Cyprus-Forum.com

[Viewpoint]

Ahhh forgot to add... as long as u support GC thesis no one will shout at u "bugger off foreigner, who r u to tell Cypriots what to do!"

Play the game how it suits... ridiculous!

You know I'm right, you just can't admit it!

C'mon, show some of that German Jewish courage! Fight for reunification - your children and grandchildren will thank you for it..........

I'd better fight for a better TRNC instead of fighting for reunification. In TRNC I have one element to fight against but in a reunited Cyprus there will be 2... so it's not wise to have 2 elements to fight against.

Ask Israelis to show some courage by abandoning Israel to Palestinians and go settle down Germany.

Excellent point İnsan...

[Oracle]

Ahhh forgot to add... as long as u support GC thesis no one will shout at u "bugger off foreigner, who r u to tell Cypriots what to do!"

Play the game how it suits... ridiculous!

You know I'm right, you just can't admit it!

C'mon, show some of that German Jewish courage! Fight for reunification - your children and grandchildren will thank you for it..........

I'd better fight for a better TRNC instead of fighting for reunification. In TRNC I have one element to fight against but in a reunited Cyprus there will be 2... so it's not wise to have 2 elements to fight against.

Ask Israelis to show some courage by abandoning Israel to Palestinians and go settle down Germany.

Excellent point İnsan...

Yes, good point insan ... by the same "logic" ... you need to abandon the stolen "trnc" and fuck off back to Turkey

[Talisker]

Talisker you have a long way to go in understanding TC psychology, its not the system we do not trust but those that apply it, GCs are the masters at manipulating things to a degree where they can turn you into second class citizens but veil it in camaflouge it all in the name of democracy namely majority rule being GC rule. What we want is a balance that will not allow you act as you wish to manipulate a system which is wide open to interpretation thats why BBF and political equality is vital, why do you not want to understand this structure do you have hidden agendas or aims that will manipulate the system to our disadvantage, if this was not the case you would accept this without hinderence as the safeguards and guarantees will over time become redundent and useless, you obviously want that free hand to do as you wish...this we will never allow you, we feel so strongly that even union with Turkey is a better option then capitulating to becoming just another minority in a GC state.

I have no hidden agendas - I just believe in the principles of freedom and democracy. My opinion is the TCs are the ones losing out here - you may have the land you've grabbed, but you have no freedom or international acceptance. You insist on being a minority. That is the issue. Why not integrate and become a Cypriot with all the rights, guarantees and protection afforded to you under that constitution, and those of the EU and the UN? Or do you prefer to enforce isolation and lost opportunity on future TC generations?

You'd prefer union with Turkey (as an insignificant minority - goodbye TCs!) to reunification within an EU state (as a significant minority with an opportunity in a democratic system to argue for your rights and values)???????? Really????????

[Talisker]

Ahhh forgot to add... as long as u support GC thesis no one will shout at u "bugger off foreigner, who r u to tell Cypriots what to do!"

Play the game how it suits... ridiculous!

You know I'm right, you just can't admit it!

C'mon, show some of that German Jewish courage! Fight for reunification - your children and grandchildren will thank you for it..........

I'd better fight for a better TRNC instead of fighting for reunification. In TRNC I have one element to fight against but in a reunited Cyprus there will be 2... so it's not wise to have 2 elements to fight against.

Ask Israelis to show some courage by abandoning Israel to Palestinians and go settle down Germany.

I think that you've forgotten Turkey's influence in TRNC - is this in Turkey's best interests or TCs best interests? Not the same thing you know - think about it..........Turkish influence is assisting TC 'genocide' - look at the dilution of your population, the fact settlers are not Cypriots and therefore 'different'. I think this is the hidden destructive influence you have overlooked and perhaps an 'element' you should factor into your equations. Are you now a Turk or are you a Cypriot?

[Viewpoint]

Talisker you have a long way to go in understanding TC psychology, its not the system we do not trust but those that apply it, GCs are the masters at manipulating things to a degree where they can turn you into second class citizens but veil it in camaflouge it all in the name of democracy namely majority rule being GC rule. What we want is a balance that will not allow you act as you wish to manipulate a system which is wide open to interpretation thats why BBF and political equality is vital, why do you not want to understand this structure do you have hidden agendas or aims that will manipulate the system to our disadvantage, if this was not the case you would accept this without hinderence as the safeguards and guarantees will over time become redundent and useless, you obviously want that free hand to do as you wish...this we will never allow you, we feel so strongly that even union with Turkey is a better option then capitulating to becoming just another minority in a GC state.

