Cyprus-Forum.com

[Paphitis]

Lately I have been pondering a lot about 'Human Rights'. I happened to remember the arrest of the PKK leader Ocalan and the furore from Human Rights groups who complained of his detention without trial. This was the leader of an organisation 'allegedly' responsible for the brutal murder or Turkish citizens of both Turkish and Kurdish background. We all remember that the EU , Amnsty International all jumping up and down with their knickers in the air.

How quiet they are now. In Turkey there are hundreds of Turkish Army high ranking officers in jail for over a year without charge and some have been 'allegedly' undergone torture. What happened to Amnesty Int and Human Rights Activists. We know they have double standards but their silence is deafening. Perhaps Talisker has the answer.(in a different thread ofcourse

Let me be clear on this Deniz - you are condemning the human rights monitoring organisations and not the abusers? Your comparison is an odd one - even I knew about Ocalan before he was arrested - he was a high-profile individual, and therefore he was easy for Amnesty International and others to monitor, whereas the arrests of the military figures you mention is presumably an internal security matter which has received little publicity, certainly in comparison with the Ocalan arrest. Have they been arrested to prevent a military coup? Either way, you highlight very nicely the lack of human rights in Turkey, which, I'm sure, explains in large part the similar absence of such rights in the TRNC.

You make a very interesting point, but, human rights monitoring agencies seem to be politically motivcated and lacking integrity.

I say this because they rightfully condemn Saudi Arabia for Sharia Law public beheadings, Iran for pubic lynchings, the US for Camp X Ray, and so on and so on. But when you study these human rights monitoring groups, you will notice that some countries (which actually set HR benchmarks but are not perfect) have HR rap sheets for merely incarcerating illegal immigrants, who have claimed asylum and are awaiting an immigration inquiry which could grant them asylum or have them deported. What do they expect? What else do they expect?

And yet, Deniz also raises a very interesting point. The fact that some Turkish Officers are being held in prison without being charged, without a trial and are being tortured, is a very noteworthy HR violation, which these HR agencies don't seem to be interested in. Organizations such as Amnesty International are a farce. I apologize for my cynicism.

The Ergenekon Group of officers, that may have been planning a coup, is certainly a high profile case. And their subsequent incarcerations, without trial, seems to have gone unnoticed by many HR groups, but certainly not the international press.

This is damaging to their credibility as far as I am concerned.

http://www.reuters.com/article/latestCrisis/idUSLO41767

[Talisker]

Lately I have been pondering a lot about 'Human Rights'. I happened to remember the arrest of the PKK leader Ocalan and the furore from Human Rights groups who complained of his detention without trial. This was the leader of an organisation 'allegedly' responsible for the brutal murder or Turkish citizens of both Turkish and Kurdish background. We all remember that the EU , Amnsty International all jumping up and down with their knickers in the air.

How quiet they are now. In Turkey there are hundreds of Turkish Army high ranking officers in jail for over a year without charge and some have been 'allegedly' undergone torture. What happened to Amnesty Int and Human Rights Activists. We know they have double standards but their silence is deafening. Perhaps Talisker has the answer.(in a different thread ofcourse

Let me be clear on this Deniz - you are condemning the human rights monitoring organisations and not the abusers? Your comparison is an odd one - even I knew about Ocalan before he was arrested - he was a high-profile individual, and therefore he was easy for Amnesty International and others to monitor, whereas the arrests of the military figures you mention is presumably an internal security matter which has received little publicity, certainly in comparison with the Ocalan arrest. Have they been arrested to prevent a military coup? Either way, you highlight very nicely the lack of human rights in Turkey, which, I'm sure, explains in large part the similar absence of such rights in the TRNC.

You make a very interesting point, but, human rights monitoring agencies seem to be politically motivcated and lacking integrity.

I say this because they rightfully condemn Saudi Arabia for Sharia Law public beheadings, Iran for pubic lynchings, the US for Camp X Ray, and so on and so on. But when you study these human rights monitoring groups, you will notice that some countries (which actually set HR benchmarks but are not perfect) have HR rap sheets for merely incarcerating illegal immigrants, who have claimed asylum and are awaiting an immigration inquiry which could grant them asylum or have them deported. What do they expect? What else do they expect?

And yet, Deniz also raises a very interesting point. The fact that some Turkish Officers are being held in prison without being charged, without a trial and are being tortured, is a very noteworthy HR violation, which these HR agencies don't seem to be interested in. Organizations such as Amnesty International are a farce. I apologize for my cynicism.

I disagree. These organisations may not be perfect but the world would be a poorer place without them.

