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TCs ain't no German Jews!

How can we solve it? (keep it civilized)

Postby insan » Wed Dec 16, 2009 11:17 pm

Piratis wrote:
Tim Drayton wrote:The Fractures of a Struggle:
Remembering and Forgetting Erenköy

Rebecca Bryant
George Mason University

http://www.prio.no/upload/Rebecca%20Bryant.doc


Not a single mention of the word "napalm". Presenting the TMT as heroes. She even talks about how they were bringing weapons from Turkey to Cyprus in the 50s with no mention about how those weapons were used: To attack innocent Greek Cypriots and start the inter-communal conflict.

I read 3 pages of this document (and made a search for the word "napalm") and it was more than enough to understand what it was all about.

In many occasions in this forum I exposed PRIO as a pro-Turkish organization. This document is yet another confirmation.


From a highly reliable source, the events of Dillirga and the story of the napalm bombs thrown by Turkish war jets...

The Greeks who believed to get aid from some countries resumed their attack on a much bigger scale on 9th August.Fighting started in more fierce proportions. The Greeks still continued to believe thet they would force the Turks into the sea.Once more the sky was covered with the thunder of the Turkish planes. This time 64 planes joined the misssion and poured death on the Greeks.The Greek artillery was silenced by napalm bombs.

A Greek war ship attacking the Turkish positions from the sea, was also sunk.

The foreign reporters and UN soldiers who were there could not conceal their appreciation on the skill shown by the Turkish planes. The planes gave direct hits to all position destroying them completely.
The air attacks greatly reduced the Greek forces.The Greek attack was completely stopped.The Greeks conceded their failure. Makarios said he was ready to accept all Turkish conditions.

Wth the wipe out of the Greek forces placed around Dillirga, the fighing came to en end.”




It seems the target was not the civilians and there's no report that civilians were targeted..

EVALUATION

Both sides in this conflict try to induce the impression of their innocence stressing the pressure on them. As always the guilty side is the other one. Turkish Cypriots put forward Greek Cypriot attacks on Turkish Cypriots as the start of clashes while Greek Cypriots indicate Turkish division exploits of the island. Both communities endeavour to conceal the facts from their communities showing the other side as culprits in this affair. My reasearch did not dig out much information from textbooks followed in Greek schools. The Turkish Cypriots on the other hand exaggerated the facts to stress their justification in the developments.There was no hint whatsoever to alleviate the pain of the other side. Young students with only a few weeks of training joined the fighting in Dillirga. Some of them died in the fightings.During the Turkish air bombardment a lot of Greeks died as well.Neither Dr. Vehbi Zeki, nor the Greek writers dwelt on these facts.On the contrary the Greek Cypriots still argue that a fully equipped army invaded Dillirga. Both Cypriot Turks and Cypriot Greeks who lived for centuries in that region were forced to evacuate their houses and find safer refuge somewhere else. Hundreds of civilians were either killed or wounded during the Dillirga fighting. Both Greek and Turkish Cypriot press failed in their handling of the developments. The criticism and evaluation of the happenings was carried out by chauvunistic writers. Those who initiated the fightings were not criticisized and sufferings of both communities were side stepped.
If the events and developments that took place in Dillirga are rightly reflected and recorded in textbooks indicating mishaps I tried to stress above, the forthcoming generations will have a better chance to understand all that happened . They can thus try to avoid the recurrence of similar incidence in the future.


http://www.yenikibris.org/kitap/ulus/dillirga.htm
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Postby BirKibrisli » Wed Dec 16, 2009 11:20 pm

Piratis wrote:Unlike you, I always answer when I am asked a direct question.

The question is: Do you think that the TCs should again have gains on our expense, and even more than those that they had with the 1960 agreements? If yes, why?

Instead of answering the question you are trying to give an excuse to everything the Turks and TCs did, while you aparently do not show the same kind of understanding to the actions of GCs.

You can't ask from me to acknowledge the suffering of TCs and the crimes committed against them (which I did) and then at the same time try to excuse all crimes of the TCs and Turkey against us presenting them as the "innocent children" who were misled and have no responsibility for their actions.


I can and I will keep asking you to acknowledge the pain and suffering of the TCs,in the past and at the present...Till you stop playing lipservice to it,and till it penetrates your heart...
Now,Piratis,tell me, What was happening to the TCs between 1963-74???Why were the Piratisess of that period not concerned about the democratic and human rights of the TCs who were forced to desert their villages in fear of their lives???Why were the Makarios government happy to sit back and see tens of thousands of them,myself included, leave their beloved island,their homeland,their place of birth because they saw no future in Cyprus for themselves and their children???