I have no hidden agendas - I just believe in the principles of freedom and democracy. My opinion is the TCs are the ones losing out here - you may have the land you've grabbed, but you have no freedom or international acceptance. You insist on being a minority. That is the issue. Why not integrate and become a Cypriot with all the rights, guarantees and protection afforded to you under that constitution, and those of the EU and the UN? Or do you prefer to enforce isolation and lost opportunity on future TC generations?

You'd prefer union with Turkey (as an insignificant minority - goodbye TCs!) to reunification within an EU state (as a significant minority with an opportunity in a democratic system to argue for your rights and values)???????? Really????????

Thank you for finally understanding how strongly we feel, your intial approach we can have today by moving south...yet what you see in reality is that TCs are not moving to this so called paradise in the EU because they do not feel they belong and think of it as a foreign country for GCs not TCs (please dont give us the GC crap about land grabbing)if TCs felt their lives would be better in the south they would up sticks and move tomorrow but no TC want to live as a minority in a GC state where they feel like foreigners.

Lastly the thought of becoming part of Turkey makes most TCs cringe but the alternative for us is far worse and we will never accept a minority role in a Gc state, we would rather return to our Turkish roots and become part of a 80million and fast developing Turkey.

Its not that difficult to understand either an equal partnership under a BBF of the current status quo with the future consequencies, the choice is yours.

[insan]

Talisker you have a long way to go in understanding TC psychology, its not the system we do not trust but those that apply it, GCs are the masters at manipulating things to a degree where they can turn you into second class citizens but veil it in camaflouge it all in the name of democracy namely majority rule being GC rule. What we want is a balance that will not allow you act as you wish to manipulate a system which is wide open to interpretation thats why BBF and political equality is vital, why do you not want to understand this structure do you have hidden agendas or aims that will manipulate the system to our disadvantage, if this was not the case you would accept this without hinderence as the safeguards and guarantees will over time become redundent and useless, you obviously want that free hand to do as you wish...this we will never allow you, we feel so strongly that even union with Turkey is a better option then capitulating to becoming just another minority in a GC state.

I have no hidden agendas - I just believe in the principles of freedom and democracy. My opinion is the TCs are the ones losing out here - you may have the land you've grabbed, but you have no freedom or international acceptance. You insist on being a minority. That is the issue. Why not integrate and become a Cypriot with all the rights, guarantees and protection afforded to you under that constitution, and those of the EU and the UN? Or do you prefer to enforce isolation and lost opportunity on future TC generations?

You'd prefer union with Turkey (as an insignificant minority - goodbye TCs!) to reunification within an EU state (as a significant minority with an opportunity in a democratic system to argue for your rights and values)???????? Really????????

How much land we "grabbed" as a consequence of GC-TC struggle that much land was "grabbed" by GCs... 1/3 of Cyprus population deserve 1/3 of Cyprus land.

Since 1974, leaders have been talking abt exchange/restitution and compensation of losses but not much has been done until now. This arise from incompetence of both sides leadership but since several years a properties board established by TRNC in order to exchane/restitute and compensate those who have land and property claims.

If this properties board had been established in 1975 when leaders decided that a new constitution needed on the basis of BBF; all porperty and land ownership claims would have been solved and greatly contributed to economic benefit of Cypriots/2 federal states or 2 states.

U need to study Cyprus history much much more, Talisker. It's not as simple as "accept the minority status and voila! ur problems were solved"

[Oracle]

... we would rather return to our Turkish roots and become part of a 80million and fast developing Turkey.

Finally! Just go back to Turkey and leave our Island to Democratic Europeans.

.... But you won't go, will you, because of your pure greed and expansionism. The stolen GC properties and land are what you really want.

More and more Europeans will see the contrast between right-minded GCs and what you represent as you hang on to stolen goods and maintain racist segregationist policies.

[insan]

Ahhh forgot to add... as long as u support GC thesis no one will shout at u "bugger off foreigner, who r u to tell Cypriots what to do!"

Play the game how it suits... ridiculous!

You know I'm right, you just can't admit it!

C'mon, show some of that German Jewish courage! Fight for reunification - your children and grandchildren will thank you for it..........

