from even existing. -I am not sure this topic belongs in the CYprob category either

[Get Real!]

Minarets: Ban Them, or Bomb Them?

“Good God. Why not synagogues? Or did a neighboring country try that already?”

http://www.antiwar.com/blog/2009/11/29/ ... -minarets/

[Piratis]

They should ban the construction of all new religious buildings, we have enough already.

VP, when the Muslims were going to Switzerland didn't they know that Switzerland was already, for 1000s of years, a Christian territory? If they wanted to live in a country full of mosques and minarets then why didn't they go to a Muslim country instead? Nobody forced them to go to a Christian country, right?

The Swiss people didn't have to accept them to their country, but the did. The least those immigrants can do is to show some respect to the culture of their host country. They are free to practice their own religion, but that doesn't mean they are free to build whatever they feel like or disturb other people.

[B25]

Another prime example of how the majority can abuse their advantage to brush aside peoples right to practice their religion....GR where are you now?

Here you go arsehole, and you think you have problems, F hypocrite:

Bishop prevented from leading Apostolas Andreas celebrations
By Sebastian Heller

TURKISH Cypriot police yesterday prevented the Bishop of Karpasia, Christoforos, from leading the church service at Apostolos Andreas yesterday.

Christoforos was due to lead the annual service to mark the saint’s feast day, but after the intervention of the Turkish Cypriot police the celebrations were instead led by the priest attached to the monastery.

Bishop Christoforos was allowed into the church to be present at the service and was permitted to perform a blessing at the end.

There was a heavy police presence in the area around the monastery and also directly outside it. According to state broadcasters, plain clothes ‘TRNC’ police were also present inside the church itself during the service, filming the attendees and the church service.

The services began at around 9:30am at the historic monastery located on the tip of the Karpas peninsula where the Apostle Andrew was said to have first set foot on the island.

The service was attended by Peter Millett, the British High Commissioner to Cyprus, and about 2,000 worshippers.

It is estimated that the name Andreas, along with the other similar names celebrated on this saint’s day, is the most common in Cyprus with more than 40,000 people celebrating their name day on November 30.

On Sunday thousands of people, at least fifty buses and hundreds of private cars created a dense throng around the historical monastery to attend the festivities being held that day and into the night.

From all over Cyprus people descended on the monastery bearing the large candles taken to such events and votive offerings. The celebrations were led by Father Zacharia Georgiou on Sunday and included vespers into the late evening.

http://www.cyprus-mail.com/news/

You have a nerve VP, you and your shitty regime. FO.

[denizaksulu]

Another prime example of how the majority can abuse their advantage to brush aside peoples right to practice their religion....GR where are you now?

Here you go arsehole, and you think you have problems, F hypocrite:

Bishop prevented from leading Apostolas Andreas celebrations
By Sebastian Heller

TURKISH Cypriot police yesterday prevented the Bishop of Karpasia, Christoforos, from leading the church service at Apostolos Andreas yesterday.

Christoforos was due to lead the annual service to mark the saint’s feast day, but after the intervention of the Turkish Cypriot police the celebrations were instead led by the priest attached to the monastery.

Bishop Christoforos was allowed into the church to be present at the service and was permitted to perform a blessing at the end.

There was a heavy police presence in the area around the monastery and also directly outside it. According to state broadcasters, plain clothes ‘TRNC’ police were also present inside the church itself during the service, filming the attendees and the church service.

The services began at around 9:30am at the historic monastery located on the tip of the Karpas peninsula where the Apostle Andrew was said to have first set foot on the island.

The service was attended by Peter Millett, the British High Commissioner to Cyprus, and about 2,000 worshippers.

It is estimated that the name Andreas, along with the other similar names celebrated on this saint’s day, is the most common in Cyprus with more than 40,000 people celebrating their name day on November 30.

On Sunday thousands of people, at least fifty buses and hundreds of private cars created a dense throng around the historical monastery to attend the festivities being held that day and into the night.

From all over Cyprus people descended on the monastery bearing the large candles taken to such events and votive offerings. The celebrations were led by Father Zacharia Georgiou on Sunday and included vespers into the late evening.

http://www.cyprus-mail.com/news/

You have a nerve VP, you and your shitty regime. FO.

[Kikapu]

Another prime example of how the majority can abuse their advantage to brush aside peoples right to practice their religion....GR where are you now?

