Cyprus-Forum.com

[insan]

Here is the human rights report of whole Cyprus in 2008 by Bureau of Democracy, Human Rights, and Labor.

http://www.state.gov/g/drl/rls/hrrpt/20 ... 119074.htm

That's just American crap.

Wasn't that among ur credible sources when suits?

[Get Real!]

Here is the human rights report of whole Cyprus in 2008 by Bureau of Democracy, Human Rights, and Labor.

http://www.state.gov/g/drl/rls/hrrpt/20 ... 119074.htm

That's just American crap.

Wasn't that among ur credible sources when suits?

http://www.amnesty.org/en/region/cyprus

http://humanrightscyprus.org/

http://www.cyprus.gov.cy/moi/PIO/PIO.ns ... penElement

[CopperLine]

It is something of an irony that there we have a thread about human rights in northern Cyprus in which many posters decry (rightly in my view) the human rights violations which occur daily, whilst on the other hand there is also a thread alleging that northern Cyprus is really that isolated after all. The kinds of instances of human rights violations is directly related to the isolation of northern Cyprus.

A few examples can be given. The violation of the right to enjoy one's property - at the heart of GC property claims before ECHR & ECJ - is a direct function of the isolating of the north. If the north were not isolated then complainants could readily resolve their claims locally.
The violation of human rights of sex workers in the brothels and clubs of north, by men of all nationalities including GCs, continues on such a scale precisely because the TRNC is isolated and not subject to separate investigations of its sex and trafficking industry by human rights organisations.
The violation of workers' rights, say in the construction industry, in terms of the rights to organise and associate and to safe and healthy conditions continues apace because, in large part, international trade union organisations and ILO-type organisations are prevented from acting in the TRNC because of the embargo.
The violation of rights of freedom of expression (eg criticising the idiocies of Ataturk worship) continue in popular culture as well as in the media and education because the isolation forces an ever closer integration with Turkey.

I wish TCs would assert their independence from Turkey with greater conviction than they do, but I understand what constrains them from doing so. I wish northern Cyprus's human rights record was far better than it has been, but the isolation of northern Cyprus has been a powerful contributor to the violation of TC human rights and to the ineffective monitoring of violations and the inability to prosecute human rights violations within TRNC or through international courts.

Those who are genuinely concerned about human rights violations in the north might stop a minute just to reflect on what the effect of isolation has had on increasing the violations or bolstering the feeling of impunity amongst human rights abusers.

Copperline, this is a really interesting and reflective post. I've regularly visited Cyprus for over 20 years, but never been to the occupied north and am therefore curious to know more about it. In fact, it seems quite difficult to find information about human rights (or lack of) in the occupied area on the web, presumably because of 'isolation', and the fact the regime is not internationally accepted, and therefore not subjected to the usual scrutiny of human rights organisations. Indeed, the respective Amnesty International reports from 2009 on human rights for Cyprus (http://www.amnesty.org/en/region/cyprus/report-2009) and Turkey (http://www.amnesty.org/en/region/turkey/report-2009) do not contain information relating to the regime and society in the north, and there is no separate report summarising the human rights situation there. If one reads these reports one would hope that the majority of TCs would prefer to live within a society aspiring to the relatively good record of the Cypriots rather than the repressive and discriminatory situation reported for Turkey.

Talisker,
Northern Cyprus is, to all intents and purposes, a legal black hole. That black hole is not an accident but has been created by two separate and apparently contradictory forces (and I'm not make a comment on whether these forces are right or wrong, just that they have had significant effect). First, there is the RoC and associated entities refusing to recognise TRNC, insisting on its illegality and therefore asserting its lack of legal standing in international law. Whilst de jure nominally successful - TRNC is not recognised - this movement has been unsuccessful in de facto. Secondly one has Turkey, essentially pushing the opposite line, but not succeeding de jure, but succeeding de facto.

