Cyprus-Forum.com

[Talisker]

CopperLine, your reasoning is very funny indeed. First you say that "TRNC" is only de Jure (nominally) non-recognized, but de facto (i.e. in practice) it isn't! Such a claim is nonsense (i.e. meaningless) to begin with, nevertheless even if we assume that this is the case, then where is the problem? Since in practice (i.e. de facto) it is recognized, and therefore (consequently) non-isolated; where does violation of human rights due to isolation fit? And why a regime must be recognized and non-isolated, in order to respect human rights? Shouldn't it be the opposite, i.e. a non-recognized regime to pay full and absolute respect to human rights, so as to gain the sympathy and eventual recognition of the international community?

Aside from the above (which show the defect in your reasoning in this case,) what do you expect RoC and the rest of the world to do? You expect the victims to allow, and the international community to assign recognition to an illegal and illegitimate regime; one that based and still bases its existence on an illegal invasion, occupation, indigenous population's ethnic cleansing and usurpation of all their belongings, so as not to be isolated and therefore cease to be a legal "black hole" and a further violator of human rights? Just because you and others had wrongly chosen to reside there? What nonsense indeed! You are asking the legalization of gross human rights violations, without the continuation of which the regime cannot exist in the first place, so as for this regime to stop violating more and other human rights, and allow access to AI? Is this your "legal" reasoning, or is it the reasoning of opportunism and expediency?

You truly sound like the fox asking the crow on a tree, with some meat in her mouth, to start singing so as to hear if her voice is as sweet and beautiful as is her appearance is…

Kifeas, if your car needs a battery, and the battery is 20 miles away, would you do a push start and go get it, or would you wait until a battery materializes from nowhere so you can fit it and go buy one.
I suspect you have an automatic which means you are stuck.

WTF? Kifeas, I think you will find the following as relevant and wise.

[Paphitis]

CopperLine, your reasoning is very funny indeed. First you say that "TRNC" is only de Jure (nominally) non-recognized, but de facto (i.e. in practice) it isn't! Such a claim is nonsense (i.e. meaningless) to begin with, nevertheless even if we assume that this is the case, then where is the problem? Since in practice (i.e. de facto) it is recognized, and therefore (consequently) non-isolated; where does violation of human rights due to isolation fit? And why a regime must be recognized and non-isolated, in order to respect human rights? Shouldn't it be the opposite, i.e. a non-recognized regime to pay full and absolute respect to human rights, so as to gain the sympathy and eventual recognition of the international community?

Aside from the above (which show the defect in your reasoning in this case,) what do you expect RoC and the rest of the world to do? You expect the victims to allow, and the international community to assign recognition to an illegal and illegitimate regime; one that based and still bases its existence on an illegal invasion, occupation, indigenous population's ethnic cleansing and usurpation of all their belongings, so as not to be isolated and therefore cease to be a legal "black hole" and a further violator of human rights? Just because you and others had wrongly chosen to reside there? What nonsense indeed! You are asking the legalization of gross human rights violations, without the continuation of which the regime cannot exist in the first place, so as for this regime to stop violating more and other human rights, and allow access to AI? Is this your "legal" reasoning, or is it the reasoning of opportunism and expediency?

You truly sound like the fox asking the crow on a tree, with some meat in her mouth, to start singing so as to hear if her voice is as sweet and beautiful as is her appearance is…

Kifeas, if your car needs a battery, and the battery is 20 miles away, would you do a push start and go get it, or would you wait until a battery materializes from nowhere so you can fit it and go buy one.
I suspect you have an automatic which means you are stuck.

WTF? Kifeas, I think you will find the following as relevant and wise.

You must forgive Y-Fred? He has very special needs and does not make any sense. But his posts provide good entertainment....

[YFred]

You must forgive Y-Fred? He has very special needs and does not make any sense. But his posts provide good entertainment....

Banaiyamu, danderasu je da vlanjasu, mavro lamon banosu reh vosko ganguru gologo bitta pufidobullo.

[Paphitis]

You must forgive Y-Fred? He has very special needs and does not make any sense. But his posts provide good entertainment....

Banaiyamu, danderasu je da vlanjasu, mavro lamon banosu reh vosko ganguru gologo bitta pufidobullo.

See what I mean!