Try answering this quesion without putting the blame back on the TCs,and we might get somewhere...else I will keep singing your song from here till the end of time,till the balance of power changes and you forget your highly evolved democratic and human rights principles and come to kill me in the middle of the night...If I am stupid enough to return to Cyprus to live with the likes of you... :evil:
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Postby Expatkiwi » Wed Dec 16, 2009 11:26 pm

THis story of the heroes of Erenkoy will be remembered as one of the great events of 20th Century warfare history.
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Postby BirKibrisli » Wed Dec 16, 2009 11:36 pm

Tim Drayton wrote:
BirKibrisli wrote:
Piratis wrote:
BirKibrisli wrote:
B25 wrote:
Bananiot wrote:Of course they are all Turks B25. In the eyes of the nationalists all dogs belong to the same breed. However, is it just peculiar (to say the least) that the little fascist is lecturing Birkibrisli?


I am neither little, nor a fascist, nor giving lectures, one of you were lying.

He claims TCs you claim Turks, not that can give ahoot, but get your lies straight before you spread them.

To me Birk, is just another TC trying to get things his way, but don't worry your little head, we know where you stand.


You missed Bananiot's point all together,B25..He was implying that to the GCs at the time,lining up to witness the massacre,those to be slaughtered were just "Turks",including my cousins,the 3 TC students.. :roll:


And I guess those 500 TCs landed there to have a picnic and not to kill people?


Piratis,they were student in their early 20s studying in Turkey...when the 63 troubles began they thought they should get back to help their community survive what they thought was going to be an all out attack to wipe off the TCs...Turkish army gave them all a 2 week course in using firearms,and dumped them on this little enclave which was surrounded by the GC regulars and irregular (i have no midea who they were) in no time...They had no idea what they were doing...But soon found out they were mistakenly believed to be the avantgard of a Turkish military operation...Some were killed in the skirmishes,and all were in grave danger of starvation for the whole duration...This was the most bizarre chapter of the 63-74 period...People should know what really happened,dont you think???Instead of thinking that Turkey just wanted some target practice...But I suspect nothing will dent the armour of hatred and bitterness in certain people here... :(


To change tack a little, are there any plausible theories as to what Turkey's motives were in permitting/emcouraging this rag-tag group of students to stage such a landing? In strict military and strategic terms this was surely madness. It was a case of sending lambs to their slaughter.

Incidentally, does anybody know if the following eyewitness account of these events is worth reading?

Image


It is simple,Tim,these students were protesting in the streets of Ankara,Istanbul,and Izmir demanding Turkey did something to stop what they believed to be the imminent wholesale massacre of the TC community in Cyprus. They demanded that if Turkey was not prepared to take action they should be allowed to go to Cyprus to help defend their families...Their wish was granted...This act of desparation alone should be enough to wake the likes of Piratis up to the fear and trepidation the whole TC community were suffering from at the time...But they choose to look at them as soldiers and foreign invaders,to justify the effort they put in to wipe them out,before the bombs started to fall...

I haven't heard of that book,but if it is an eyewitness account,it must be worth reading...Unless you are Piratis who will no doubt dismiss it as propaganda...Nothing which might take anything away from their side's arguments must be allowed to come to light...They have written Cyprus history to their liking,and no amount of facts or reality will be allowed to interfere...And they talk about democracy and human rights... :roll:
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Postby BirKibrisli » Thu Dec 17, 2009 12:06 am

Oracle wrote:
BirKibrisli wrote:..I said 500 misguided and foolish TC students managed to land in Kokkina area,hoping to make their way to their villages or towns,to help fight of what they thought was an imminent GC push to wipe of all the TCs on the island[/size]...They truly believed that,that is why they risked their lives to get there...They were under a long seige,and the final assault wasonly hours away...Some GC civilians had taken up positions on the hill to watch the salaughter of the TCs in that enclave...


What a romantic spin you put on this tale, to glamorise "TC students".
They were soldiers fighting for Turkish interests. :roll:

And what evil onlookers to a slaughter you do portray the GCs as being. :roll: The Kokkina area is remote and has always been poorly populated ... so how long would it take for any number of GC civilians to group together after hearing there was going to be a "slaughter"?
Most GC civilians were afraid of TCs at that time, and demoralised by Turkish bombings to go anywhere near a battle scene.


