Cyprus-Forum.com

[Oracle]

Any more bash patriots, out there, to plough into Bananiot?

[Piratis]

Birkibrisli, you might like to know that we had a debate in Parliament that lasted over 3 three days on the state budget. Naturally, the Cyprob was at the epicentre of the debate.

All the MP's that are directly or indirectly connected to the rejectionist front, talked against the current round of negotiations and it was obvious that their concern is in case the negotiations are fruitful. They support the utopic view of one person one vote and of course they reject, like always, federation. Most vociferous in favour of this were extreme right wingers of DISI and DIKO parties. Among them was Sampson's son and a certain Themistocleous geezer from Limassol.

These people talk about human rights and democracy and conveniently forget that the past cannot be deleted when shaping a solution for the Cyprob. All international organisations realise this and tell us every year that the only solution that can be agreed upon is BBF.

Yet, these people, and our friends in this forum, suggest that we are quite capable of striving for a better solution. Even if all Cypriots agree (TC's and GC's) for the ideal solution, it could not happen because we are not alone in this world. It may be cruel but here you have it. Once powers like Turkey, America, England etc, became key players in this issue, they will have a say, probably a huge say. This is not something which identifies Cyprus only. It is the same all over the world. Political "laws" are universal and cannot be ignored.

Having recognised the above, I am saying that the best we can do is to appeal to these players jointly and try to get the best out of them. After all, these are civilised countries (yes, even Turkey and it will get better with time, I have no doubt, especially within the EU) which can lend a helping hand for the benefit of everybody concerned. We will not get everything our way and the TC's will not get everything their way. This is a compromise we need to make and it will be a courageous one too. Saying no all the time brings us one step closer to destruction every time.

Now, I will sit back and "absorb" the abuse from the bash patriots who wage their struggle from the comfort of their armchair, as always.

Bananiot, you keep calling various names anybody who disagrees with your viewpoint, which happens to be the vast majority of the Cypriot people, but when we reply in kind you cry about "abuse".

I will not reply to you in kind now, not because I care about you, but because I don't want to upset Bir. Although Bir seems to have some personal issue against me, my view about him has not changed.

Your defeatist view that we should just bent over and let those Imperialists impose whatever they want on our island is ridiculous. They have already managed to create enough problems to us already, why should we allow them to create more under the name of "solution"?

We showed our willingness to make a lot of compromises but there is a limit. When you cross that limit then the result becomes something worst than the problem you were trying to solve in the first place. If you had a mind of your own to think about things, instead of blindly accepting everything that comes from the AngloAmericans without even processing it in your own mind, then you would be able to understand this very obvious thing.

[Get Real!]

Now, I will sit back and "absorb" the abuse from the bash patriots who wage their struggle from the comfort of their armchair, as always.

Whereas, you wage it from the comfort of your sofa…

Just goes to show how ignorant you are. Bananiot and Halil are performing the fight of the kleftiko and the bammia. They are fighting daily in the ditches of the islands souvlitjidika, and kebab houses. Injuring themselves constantly in the unstoppable quest for baklava and the bithkiavli.

If we eat enough together then there must be peace. Who cares what a new constitution would do to the other 3hrs a day we're awake and not eating.

Hmm… a well constructed analysis! I never put so much technical thought into it...

[BirKibrisli]

I, Bir, appreciate that GCs lived their lives in fear and as second category people under foreign empires for centuries...I understand that they had every right to ask for their human and democratic rights and their demand to unite Cyprus with Greece was a legitimate one, even thought we didn't agree with it. We were mislead by foreign Imperialists who made us fear of Enosis and promised to us privileges on the expense of all other Cypriots, and drove us to attack our compatriots and start the inter-communal conflict. In 1960 the Imperialists imposed on Cyprus a constitution which offered to us some of the privileges previously offered. When in 1963 Makarios proposed to remove some of those privileges we flat out refused, abandoned the government and the conflict re-started. We didn't get as much help from Turkey as we expected, and being the smaller and weaker group we suffered more during this conflict. The GCs were left alone to take control of the whole government and use it for their own benefit and we were pushed on the corner. The coup happened in 1974 and Turkey found the excuse they were waiting for to put into action their partition plan. 1000s were killed and 100s of thousands ethnically cleansed. As it was the case since the 50s, our leadership continued to be the puppet of Turkey and the "average TC" was convinced that a form of partition based on ethnic cleansing and human rights violations is the only possible "solution", something which I recognize as wrong. I accept that more human rights violations can not be part of any real solution but will only help to maintain the antagonism and hate between the two sides. I do not support the collective punishment of whole communities based on one sided interpretations of the past. I believe that the least I can do to show empathy and compassion to people is to recognize their human rights and accept them as my equal compatriots without any kind of racist discrimination. From now on, I Bir, will support what is just and right for Cyprus and the Cypriot people as I did before, and I will stop supporting the plans of Imperialists that aim to legalize the division and the human rights violations against the people of my country."