Lets not exaggerate, VP, because no one is denied their right to practice their religion in Switzerland. There are about 150 mosques and other places to pray for the Muslims in this country, and as it was pointed out earlier, only 4 of these structures have a minaret with 2 more requested to be built. This initiative is not a ban on religion of the Muslim faith, or building more mosques. It is purely to prevent the building of minarets. There is already a ban on service given from minarets because the Swiss no not want one religion pushing their beliefs on others with a megaphone into the silent air to disturb the peace 5 times a day. The Muslims in this country will not be bothered, since 90% are not the worshiping kind, most being from Kosovo and from Turkey.

I really blame the Muslims world for what the Swiss did yesterday. The Muslim countries are not at all accommodating to the needs of the Christians from the west what so ever in their countries but cry foul when ever other countries want to protect their own cultures, so perhaps this can be a wake up call for them to be more open to other peoples religious beliefs and needs. To me the whole thing is a non issue, because

a) Muslims can very happily pray at a mosque without minarets

b) They have been for very long time since there are only 4 mosques with minarets, so where is the issue.

c) With only 4 minaret’s in the whole country, where is the issue with the Swiss, other than they do not want their landscape to become full of minaret’s in the future since the wheels of religion moves very slowly, so they are perhaps looking way into the future of hundreds of years and want to put a stop to it right now. Look how much "alive and well" Jesus Christ is doing 2,000+ years after his death.! If many more minarets were to be built, the next issue would be when the Imams would want to pray from the minaret’s 5 times a day, which would become a worse issue at later stage than putting stop to the minarets in the first place. Again, this is not a very big issue for the Muslims in this country, but only to the Muslim countries who want to make an issue of nothing, and given the fact they are the worse offenders of others religious rights, all they are doing is blowing hot air.

I have also told you that in a True Democracy, everything can be challenged, so be careful what you want for a settlement for the TCs, because if it's unreasonable, it will be challenged in the ballot box and the courts.

Kikapu again you show your biased and one sided views, if you support such an act then why dont we take down all the crosses out side churches or remove the bells from church towers becuase they force religion on others, your arguement is lame and you know it, for once do the right thing and admit they are wrong. This very clear example is how "democracy" can fuck over a minority, these are clear signs of how it would be in a united Cyprus where there are no safeguards when you also take into account that GCs are the most racists in the EU. The dangers are clear whether you choose to ignore them is your problem not ours, we will demands safeguards so that we can stop such decisions.

This is their country and culture after all and the church towers and bells have been here way before immigrants came, although there are also regulation on how often church bells can ring and when but once again you are changing the subject, because I did not say that the minarets will be used to force the Muslim faith on others by themselves, but rather the minarets may be used in the future by the Imams to broadcast their preaching all over the place that will be forcing their religion on others. Now don't make me repeat this again because you deliberately miss quoting me or you really do not comprehend what it is that you read at times. TCs are in Cyprus as Cypriots and their culture and religion must and will be protected along with the GCs and all Cypriot citizens, so put them in the constitution. You cannot have a blanket veto to stop Democratic means, just because VP does not like something. I gave you all the protections each state has and what it would take to amend the constitution with an active role of each state and it's citizens. So far you have refused such good measures. Perhaps Talat has a better one.? We will see soon.!

You are avoiding the real issue here.

Can the "majority" in your united Cyprus vote to ban imams from calling people to prayer? The Swiss one of the most democratic countires around you told us this have just voted 57% to stop the building of minerets.. is this an example of the dangers TCs will face in a united Cyprus, we cannot include everything in the constitution and changing times will call for new laws or laws which are manipulated to the determent of a portion of the population? or effect one more negatively that the other.

Should all countries have the right to ban other religious artifacts or buildings on the basis that they may be used to force religion on one another (this is Kikapus mindset)and because that religion wa sintroduced into the given country at a later date?

No VP, I'm not avoiding anything. It is you who is trying to mix Oranges and Lemons to try and win an argument, which you are not succeeding I may add.!