They were lining up BEFORE the bombs started to fall,dear lady...I heard about this at the time in Cyprus...Bananiot has confirmed it...There was nothing romantic about these students...They were desperate people doing desperate things...They should never have been allowed to...And they shouldnt have had to...
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Postby BirKibrisli » Thu Dec 17, 2009 12:20 am

Piratis wrote:
To change tack a little, are there any plausible theories as to what Turkey's motives were in permitting/emcouraging this rag-tag group of students to stage such a landing? In strict military and strategic terms this was surely madness. It was a case of sending lambs to their slaughter.


This was exactly my question Tim. This is why I asked if they went there for a picnic.

These people were 500 armed men, and they were obviously armed and brought to Cyprus by Turkey.

If they were indeed so helpless as Bir says, then why were they send to Cyprus by Turkey? Are the Turkish Generals idiots?

Bir asked if Turkey woke up one day and decided it was a nice day to drop some napalm on Cyprus. Apparently dropping napalm on Cyprus was not something decided that day, but a plan conceived much earlier. Bringing those 500 people in Cyprus so Turkey could come later and "save" them by bombing innocent people with napalm was apparently part of the plan.

If anybody has some more logical explanation then I would like to hear it.


You see Tim??? Piratis always finds some Turkish consiracy in everything...It doesnt suit him to think that perhaps the Turkish government simply wanted them off the streets for political reasons...The Prime Minister at the time, Ismet Inonu was the man who had signed Cyprus away to the British in 1923...Perhaps he didnt want to be reminded of that ,day after day by street protests......He was a proud,stubborn and rather difficult individual...
He obviously stuffed up big time with the students,and had to make ammends...He couldnt sit back and let them all be slaughtered like lambs...Such things would never cross Piratis's mind of course...Then he might have to account for the actions of the GC military at the time...Better to blame everything on the Turks and the TC...And have the hide to expect these people to come running into his arms,in a democratic state with human rights...It would be laughable if not so sad...
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Postby Oracle » Thu Dec 17, 2009 12:25 am

insan wrote:It seems the target was not the civilians and there's no report that civilians were targeted..


I know for a fact Turkish jets targeted us for weeks! There are many confirmations of GC civilian casualties from Bombs, shells and Napalm.

Your blatant revisionist rantings from Turkish sources, to secure some "national pride" in your law-forsaken people, is well known by modern historians and you will NOT be allowed to re-write history to suit your "creationist" propaganda!
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Postby Oracle » Thu Dec 17, 2009 12:30 am

BirKibrisli wrote:
Oracle wrote:
BirKibrisli wrote:..I said 500 misguided and foolish TC students managed to land in Kokkina area,hoping to make their way to their villages or towns,to help fight of what they thought was an imminent GC push to wipe of all the TCs on the island[/size]...They truly believed that,that is why they risked their lives to get there...They were under a long seige,and the final assault wasonly hours away...Some GC civilians had taken up positions on the hill to watch the salaughter of the TCs in that enclave...


What a romantic spin you put on this tale, to glamorise "TC students".
They were soldiers fighting for Turkish interests. :roll:

And what evil onlookers to a slaughter you do portray the GCs as being. :roll: The Kokkina area is remote and has always been poorly populated ... so how long would it take for any number of GC civilians to group together after hearing there was going to be a "slaughter"?
Most GC civilians were afraid of TCs at that time, and demoralised by Turkish bombings to go anywhere near a battle scene.


They were lining up BEFORE the bombs started to fall,dear lady...I heard about this at the time in Cyprus...Bananiot has confirmed it...There was nothing romantic about these students...They were desperate people doing desperate things...They should never have been allowed to...And they shouldnt have had to...


Yes it was all very well planned in advance (since the 50's) and executed. Not students, but soldiers! So don't pretend they were heroes, but invaders, TCs or no TCs, they were invaders trying to destroy the Constitution and the Cypriot government to enable Turkey to fulfil her partitionist plans.

We have the outcome today!
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Postby Piratis » Thu Dec 17, 2009 12:30 am

BirKibrisli wrote:
Piratis wrote:Unlike you, I always answer when I am asked a direct question.

The question is: Do you think that the TCs should again have gains on our expense, and even more than those that they had with the 1960 agreements? If yes, why?

Instead of answering the question you are trying to give an excuse to everything the Turks and TCs did, while you aparently do not show the same kind of understanding to the actions of GCs.