[Paphitis]

Lately I have been pondering a lot about 'Human Rights'. I happened to remember the arrest of the PKK leader Ocalan and the furore from Human Rights groups who complained of his detention without trial. This was the leader of an organisation 'allegedly' responsible for the brutal murder or Turkish citizens of both Turkish and Kurdish background. We all remember that the EU , Amnsty International all jumping up and down with their knickers in the air.

How quiet they are now. In Turkey there are hundreds of Turkish Army high ranking officers in jail for over a year without charge and some have been 'allegedly' undergone torture. What happened to Amnesty Int and Human Rights Activists. We know they have double standards but their silence is deafening. Perhaps Talisker has the answer.(in a different thread ofcourse

Let me be clear on this Deniz - you are condemning the human rights monitoring organisations and not the abusers? Your comparison is an odd one - even I knew about Ocalan before he was arrested - he was a high-profile individual, and therefore he was easy for Amnesty International and others to monitor, whereas the arrests of the military figures you mention is presumably an internal security matter which has received little publicity, certainly in comparison with the Ocalan arrest. Have they been arrested to prevent a military coup? Either way, you highlight very nicely the lack of human rights in Turkey, which, I'm sure, explains in large part the similar absence of such rights in the TRNC.

You make a very interesting point, but, human rights monitoring agencies seem to be politically motivcated and lacking integrity.

I say this because they rightfully condemn Saudi Arabia for Sharia Law public beheadings, Iran for pubic lynchings, the US for Camp X Ray, and so on and so on. But when you study these human rights monitoring groups, you will notice that some countries (which actually set HR benchmarks but are not perfect) have HR rap sheets for merely incarcerating illegal immigrants, who have claimed asylum and are awaiting an immigration inquiry which could grant them asylum or have them deported. What do they expect? What else do they expect?

And yet, Deniz also raises a very interesting point. The fact that some Turkish Officers are being held in prison without being charged, without a trial and are being tortured, is a very noteworthy HR violation, which these HR agencies don't seem to be interested in. Organizations such as Amnesty International are a farce. I apologize for my cynicism.

I disagree. These organisations may not be perfect but the world would be a poorer place without them.

I agree with the fact hat these HR agencies serve a very worthwhile purpose, and the world would indeed be a poorer place without them. This is because they actually do a lot of good in monitoring HR violations all over the world, and they raise public awareness as well as pressure those countries that violate HR to bring about change.

However, the fact that some HR violations go unnoticed, whilst other countries are being condemned (because these left wing groups want to sling mud against those countries for politically motivated reasons) when there is no case to answer, will only undermine them.

[Talisker]

Lately I have been pondering a lot about 'Human Rights'. I happened to remember the arrest of the PKK leader Ocalan and the furore from Human Rights groups who complained of his detention without trial. This was the leader of an organisation 'allegedly' responsible for the brutal murder or Turkish citizens of both Turkish and Kurdish background. We all remember that the EU , Amnsty International all jumping up and down with their knickers in the air.

How quiet they are now. In Turkey there are hundreds of Turkish Army high ranking officers in jail for over a year without charge and some have been 'allegedly' undergone torture. What happened to Amnesty Int and Human Rights Activists. We know they have double standards but their silence is deafening. Perhaps Talisker has the answer.(in a different thread ofcourse

Let me be clear on this Deniz - you are condemning the human rights monitoring organisations and not the abusers? Your comparison is an odd one - even I knew about Ocalan before he was arrested - he was a high-profile individual, and therefore he was easy for Amnesty International and others to monitor, whereas the arrests of the military figures you mention is presumably an internal security matter which has received little publicity, certainly in comparison with the Ocalan arrest. Have they been arrested to prevent a military coup? Either way, you highlight very nicely the lack of human rights in Turkey, which, I'm sure, explains in large part the similar absence of such rights in the TRNC.

You make a very interesting point, but, human rights monitoring agencies seem to be politically motivcated and lacking integrity.

I say this because they rightfully condemn Saudi Arabia for Sharia Law public beheadings, Iran for pubic lynchings, the US for Camp X Ray, and so on and so on. But when you study these human rights monitoring groups, you will notice that some countries (which actually set HR benchmarks but are not perfect) have HR rap sheets for merely incarcerating illegal immigrants, who have claimed asylum and are awaiting an immigration inquiry which could grant them asylum or have them deported. What do they expect? What else do they expect?

And yet, Deniz also raises a very interesting point. The fact that some Turkish Officers are being held in prison without being charged, without a trial and are being tortured, is a very noteworthy HR violation, which these HR agencies don't seem to be interested in. Organizations such as Amnesty International are a farce. I apologize for my cynicism.

I disagree. These organisations may not be perfect but the world would be a poorer place without them.

I agree with the fact hat these HR agencies serve a very worthwhile purpose, and the world would indeed be a poorer place without them. This is because they actually do a lot of good in monitoring HR violations all over the world, and they raise public awareness as well as pressure those countries that violate HR to bring about change.