I have no problem signing off on this Piratis..I agree with every word you wrote above...
But you couldn't bring yourself to do the same for me...
One sided or heavily qualified empathy and compassion will not help us find a solution....

So which is the truth Bir? What you wrote or what you agreed with me later? Because both things can not be true at the same time. While there is some overlap between the two, certain things are contradictory and you can not support both at the same time.

I didn't ask you for empathy or compassion. I asked you for the truth.

Here lies the dilemma,Piratis...When it comes to civil war,and inter-ethnic conflict,there is not one single truth...Each side have their own truth...You have failed to grasp the significance of accepting the other sides truth,and make the necessary adjustment in your attitude...There are no absolutes here...You can't say,as i have heard you say many times,more GCs have died in this conflict hence all the blame belongs to the TCs...Or you have only suffered for so many years,but we have been suffering for much longer,hence you have no right to demand empathy or compassion...Or Enosis was our legitimate demand,you have been tricked into opposing it,hence you are responsible solely for the results...What you need to do is to stop these distorted value judgements,and accept that both sides are equally responsible for the mess we are in ...Once you truly appreciate that ENOSIS meant a death sentence for the TCs,you cannot keep on blaming them for their actions...Desperate people do desperate things...If people think they are drownig they will grasp onto anything, even a snake...When people are in physical survival mode they don't give a damn about democracy or human rights of their "enemy"...They do what must be done to save their lives...


What you need to do now is go back and read the words that I wrote for you,and find the will and the courage to post it...Even though it is not your "truth",by signing it you are signalling that you are willing to listen,to understand,and to compromise,to change your inflexible attitude towards a solution...The best the TCs will agree to now,or will be allow to agree to by the other interested parties is a BBF,which safeguards the physical and political survival of the minority TCs...Down the track,when people learn to trust each other,other solutions might become possible....

To be honest,I do not really know what the "truth" is in this matter...The waters have been muddied for a long time...Each historical fact or event have multiple interpretations which are often contradictory,as you say...But that is not imoprtant...What is imortant is the willingness to respect the other sides "truth",and show compassion for their situation...You and some others are not able to do this...It is simply a mountain too high to climb....So you are getting the same treatment from the TCs...Viewpoint is doing exactly what you are doing...He is putting his sides "truths" without a second thought about yours...I have been trying to point out that you are both making a big mistake...This is no way to find a solution...I appreciate the fact that you have acknowledged your belief that the TCs are the biggest losers in this tragedy,closely followed by the GCs....Perhaps the time has come to stop talking about who lost more or less,and accept the fact that both communities,all Cypriots lost big time in this bloody conflict...That we must work together,helping each other,to undo all the emotional damage of the past events,and find a compromise solution to get us over the line for now...

[BirKibrisli]

Birkibrisli, you might like to know that we had a debate in Parliament that lasted over 3 three days on the state budget. Naturally, the Cyprob was at the epicentre of the debate.

All the MP's that are directly or indirectly connected to the rejectionist front, talked against the current round of negotiations and it was obvious that their concern is in case the negotiations are fruitful. They support the utopic view of one person one vote and of course they reject, like always, federation. Most vociferous in favour of this were extreme right wingers of DISI and DIKO parties. Among them was Sampson's son and a certain Themistocleous geezer from Limassol.

These people talk about human rights and democracy and conveniently forget that the past cannot be deleted when shaping a solution for the Cyprob. All international organisations realise this and tell us every year that the only solution that can be agreed upon is BBF.

Yet, these people, and our friends in this forum, suggest that we are quite capable of striving for a better solution. Even if all Cypriots agree (TC's and GC's) for the ideal solution, it could not happen because we are not alone in this world. It may be cruel but here you have it. Once powers like Turkey, America, England etc, became key players in this issue, they will have a say, probably a huge say. This is not something which identifies Cyprus only. It is the same all over the world. Political "laws" are universal and cannot be ignored.

Having recognised the above, I am saying that the best we can do is to appeal to these players jointly and try to get the best out of them. After all, these are civilised countries (yes, even Turkey and it will get better with time, I have no doubt, especially within the EU) which can lend a helping hand for the benefit of everybody concerned. We will not get everything our way and the TC's will not get everything their way. This is a compromise we need to make and it will be a courageous one too. Saying no all the time brings us one step closer to destruction every time.