The consequence of this contradiction is profound for TCs and for human rights in the north. (I should at this point say that I live in the north and see these consequences everyday). Take the example that you gave of Amnesty International. AI is an international NGO which needs access to all governments etc, including RoC and Turkey. Implicit in AI's work is the recognition of states, including these two. If AI were to recognise TRNC then RoC would deny access to AI. AI doesn't recognise TRNC, it doesn't conduct separate reports on TRNC (always relegated to a few lines on its Turkey report or RoC report). There has never been an AI field investigation in TRNC. Same is true of Human Rights Watch. Same is true of the ILO. Same is true of ..... you name it. You will not find a monitoring or survey report of northern Cyprus from any international non-governmental or non-governmental organisation. One of the consequences is that northern Cyprus is indeed *becoming* a home to all sorts of abuses and violations precisely because it is isolated and overlooked.

Typically there are those who say "well all you have to do is return the north to RoC and these abuses will disappear". Maybe so, maybe not. Either way it misses the point that forces which benefit from the black hole satus are also the forces who benefit from the isolation, and it is they who have effective political control. It is not however they who pay the price of human rights violations or of isolation, it is ordinary TCs and Turks (and others). The all to "just give it back" is a sad mixture of political naivite and carelessness about what is actually going on in the north.

[Get Real!]

http://www.ohchr.org/EN/Countries/ENACA ... Index.aspx

http://europa.eu/youth/your_rights/huma ... cy_en.html

[CopperLine]

Here is the human rights report of whole Cyprus in 2008 by Bureau of Democracy, Human Rights, and Labor.

http://www.state.gov/g/drl/rls/hrrpt/20 ... 119074.htm

Insan,
Thanks for this. The problem is not that "it is just American crap", the problem is that this is compiled from a range of other reports none of which were field investigations. So you have a junior desk officer in DC searching on the internet - like any forumer - for stuff on Cyprus and then pulling it altogether into one report which happens to mention the north as well. But this is categorically not a serious field investigation conducted by dedicated investigators by a dedicated international organisation - that's the problem.

[Get Real!]

Here is the human rights report of whole Cyprus in 2008 by Bureau of Democracy, Human Rights, and Labor.

http://www.state.gov/g/drl/rls/hrrpt/20 ... 119074.htm

Insan,
Thanks for this. The problem is not that "it is just American crap", the problem is that this is compiled from a range of other reports none of which were field investigations. So you have a junior desk officer in DC searching on the internet - like any forumer - for stuff on Cyprus and then pulling it altogether into one report which happens to mention the north as well. But this is categorically not a serious field investigation conducted by dedicated investigators by a dedicated international organisation - that's the problem.

Is that the philosophical way of saying that it’s a load of American crap?

[Paphitis]

Lately I have been pondering a lot about 'Human Rights'. I happened to remember the arrest of the PKK leader Ocalan and the furore from Human Rights groups who complained of his detention without trial. This was the leader of an organisation 'allegedly' responsible for the brutal murder or Turkish citizens of both Turkish and Kurdish background. We all remember that the EU , Amnsty International all jumping up and down with their knickers in the air.

How quiet they are now. In Turkey there are hundreds of Turkish Army high ranking officers in jail for over a year without charge and some have been 'allegedly' undergone torture. What happened to Amnesty Int and Human Rights Activists. We know they have double standards but their silence is deafening. Perhaps Talisker has the answer.(in a different thread ofcourse

Let me be clear on this Deniz - you are condemning the human rights monitoring organisations and not the abusers? Your comparison is an odd one - even I knew about Ocalan before he was arrested - he was a high-profile individual, and therefore he was easy for Amnesty International and others to monitor, whereas the arrests of the military figures you mention is presumably an internal security matter which has received little publicity, certainly in comparison with the Ocalan arrest. Have they been arrested to prevent a military coup? Either way, you highlight very nicely the lack of human rights in Turkey, which, I'm sure, explains in large part the similar absence of such rights in the TRNC.

You make a very interesting point, but, human rights monitoring agencies seem to be politically motivcated and lacking integrity.

I say this because they rightfully condemn Saudi Arabia for Sharia Law public beheadings, Iran for pubic lynchings, the US for Camp X Ray, and so on and so on. But when you study these human rights monitoring groups, you will notice that some countries (which actually set HR benchmarks but are not perfect) have HR rap sheets for merely incarcerating illegal immigrants, who have claimed asylum and are awaiting an immigration inquiry which could grant them asylum or have them deported. What do they expect? What else do they expect?

