Cyprus-Forum.com

[YFred]

The fact of the matter is that the unitary state has been placed out of reach for Cyprus, by people who in the not so distant past conspired against democracy and human rights of Cypriots by exhibiting a total lack of understanding of the complex political realities that existed in this turbulent part of the world. Perhaps, at the time, they could be excused, mainly because of ignorance.

These people are ready to make the same mistake today and their motto, once again, has to do with their moral high ground stance, on democracy and human rights. Today, there is no excuse, because it does not take a genius to understand that we need to pick the best option in front of us but this option has to be chosen by both parts.

It is easy to use nice slogans but they do not solve our problem.

I do not understand one thing. Is Piratis so naive that he believes that unitary state can be achieved or does he have an ulterior motive- enosis?

[Piratis]

I do not understand one thing. Is Piratis so naive that he believes that unitary state can be achieved or does he have an ulterior motive- enosis?

YFred, a unitary state is what we already have. Republic of Cyprus is a unitary state, part of which is illegally occupied by Turkish troops.

Probably what you wanted to say is that TCs accepting legality (unitary state) is impossible. I agree with you, and I am not naive at all to believe the opposite. Another impossible thing is for GCs accepting to legalize partition with some kind of Annan plan. If you believe we will ever accept such thing then you are the naive one.

The fact of the matter is that the unitary state has been placed out of reach for Cyprus, by people who in the not so distant past conspired against democracy and human rights of Cypriots by exhibiting a total lack of understanding of the complex political realities that existed in this turbulent part of the world. Perhaps, at the time, they could be excused, mainly because of ignorance.

These people are ready to make the same mistake today and their motto, once again, has to do with their moral high ground stance, on democracy and human rights. Today, there is no excuse, because it does not take a genius to understand that we need to pick the best option in front of us but this option has to be chosen by both parts.

The only reason we are negotiating anything other than a unitary state today is because Turkey is illegally occupying 1/3rd of our territory, keeping our land as hostage and blackmailing us with this.

Of course this doesn't mean that we will accept whatever option the Turks put in front of us! The options that the Turks offer solve only their problems and create more for us. For an option to constitute a solution it must solve our problems as well. If the option does not constitute a solution to our problems why should we take it? To solve the problems of the Turks?

It is easy to use nice slogans but they do not solve our problem.

Exactly! It is not about options and slogans with empty words such as "solution" and "unification", it is about real solutions that actually solve our problems. When we have the option for a real solution be sure we will take it. Until then our problem will be recognized as a problem because there is nothing worst than having a problem which is not even recognized as such.

[Viewpoint]

Piratis you want a solution that suits only you and your followers, Bananiot shows signs that he can care and address the needs of both communities regardless of them being TC or GC that hy I would trust his with my future in a unitary state with proportional representation. He warrants such trust whereasyou do not and therefore seeing you are the majority we must ask and obtain as many safeguards and guarantees as possible as clearly your intentions are not for the benefit of all the people who live on this island but only those that belong to a majortity group of GC origin who can use their numbers to the detrement of of those with TC origin.

If you cannot understand what I am saying then you are just playing stupid because you do not want to accept that people with a different approach can easily obtain what you can never obtain due to your narrow and warped vision of TCs..

[YFred]

I do not understand one thing. Is Piratis so naive that he believes that unitary state can be achieved or does he have an ulterior motive- enosis?

YFred, a unitary state is what we already have. Republic of Cyprus is a unitary state, part of which is illegally occupied by Turkish troops.

Probably what you wanted to say is that TCs accepting legality (unitary state) is impossible. I agree with you, and I am not naive at all to believe the opposite. Another impossible thing is for GCs accepting to legalize partition with some kind of Annan plan. If you believe we will ever accept such thing then you are the naive one.

The fact of the matter is that the unitary state has been placed out of reach for Cyprus, by people who in the not so distant past conspired against democracy and human rights of Cypriots by exhibiting a total lack of understanding of the complex political realities that existed in this turbulent part of the world. Perhaps, at the time, they could be excused, mainly because of ignorance.

These people are ready to make the same mistake today and their motto, once again, has to do with their moral high ground stance, on democracy and human rights. Today, there is no excuse, because it does not take a genius to understand that we need to pick the best option in front of us but this option has to be chosen by both parts.

The only reason we are negotiating anything other than a unitary state today is because Turkey is illegally occupying 1/3rd of our territory, keeping our land as hostage and blackmailing us with this.