You can put anything you want into the constitution as long as all parties agree to it to be in there. This is the ONLY safeguard you will need in a Unified Cyprus. A simple "separation of State and Religion" provisions will be enough to protect everyone's religious rights. Besides, in the plan I gave you, the north will be TC majority as long as enough GC land is given back, so don't worry about "majority rule" in the north. In any case, Cyprus has Christians and Muslims as part of their culture, therefore these will be protected in the constitution unless most of north's and south's states majority as well as lower and the upper house all decide to ban the Imams from "disturbing the peace" 5 times a day at all hours of the day, so yes, the majority rule will apply if it's the desire of all the people and the states I've mentioned above, but even then, this can and will be challenged in the courts for it's validity even if ONE person does not agree with the majorities rulings, because not all "majority vote" are legal if they in fact violate anyone’s Democratic and Human Rights. I thought you have already understood these basic protections on Democratic and Human Rights for all citizens provided by the constitution.

As far as I know, minarets are not required to be part of the mosque in order for that mosque to be a prayer house for the Muslim Faith, that's why for me, the Swiss vote on this issue is really a non issue since no one is prevented from practicing their religion or building more mosques. It's not to say this issue will not be re voted at later date to allow the building of minarets in the future when the political landscape changes again. This is Democracy at work which can shift it's position, just like the Sand Dunes in the desert depending which direction the wind is blowing and how hard. There is already a ban on Imams preaching from minarets here which the Muslims here don't seem to mind or complain about, nor do large majority of Muslims seem to mind the banning of building more minarets, because to them, it is also a non issue. What you want to do is to step over the majorities wishes and prevent any decision taken by them even if ONE person disagrees with the majority if no ones Democratic or Human Rights are violated. Is this your idea of running a country, VP, because if it is, you really do not understand how countries function in the way they do. You need to keep your eyes on the ball and don't go off in unrelated matters to try and make political points, because it just make you look silly and a propagandist for partition.

While we are on the subject of "majority rule", perhaps you can explain to us why in the north ONLY a TURK can become a police officer or perhaps also to many other government posts and state jobs as a "citizen of the trnc" and not any other non TURK "citizen of the trnc". Are you complaining about the "trnc" violating other "trnc citizens" Democratic and Human Rights by any chance.? Why do you put up with this Racist policy that denies other non TURK "trnc citizens" equal opportunity to get the same jobs as the TURKS.?

[Viewpoint]

Another prime example of how the majority can abuse their advantage to brush aside peoples right to practice their religion....GR where are you now?

Here you go arsehole, and you think you have problems, F hypocrite:

Bishop prevented from leading Apostolas Andreas celebrations
By Sebastian Heller

TURKISH Cypriot police yesterday prevented the Bishop of Karpasia, Christoforos, from leading the church service at Apostolos Andreas yesterday.

Christoforos was due to lead the annual service to mark the saint’s feast day, but after the intervention of the Turkish Cypriot police the celebrations were instead led by the priest attached to the monastery.

Bishop Christoforos was allowed into the church to be present at the service and was permitted to perform a blessing at the end.

There was a heavy police presence in the area around the monastery and also directly outside it. According to state broadcasters, plain clothes ‘TRNC’ police were also present inside the church itself during the service, filming the attendees and the church service.

The services began at around 9:30am at the historic monastery located on the tip of the Karpas peninsula where the Apostle Andrew was said to have first set foot on the island.

The service was attended by Peter Millett, the British High Commissioner to Cyprus, and about 2,000 worshippers.

It is estimated that the name Andreas, along with the other similar names celebrated on this saint’s day, is the most common in Cyprus with more than 40,000 people celebrating their name day on November 30.

On Sunday thousands of people, at least fifty buses and hundreds of private cars created a dense throng around the historical monastery to attend the festivities being held that day and into the night.

From all over Cyprus people descended on the monastery bearing the large candles taken to such events and votive offerings. The celebrations were led by Father Zacharia Georgiou on Sunday and included vespers into the late evening.

http://www.cyprus-mail.com/news/

You have a nerve VP, you and your shitty regime. FO.

Why was the Bishop stopped, do we know? if there is no valid reason then this is a fiasco and I do not support the actions that were taken.

See the difference between TC and GC?? you support any action that is remotely a nagative to TCs or Muslims...you are the one with the shitty brain.

[bill cobbett]

Referendums do play a very much bigger role in Swiss democratic system that than do elsewhere.

Elsewhere, including in a reunified CY, this would be a local planning issue, one where the local or district council would decide on the individual application for a minaret (or anything else).

Suspect they would not only look at the building but also on the mattr of noise. Some councils may look favourably on this noise issue by deciding that the calls to prayer would not impact on neighbours, other local councils may take a different view.

So in the real CY post-settlement world, this minaret business would, as it should, be a matter for the local level democratic planning system.

No big deal.