And yet, Deniz also raises a very interesting point. The fact that some Turkish Officers are being held in prison without being charged, without a trial and are being tortured, is a very noteworthy HR violation, which these HR agencies don't seem to be interested in. Organizations such as Amnesty International are a farce. I apologize for my cynicism.

I disagree. These organisations may not be perfect but the world would be a poorer place without them.

I agree with the fact hat these HR agencies serve a very worthwhile purpose, and the world would indeed be a poorer place without them. This is because they actually do a lot of good in monitoring HR violations all over the world, and they raise public awareness as well as pressure those countries that violate HR to bring about change.

However, the fact that some HR violations go unnoticed, whilst other countries are being condemned (because these left wing groups want to sling mud against those countries for politically motivated reasons) when there is no case to answer, will only undermine them.

Thanks for providing the link in your edited post regarding arrests of Turkish military officers.

Why do you assume HR organisations must have 'left wing' leanings and motivations for their actions?

Whilst participating in the Cyprus Forum, I have spent many hours researching various factual HR violations by Turkey and it puppet regime, the "trnc". Whilst doing this, you also come to the realisation that there is no nation in the world that is completely immune from alleged HR violations. Some countries are extreme violators of HR, such as Iran, North Korea, China, Saudi Arabia and many more. Others commit very minor HR violations and are more or less those who set HR benchmarks. The EU, Australia, Canada, New Zealand are few examples of such countries.

However, in Australia, HR agencies have lost much credibility, because of their very vocal opposition to Australia's Pacific Solution. During this time, you would have thought that Australia was a tin pot, fascistic, Middle Eastern or West African nation. The Amnesty International rent a crowd was cutting barbed wire at Immigration Detention facilities, were generally behaving like first class clowns trying to bring down a system that was obviously working for Australia, and stopping illegal immigration dead in its tracks. These adverse HR reports were politically motivated against a Government that became the most popular administration in Australian political history. And yet, once again, Amnesty International is not quite as vocal about Australia sending 76 asylum seekers to Indonesia, a country which has a similarly deplorable HR record to Turkey.

Many here feel that these groups are far too inconsistent, and are very selective of picking their stance against various nations. Some of their reports are bordering the ridiculous.

[Get Real!]

http://www.hrw.org/en/search/apachesolr_search/Cyprus

http://www.unhchr.ch/Huridocda/Huridoca.nsf/(Symbol)/E.CN.4.2003.31.En?Opendocument


OVERVIEW OF THE HUMAN RIGHTS SITUATION IN NORTH CYPRUS

Unlike most countries, especially in the European Union (EU), there is no comprehensive monitoring of the human rights situation in North Cyprus. So far, there is no public institution entrusted with this task and no civil society organisation or network is systematically collecting relevant data. There is no parliamentary human rights commission, specially appointed human rights ombudsman or institution operating a systematic human rights recording and reporting system.

http://www.ktihv.org/Eng/content/view/43/13/

[Get Real!]

Whilst participating in the Cyprus Forum, I have spent many hours researching various factual HR violations by Turkey and it puppet regime, the "trnc". Whilst doing this, you also come to the realisation that there is no nation in the world that is completely immune from alleged HR violations. Some countries are extreme violators of HR, such as Iran, North Korea, China, Saudi Arabia and many more.

No mention whatsoever of the world's biggest violator of Human Rights???

Sleep tight Paphitis…

Sleep...

S l e e p...

[insan]

Here is the human rights report of whole Cyprus in 2008 by Bureau of Democracy, Human Rights, and Labor.

http://www.state.gov/g/drl/rls/hrrpt/20 ... 119074.htm

Insan,
Thanks for this. The problem is not that "it is just American crap", the problem is that this is compiled from a range of other reports none of which were field investigations. So you have a junior desk officer in DC searching on the internet - like any forumer - for stuff on Cyprus and then pulling it altogether into one report which happens to mention the north as well. But this is categorically not a serious field investigation conducted by dedicated investigators by a dedicated international organisation - that's the problem.

R there any contradicting parts of this report with other reports prepared and presented by international organizations and local NGOs? In my opinion there aren't. So it well informs the public abt human rights violations(fact or alleged) in those countries.