Of course this doesn't mean that we will accept whatever option the Turks put in front of us! The options that the Turks offer solve only their problems and create more for us. For an option to constitute a solution it must solve our problems as well. If the option does not constitute a solution to our problems why should we take it? To solve the problems of the Turks?

It is easy to use nice slogans but they do not solve our problem.

Exactly! It is not about options and slogans with empty words such as "solution" and "unification", it is about real solutions that actually solve our problems. When we have the option for a real solution be sure we will take it. Until then our problem will be recognized as a problem because there is nothing worst than having a problem which is not even recognized as such.

Piratis, only in your imagination. The unitary state has not existed since 1963. You can ignore it to your peril. If you want to have unitary state, then listen to the TCs concern, because if you don't they will eventually turn there back on you and international community will move their position despite what roc says. Countries are split and created from others demise since time began. Nothing remains the same. 200 Hundred years ago the British empire was huge, look at it today.

[Piratis]

Piratis you want a solution that suits only you and your followers, Bananiot shows signs that he can care and address the needs of both communities regardless of them being TC or GC that hy I would trust his with my future in a unitary state with proportional representation. He warrants such trust whereasyou do not and therefore seeing you are the majority we must ask and obtain as many safeguards and guarantees as possible as clearly your intentions are not for the benefit of all the people who live on this island but only those that belong to a majortity group of GC origin who can use their numbers to the detrement of of those with TC origin.

If you cannot understand what I am saying then you are just playing stupid because you do not want to accept that people with a different approach can easily obtain what you can never obtain due to your narrow and warped vision of TCs..

VP, you either think we are stupid, or you are stupid yourself.

You said: "Piratis you want a solution that suits only you and your followers, Bananiot shows signs that he can care and address the needs of both communities regardless of them being TC or GC that hy I would trust his with my future in a unitary state with proportional representation"


So lets analize what you said logically:

Premise 1: A unitary state with proportional representation suits GCs
Premise 2: A unitary state with proportional representation does not suit TCs
Premise 3: You can not trust anybody who supports something that suits only GCs.

Conclusion: Somebody who supports unitary state with proportional representation which according to you suits only GCs can not be trusted.

Replace "Somebody" with "Piratis", and your conclusion is that "Piratis can not be trusted". Replace "Somebody" with "Bananiot" and the conclusion would be that "Bananiot can not be trusted". So the very moment that Bananiot would ask for a unitary state with proportional representation at that same moment you would not trust him anymore.

So how would we get a unitary state with proportional representation if all GCs were like Bananiot, and in order to be trusted we should never ask for a unitary state with proportional representation (or our human and democratic rights for that matter)? The only other way would be if you proposed such kind of solution. But based on the first two premises (that such a solution suits only GCs and not TCs) we can safely assume that you would never propose something that suits only GCs and not TCs.

The only question that remains to be answered VP is: Are you stupid, or you think some GCs are stupid and you expect from them to be fooled by you and become Bananiots, so you can get your partition and everything else you want, while those fools would be waiting in vain for the unitary state and proportional representation you promised to them in case they become Bananiots?

[Piratis]

I do not understand one thing. Is Piratis so naive that he believes that unitary state can be achieved or does he have an ulterior motive- enosis?

YFred, a unitary state is what we already have. Republic of Cyprus is a unitary state, part of which is illegally occupied by Turkish troops.

Probably what you wanted to say is that TCs accepting legality (unitary state) is impossible. I agree with you, and I am not naive at all to believe the opposite. Another impossible thing is for GCs accepting to legalize partition with some kind of Annan plan. If you believe we will ever accept such thing then you are the naive one.

The fact of the matter is that the unitary state has been placed out of reach for Cyprus, by people who in the not so distant past conspired against democracy and human rights of Cypriots by exhibiting a total lack of understanding of the complex political realities that existed in this turbulent part of the world. Perhaps, at the time, they could be excused, mainly because of ignorance.

These people are ready to make the same mistake today and their motto, once again, has to do with their moral high ground stance, on democracy and human rights. Today, there is no excuse, because it does not take a genius to understand that we need to pick the best option in front of us but this option has to be chosen by both parts.

The only reason we are negotiating anything other than a unitary state today is because Turkey is illegally occupying 1/3rd of our territory, keeping our land as hostage and blackmailing us with this.