You can't ask from me to acknowledge the suffering of TCs and the crimes committed against them (which I did) and then at the same time try to excuse all crimes of the TCs and Turkey against us presenting them as the "innocent children" who were misled and have no responsibility for their actions.


I can and I will keep asking you to acknowledge the pain and suffering of the TCs,in the past and at the present...Till you stop playing lipservice to it,and till it penetrates your heart...
Now,Piratis,tell me, What was happening to the TCs between 1963-74???Why were the Piratisess of that period not concerned about the democratic and human rights of the TCs who were forced to desert their villages in fear of their lives???Why were the Makarios government happy to sit back and see tens of thousands of them,myself included, leave their beloved island,their homeland,their place of birth because they saw no future in Cyprus for themselves and their children???

Try answering this quesion without putting the blame back on the TCs,and we might get somewhere...else I will keep singing your song from here till the end of time,till the balance of power changes and you forget your highly evolved democratic and human rights principles and come to kill me in the middle of the night...If I am stupid enough to return to Cyprus to live with the likes of you... :evil:


Makarios did make proposals for reforms that would make the imposed constitution a more democratic one but Turkey and TCs turned them down at once and choose to fight to keep their unfair privileges on our expense.

Democracy and human rights is what we were demanding for centuries from the Ottoman and the British Imperialists, so we could peacefully and democratically decide the destiny of our own island, but our request was always refused since these Imperialists wanted to rule our island instead of allowing us to do so.

When did you accept democracy and human rights in Cyprus? You never accepted democracy, you never accepted human rights for all, and you never accepted that Cypriots should be equal without racist discriminations.

This started from the Ottoman rule when you divided people into Muslims with more rights and Christians with less rights. In the 50s you started to demand the ethnic cleansing of the vast majority of Cypriots from the north part of our island and the total separation of the two communities. Then in 1960 you and your Imperialist partners imposed a constitution that divided Cypriots into Greeks with less rights and Turks with privileges. In 1963 you turned down proposals that would make the constitution more democratic. And in 1974 you put into actions the plan you had since the 50s, ehtnically cleansed the vast majority of Cypriots and occupied 1/3rd of our country.

So when did YOU accept democracy and human rights? You never did in the past, and you don't accept it now. You always find some lame excuse to refuse democracy and human rights.
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Postby Piratis » Thu Dec 17, 2009 12:45 am

BirKibrisli wrote:
Piratis wrote:
To change tack a little, are there any plausible theories as to what Turkey's motives were in permitting/emcouraging this rag-tag group of students to stage such a landing? In strict military and strategic terms this was surely madness. It was a case of sending lambs to their slaughter.


This was exactly my question Tim. This is why I asked if they went there for a picnic.

These people were 500 armed men, and they were obviously armed and brought to Cyprus by Turkey.

If they were indeed so helpless as Bir says, then why were they send to Cyprus by Turkey? Are the Turkish Generals idiots?

Bir asked if Turkey woke up one day and decided it was a nice day to drop some napalm on Cyprus. Apparently dropping napalm on Cyprus was not something decided that day, but a plan conceived much earlier. Bringing those 500 people in Cyprus so Turkey could come later and "save" them by bombing innocent people with napalm was apparently part of the plan.

If anybody has some more logical explanation then I would like to hear it.


You see Tim??? Piratis always finds some Turkish consiracy in everything...It doesnt suit him to think that perhaps the Turkish government simply wanted them off the streets for political reasons...The Prime Minister at the time, Ismet Inonu was the man who had signed Cyprus away to the British in 1923...Perhaps he didnt want to be reminded of that ,day after day by street protests......He was a proud,stubborn and rather difficult individual...
He obviously stuffed up big time with the students,and had to make ammends...He couldnt sit back and let them all be slaughtered like lambs...Such things would never cross Piratis's mind of course...Then he might have to account for the actions of the GC military at the time...Better to blame everything on the Turks and the TC...And have the hide to expect these people to come running into his arms,in a democratic state with human rights...It would be laughable if not so sad...


Turkey sends 500 armed men in Cyprus to attack us and you want to blame us for this? Didn't they send them in order to fight against us? Wasn't this the purpose of getting armed and coming to Cyprus?

And I have to correct you on something which you are VERY mistaken. I do not expect the TCs to "come running in my arms". I know very well that the TCs will settle for nothing less than stealing from us half of our country as per their plan of the 1950s which remains unchanged until today.
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