[Paphitis]

They are free to question and challenge with objectivity, but their behavior in this country has been deplorable to say the least, and Australia will continue to perform its sovereign rights by securing its borders.

The amount of lives that have been saved seem to go unnoticed, as well as the country's very humane approach when handling these sensitive issues.

Quite clearly, the Australian public approves of Australia's security measures, which are humane, but never humane enough to allow illegal immigrants/asylum seekers/economic refugees/criminals free access to violate our borders and be awarded with permanent residency when we allow over 250,000 immigrants (many of whom are legitimate refugees) in per year.

AI can say what it likes, but we know longer take them too seriously.

That's interesting - digressing, I know, but 250,000 immigrants/year? How many are rejected? And weren't you telling me a while back that life is pretty tough for many new immigrants - I think you mentioned a medically-quelified immigrant who was now driving a taxi, and thinking of returning 'home'. I know such stories are common, but is Australia getting the most out of it's immigrants, not treating them as second class citizens, and thereby restricting their human rights?

More importantly - did you see the rugby yesterday?

He was an Engineer driving a cab, with many years in the Saudi Oil industry.

Life can be quite tough for immigrants that come from that part of the world due to some recent events in Oz. Many are finding it hard to find decent jobs even though they may be well qualified. This is quite sad.

I think Australia accepts most of its immigrants with very good intentions. However, HR managers within major Australian corporations who interview and hire workers don't always see things the same way, and may even choose to employ a lesser qualified Aussie (whether that be Anglo or continental European). Could almost be deemed racist, but of course this is impossible to prove.

The Government on the other hand does provide excellent support services, and many are employed within the Public Service. So no, the Government does not restrict their human rights. If they wanted to do that, then their entry visas would have been rejected in the first instance.

But yes, due to the attitudes of some Corporations towards workers from the Middle East, Australia may not be realizing its full potential, because many have top notch qualifications and still can't get a job. It is a big waste IMHO.

I can't tell you how many people are rejected, but I have no doubt that many are. 250,000 is all we are comfortable with. We don't have the infrastructure or the water resources to sustain a much bigger population because we are the driest continent.

Brisbane, a city of 2 million nearly ran out of water last year! That is scary.

[Talisker]

They are free to question and challenge with objectivity, but their behavior in this country has been deplorable to say the least, and Australia will continue to perform its sovereign rights by securing its borders.

The amount of lives that have been saved seem to go unnoticed, as well as the country's very humane approach when handling these sensitive issues.

Quite clearly, the Australian public approves of Australia's security measures, which are humane, but never humane enough to allow illegal immigrants/asylum seekers/economic refugees/criminals free access to violate our borders and be awarded with permanent residency when we allow over 250,000 immigrants (many of whom are legitimate refugees) in per year.

AI can say what it likes, but we know longer take them too seriously.

That's interesting - digressing, I know, but 250,000 immigrants/year? How many are rejected? And weren't you telling me a while back that life is pretty tough for many new immigrants - I think you mentioned a medically-quelified immigrant who was now driving a taxi, and thinking of returning 'home'. I know such stories are common, but is Australia getting the most out of it's immigrants, not treating them as second class citizens, and thereby restricting their human rights?

More importantly - did you see the rugby yesterday?

He was an Engineer driving a cab, with many years in the Saudi Oil industry.

Life can be quite tough for immigrants that come from that part of the world due to some recent events in Oz. Many are finding it hard to find decent jobs even though they may be well qualified. This is quite sad.

I think Australia accepts most of its immigrants with very good intentions. However, HR managers within major Australian corporations who interview and hire workers don't always see things the same way, and may even choose to employ a lesser qualified Aussie (whether that be Anglo or continental European). Could almost be deemed racist, but of course this is impossible to prove.

The Government on the other hand does provide excellent support services, and many are employed within the Public Service. So no, the Government does not restrict their human rights. If they wanted to do that, then their entry visas would have been rejected in the first instance.

But yes, due to the attitudes of some Corporations towards workers from the Middle East, Australia may not be realizing its full potential, because many have top notch qualifications and still can't get a job. It is a big waste IMHO.

I can't tell you how many people are rejected, but I have no doubt that many are. 250,000 is all we are comfortable with. We don't have the infrastructure or the water resources to sustain a much bigger population because we are the driest continent.