Of course this doesn't mean that we will accept whatever option the Turks put in front of us! The options that the Turks offer solve only their problems and create more for us. For an option to constitute a solution it must solve our problems as well. If the option does not constitute a solution to our problems why should we take it? To solve the problems of the Turks?

It is easy to use nice slogans but they do not solve our problem.

Exactly! It is not about options and slogans with empty words such as "solution" and "unification", it is about real solutions that actually solve our problems. When we have the option for a real solution be sure we will take it. Until then our problem will be recognized as a problem because there is nothing worst than having a problem which is not even recognized as such.

Piratis, only in your imagination. The unitary state has not existed since 1963. You can ignore it to your peril. If you want to have unitary state, then listen to the TCs concern, because if you don't they will eventually turn there back on you and international community will move their position despite what roc says. Countries are split and created from others demise since time began. Nothing remains the same. 200 Hundred years ago the British empire was huge, look at it today.

Republic of Cyprus is a unitary state and either you like it or not it exists.

The British empire crumbled because their rule over foreign lands was illegitimate. Just like your rule over the north part of Cyprus. The only reason you can occupy the north part of Cyprus is the current balance of power. But in the same way that whole empires lost Cyprus when their power run out, the same will happen to you.

You can be certain that we will absolutely never sign away our land to you, and this means that it is only a matter of time until we get back what belongs to us.

[denizaksulu]

Piratis you want a solution that suits only you and your followers, Bananiot shows signs that he can care and address the needs of both communities regardless of them being TC or GC that hy I would trust his with my future in a unitary state with proportional representation. He warrants such trust whereasyou do not and therefore seeing you are the majority we must ask and obtain as many safeguards and guarantees as possible as clearly your intentions are not for the benefit of all the people who live on this island but only those that belong to a majortity group of GC origin who can use their numbers to the detrement of of those with TC origin.

If you cannot understand what I am saying then you are just playing stupid because you do not want to accept that people with a different approach can easily obtain what you can never obtain due to your narrow and warped vision of TCs..

Well put VP. We need more Bananiots than Pratisi if we are ever to live in a 'unified state. The likes of Pratisi are likely to unbalance any settlement reached.

[Tim Drayton]

Many sad events of our common history have shown us that even the so-called leftists of GCs don't worth building a close realtionship, struggling for common interests.

Even Bananiot, who has some close relationships with some TCs to a degree; does not hesitate to define TC community as a minority at every occassion...

There r some other contradictions in Bananiot's world that strongly reminds me the contradictions existed in AKEL's world. The contradictions that led assassination of several leftist TCs in late 50s and first half of 60s.

Insan, that comment is rather inaccurate. The two TC lawyers and Kavazoglu was killed by TMT. Mishauli was an exception becasue he was in the car with Kavazoglu. The general rule here applies. Your enemy's enemy is your friend. The leftists on both sides were killed by their own. It's the innocent cypriots that were killed by the other side. Leader would give the order to kill somebody. They would go out to the filds and find somebody and hill them. That is the sadest aspect of the people who disapeared in the early 60s. They are totally innocent, because eoka and TMT did not need to do any work and they all knew it.

There is a body of evidence which suggests that the actual killing was done by two left wingers from Louroujina. They had apparently been liasing with Kavazoğlu and clandestinely circulating AKEL propaganda leaflets among people they trusted in the village but one these people betrayed them to the local TMT leadership. The local TMT was about to summarily execute these two left wingers for 'treason' when TMT headquarters intervened and suggested a deal. They could either assist in the murder of Kavazoğlu, in which case they would then be resettled in the UK with enough money to start a business, or face the firing squad. Not suprisingly, they chose the first of these two options. It was because Mishaulis and Kavazoglu thought they were heading for a rendevous with two trusted left wingers that they felt no compunction about travelling so close to this TMT stronghold. (This comes from evidence presented in one of the respected researcher Ahmet An's books)

[B25]

Hello Yfred, calling Yfred, are you receiveing over??

Note:

There is a body of evidence which suggests that the actual killing was done by two left wingers from Louroujina.

So where do you fit in old boy??? Hmmm???

[Tim Drayton]

Hello Yfred, calling Yfred, are you receiveing over??

Note:

There is a body of evidence which suggests that the actual killing was done by two left wingers from Louroujina.

So where do you fit in old boy??? Hmmm???

Let us be fair. Assuming that An's account of events is correct, which option would you have taken under the circumstances?