Now, I will sit back and "absorb" the abuse from the bash patriots who wage their struggle from the comfort of their armchair, as always.

You are, once more, the voice of reason and practical wisdom...I salute you,Bananiot...

[DT.]

Birkibrisli, you might like to know that we had a debate in Parliament that lasted over 3 three days on the state budget. Naturally, the Cyprob was at the epicentre of the debate.

All the MP's that are directly or indirectly connected to the rejectionist front, talked against the current round of negotiations and it was obvious that their concern is in case the negotiations are fruitful. They support the utopic view of one person one vote and of course they reject, like always, federation. Most vociferous in favour of this were extreme right wingers of DISI and DIKO parties. Among them was Sampson's son and a certain Themistocleous geezer from Limassol.

These people talk about human rights and democracy and conveniently forget that the past cannot be deleted when shaping a solution for the Cyprob. All international organisations realise this and tell us every year that the only solution that can be agreed upon is BBF.

Yet, these people, and our friends in this forum, suggest that we are quite capable of striving for a better solution. Even if all Cypriots agree (TC's and GC's) for the ideal solution, it could not happen because we are not alone in this world. It may be cruel but here you have it. Once powers like Turkey, America, England etc, became key players in this issue, they will have a say, probably a huge say. This is not something which identifies Cyprus only. It is the same all over the world. Political "laws" are universal and cannot be ignored.

Having recognised the above, I am saying that the best we can do is to appeal to these players jointly and try to get the best out of them. After all, these are civilised countries (yes, even Turkey and it will get better with time, I have no doubt, especially within the EU) which can lend a helping hand for the benefit of everybody concerned. We will not get everything our way and the TC's will not get everything their way. This is a compromise we need to make and it will be a courageous one too. Saying no all the time brings us one step closer to destruction every time.

Now, I will sit back and "absorb" the abuse from the bash patriots who wage their struggle from the comfort of their armchair, as always.

You are, once more, the voice of reason and practical wisdom...I salute you,Bananiot...

There you go! Now we can eat

[Paphitis]

Birkibrisli, you might like to know that we had a debate in Parliament that lasted over 3 three days on the state budget. Naturally, the Cyprob was at the epicentre of the debate.

All the MP's that are directly or indirectly connected to the rejectionist front, talked against the current round of negotiations and it was obvious that their concern is in case the negotiations are fruitful. They support the utopic view of one person one vote and of course they reject, like always, federation. Most vociferous in favour of this were extreme right wingers of DISI and DIKO parties. Among them was Sampson's son and a certain Themistocleous geezer from Limassol.

These people talk about human rights and democracy and conveniently forget that the past cannot be deleted when shaping a solution for the Cyprob. All international organisations realise this and tell us every year that the only solution that can be agreed upon is BBF.

Yet, these people, and our friends in this forum, suggest that we are quite capable of striving for a better solution. Even if all Cypriots agree (TC's and GC's) for the ideal solution, it could not happen because we are not alone in this world. It may be cruel but here you have it. Once powers like Turkey, America, England etc, became key players in this issue, they will have a say, probably a huge say. This is not something which identifies Cyprus only. It is the same all over the world. Political "laws" are universal and cannot be ignored.

Having recognised the above, I am saying that the best we can do is to appeal to these players jointly and try to get the best out of them. After all, these are civilised countries (yes, even Turkey and it will get better with time, I have no doubt, especially within the EU) which can lend a helping hand for the benefit of everybody concerned. We will not get everything our way and the TC's will not get everything their way. This is a compromise we need to make and it will be a courageous one too. Saying no all the time brings us one step closer to destruction every time.

Now, I will sit back and "absorb" the abuse from the bash patriots who wage their struggle from the comfort of their armchair, as always.

You are, once more, the voice of reason and practical wisdom...I salute you,Bananiot...

There you go! Now we can eat

What's on the menu? Kebabs and Baklava!

[Bananiot]

Simply you are jealous DT. Come along tomorrow? The mahallepi at Buyuk Han is incredible. Halil will be more than pleased to see you. Bring GR along too. Seriously.

[Get Real!]

You are, once more, the voice of reason and practical wisdom...I salute you,Bananiot...

And I salute you both...

[DT.]

Simply you are jealous DT. Come along tomorrow? The mahallepi at Buyuk Han is incredible. Halil will be more than pleased to see you. Bring GR along too. Seriously.

Why not switch it around a little Bananiot. There's plenty of good mahalepi in the govt controlled areas.