However, the fact that some HR violations go unnoticed, whilst other countries are being condemned (because these left wing groups want to sling mud against those countries for politically motivated reasons) when there is no case to answer, will only undermine them.

Thanks for providing the link in your edited post regarding arrests of Turkish military officers.

Why do you assume HR organisations must have 'left wing' leanings and motivations for their actions?

[YFred]

Before we can accuse others we must put our own house in order first. You are being very disingenuous accusing a very poor country trying to survive on human rights when every single member of the EU have collaborated with the Americans in their extraordinary rendition activities. We are talking imprisoning people without charge and torturing and then eventually releasing them without charge years later.
You have some front my friend. From your avatar I get this feeling you like a bit of grass and spend most of your time in the virtual world on cloud nine, you may do better staying there.

[Talisker]

Before we can accuse others we must put our own house in order first. You are being very disingenuous accusing a very poor country trying to survive on human rights when every single member of the EU have collaborated with the Americans in their extraordinary rendition activities. We are talking imprisoning people without charge and torturing and then eventually releasing them without charge years later.

I condemn HR abuses by any government. I started the thread because I found the website outlining shortcomings of the TRNC in this area. Your response seems to be (i) the situation imposed on us by others (embargoes, sanctions, etc) has resulted in our economy being weak, our people being poor, and therefore unconcerned about HR abuses within this society (the 'pass the buck' excuse) and (ii) everyone else does it so why shouldn't we?

You have some front my friend. From your avatar I get this feeling you like a bit of grass and spend most of your time in the virtual world on cloud nine, you may do better staying there.

You demonstrate again your weakness in intellectual analysis and dialogue by your continued technique of denigrating anyone who disagrees with you and highlights negative aspects of the illegitimate regime that is the TRNC.

[DT.]

Before we can accuse others we must put our own house in order first. You are being very disingenuous accusing a very poor country trying to survive on human rights when every single member of the EU have collaborated with the Americans in their extraordinary rendition activities. We are talking imprisoning people without charge and torturing and then eventually releasing them without charge years later.
You have some front my friend. From your avatar I get this feeling you like a bit of grass and spend most of your time in the virtual world on cloud nine, you may do better staying there.

Just passed the 2nd anniversary of the death of Stephis Stephanou. A man held in a turkish cypriot jail without charge for 2 weeks. He died in the jail with 11 broken ribs.

[YFred]

Before we can accuse others we must put our own house in order first. You are being very disingenuous accusing a very poor country trying to survive on human rights when every single member of the EU have collaborated with the Americans in their extraordinary rendition activities. We are talking imprisoning people without charge and torturing and then eventually releasing them without charge years later.
You have some front my friend. From your avatar I get this feeling you like a bit of grass and spend most of your time in the virtual world on cloud nine, you may do better staying there.

Just passed the 2nd anniversary of the death of Stephis Stephanou. A man held in a turkish cypriot jail without charge for 2 weeks. He died in the jail with 11 broken ribs.

May he rest in Peace with all the others who were killed unjustly, GC and TC.

Welcome back by the way?

[Talisker]

Before we can accuse others we must put our own house in order first. You are being very disingenuous accusing a very poor country trying to survive on human rights when every single member of the EU have collaborated with the Americans in their extraordinary rendition activities. We are talking imprisoning people without charge and torturing and then eventually releasing them without charge years later.
You have some front my friend. From your avatar I get this feeling you like a bit of grass and spend most of your time in the virtual world on cloud nine, you may do better staying there.

Just passed the 2nd anniversary of the death of Stephis Stephanou. A man held in a turkish cypriot jail without charge for 2 weeks. He died in the jail with 11 broken ribs.

DT, YFred will no doubt argue this was a result of economic isolation. Nothing to do with a brutal and corrupt regime in the north.

[YFred]

Before we can accuse others we must put our own house in order first. You are being very disingenuous accusing a very poor country trying to survive on human rights when every single member of the EU have collaborated with the Americans in their extraordinary rendition activities. We are talking imprisoning people without charge and torturing and then eventually releasing them without charge years later.
You have some front my friend. From your avatar I get this feeling you like a bit of grass and spend most of your time in the virtual world on cloud nine, you may do better staying there.

Just passed the 2nd anniversary of the death of Stephis Stephanou. A man held in a turkish cypriot jail without charge for 2 weeks. He died in the jail with 11 broken ribs.

DT, YFred will no doubt argue this was a result of economic isolation. Nothing to do with a brutal and corrupt regime in the north.

You need to discuss police brutality in the north, first clean up your own police force and and then the justice system and then we can talk about TRNC police force. I suspect about a hundred years time, but then again may be not.