I'd better fight for a better TRNC instead of fighting for reunification. In TRNC I have one element to fight against but in a reunited Cyprus there will be 2... so it's not wise to have 2 elements to fight against.

Ask Israelis to show some courage by abandoning Israel to Palestinians and go settle down Germany.

I think that you've forgotten Turkey's influence in TRNC - is this in Turkey's best interests or TCs best interests? Not the same thing you know - think about it..........Turkish influence is assisting TC 'genocide' - look at the dilution of your population, the fact settlers are not Cypriots and therefore 'different'. I think this is the hidden destructive influence you have overlooked and perhaps an 'element' you should factor into your equations. Are you now a Turk or are you a Cypriot?

Talisker, it is true that Turkish governments in assistant of TC leadership(politicians and TC capital owners) have done many mistakes afterwards 1974. In the beginings noone cared abt settlers because they were serving the interests of TCs as an economic contributor.

When population increased and resources became less TCs naturally began to see the settlers as the source of the problem. Actually problem is being deprived from our biggest resource of income; tourism...

As I previously told u, TCs were 1/3 of Cyprus population in the begining of the British Rule.. had the emigration rate been at a normal level, today; instead of 264.000 TRNC citizens comprise of TCs, Cyprus born settlers and Turkey born settlers etc, there would have been almost pure TCs of 250.000+ in TRNC and we would have faced the same economic problems.

Turkey and "Turkish influence" on TRNC is not a direct problem for us... the problem is their wrong social policies.

Since 1974, mostly right wingers were in power in TRNC. Right wingers don't need any inflence from Turkey because they r open to all kinds of cooperation and cooperation with Turkey.

I too am not against full cooperation and full collaboration with Turkey in all fields but what I'm against is wrong policies in this cooperation.

Another thing I want to add is that every country, one way or another tries to balance it's population by either encouraging the increase of birth rates of it's natives or through migration. This is valid for TRNC too...

Our biggest problem is the wide spreaded injustices arising from nepotism... This is also a big problem in South but because their resources r not restricted with embargoes they still have a lot of income to distribute among it's people and sufficiently feed them.

I'm both a Turk and a Cypriot... Can't I be both of them which makes me a TC?

Why should I choose between being a Turk or a Cypriot?

When did TCs or GC become Cypriot? During the Ottoman rule? During the British Rule? During 3 years lasted RoC? During the intercommunal crisis? Afterwards 1974?

Never. They always were Greek Cypriots and we always were Turkish Cypriots. In fact, in minds of Greek Cypriots, we r "remnants of Ottoman Turks", "descendants of barbarian Atilla", etc..

[Talisker]

Thank you for finally understanding how strongly we feel, your intial approach we can have today by moving south...yet what you see in reality is that TCs are not moving to this so called paradise in the EU because they do not feel they belong and think of it as a foreign country for GCs not TCs (please dont give us the GC crap about land grabbing)if TCs felt their lives would be better in the south they would up sticks and move tomorrow but no TC want to live as a minority in a GC state where they feel like foreigners.

Lastly the thought of becoming part of Turkey makes most TCs cringe but the alternative for us is far worse and we will never accept a minority role in a Gc state, we would rather return to our Turkish roots and become part of a 80million and fast developing Turkey.

Its not that difficult to understand either an equal partnership under a BBF of the current status quo with the future consequencies, the choice is yours.

Actually I think the situation for TCs would be completely different in a reunited Cyprus than it is now when you attempt to explain why TCs haven't flocked to the south. Firstly, I suspect TCs are not exactly encouraged to make visits to the south, or to move there - what is the attitude of the TRNC 'authorities' to this? Making another analogy to Germany, families of escapees from communist East to democratic West Germany were victimised. Are similar presurres exerted in the north, or is there a perception amongst 'normal TCs' that if they go south there might be no return? Secondly, in a reunification scenario the eyes of the world will be on Cyprus, and you can be damned sure that any violence or intimidation of minority TCs will be jumped on. Cyprus would be very easy to isolate e.g. suspension from the EU, if TCs were victimised. Thirdly, once the communities mix and become one, the propaganda myths that have existed for decades can be broken down and dismissed. So the current status quo and a future reunification scenario are very different.

By the way - the choice is not 'mine' - I am British, not GC. I only want to debate the issues to understand CyProb.

[Talisker]

U need to study Cyprus history much much more, Talisker. It's not as simple as "accept the minority status and voila! ur problems were solved"

Simple democratic principles would be a very good place to start.