Brisbane, a city of 2 million nearly ran out of water last year! That is scary.

Thanks, that's interesting and answered one of my questions. But did you see the rugby?

[bill cobbett]

Can I come back to rights and the alleged Legal Isolation in the Occupied Areas by saying that for many years and in many successful cases the ECHR has deemed Turkey as the "controlling power" up there. So this legal isolation is in some areas an illusion.



A Turkey that is a member of the CoE and the ECHR and this has been the way through the buffer-zone of legal isolation. Now all the cases, and we are all familiar with them are related to Cyprob matters, such as cases of property rights, right to life etc but see no reason why other matters which have an effect on the lives of our tissy friends couldn't be brought before the ECHR.

One example might be the corruption of the Illegal Regime. All our tissy brethren have a right to (and it's one of the articles in the Convention) "good governance", an administration free of nepotism and corruption, the rewarding of political loyalties and services to the Regime by the grants of property that we all know has taken place.

Now of course there is the risk of reprisals for any tissy living under the Regime, who takes Turkey to the ECHR, but those who live in the Diaspora and whose rights were trampled on during a residency in Tnuclandmay wish to consider this route.

As ever, the road starts at the courts of the Republic with an action against Turkey, who never turns up to defend itself and then within the six month time limit of the exhaustion of this effective, local remedy, submit an application to the ECHR.

For the rest of us, in this legal isolation affair, consider also the matter of the Orams. Not much in the way of isolation there. People who thought they were beyond the reach of normal laws.

Also ... the struggle against the claimed legal wall enters new realms of possibilities in areas we haven't started exploring yet, by which I refer to such things as the new European Arrest Warrants

[YFred]

Can I come back to rights and the alleged Legal Isolation in the Occupied Areas by saying that for many years and in many successful cases the ECHR has deemed Turkey as the "controlling power" up there. So this legal isolation is in some areas an illusion.



A Turkey that is a member of the CoE and the ECHR and this has been the way through the buffer-zone of legal isolation. Now all the cases, and we are all familiar with them are related to Cyprob matters, such as cases of property rights, right to life etc but see no reason why other matters which have an effect on the lives of our tissy friends couldn't be brought before the ECHR.

One example might be the corruption of the Illegal Regime. All our tissy brethren have a right to (and it's one of the articles in the Convention) "good governance", an administration free of nepotism and corruption, the rewarding of political loyalties and services to the Regime by the grants of property that we all know has taken place.

Now of course there is the risk of reprisals for any tissy living under the Regime, who takes Turkey to the ECHR, but those who live in the Diaspora and whose rights were trampled on during a residency in Tnuclandmay wish to consider this route.

As ever, the road starts at the courts of the Republic with an action against Turkey, who never turns up to defend itself and then within the six month time limit of the exhaustion of this effective, local remedy, submit an application to the ECHR.

For the rest of us, in this legal isolation affair, consider also the matter of the Orams. Not much in the way of isolation there. People who thought they were beyond the reach of normal laws.

Also ... the struggle against the claimed legal wall enters new realms of possibilities in areas we haven't started exploring yet, by which I refer to such things as the new European Arrest Warrants

Is this to the same court and the same judge that told a TC to wait for a peace agreement to get his land back? I shan't hold my breath for that one billy boy. There are principles involved here. You know racism springs to mind, to just mention but one.

[bill cobbett]

.. And let me step over Freddie's attempt to disrupt and give him a good kick whilst jumping over him and say this ...

The government of the Republic has a duty of care in what happens in the Occupied Areas in these human right matters as they concern the tissy community up there, as these abuses of human rights take place within the area of it's sovereignty and its jurisdiction.

To not act whenever it can either by legal action itself or by backing tissy legal action is a "dereliction of its duty" as a Sovereign State.

[Get Real!]

That's a TC website so you should keep that in mind when reading from there.

You are an utter swine. You posted it, and now you are saying only believe the bits that are anti TRNC and Pro roc. You are a prize prat.
Is there on human right violations of TC and their properties in the south?
Are you buffoon?
The answer to both the above is a massive, gigantic and humongous yes.

I quoted the relevant section of this UNOFFICIAL (and rare for HR) TC site which verified the lack of a HR mechanism in the “TRNC”, but nobody suggested you read the rest of their drivel!