Cyprus-Forum.com

[Piratis]

What does it matter who was better?

It is like telling us that if your wife was raped and then I come and rape her more "gently" than the other guy, your wife should say "thanks" to me!!!

Whats worst is if I come up to your wife and say "hey, why you don't thank me, I was better than your other rapist".

Instead of apologizing for the crimes and oppression you caused to us for centuries you expect our gratitude on top of that???

[erolz]

Instead of apologizing for the crimes and oppression you caused to us for centuries you expect our gratitude on top of that???

We caused?

We are ottomans are we?

The TC are not the ottomans. The GC that killed and oppressed us are the same GC that are aroud today - one of which is your president. Now if we had a president that was an ottoman who had been personaly involved in ottoman oppression of GC that would be one thing but we do not. You have a president who was _personaly_ involved in the opprssion of TC by GC. Yet you want us to forget this oppresion and have no concerns re it happening again - because the ottomans ruled you hundreds of years ago. I have said this before and will say it again.

GC are responsible for the actions of GC
TC are responsible for the actions of TC
Ottomans are responsible for the actions of the Ottomans (and they no longer exist)

You seek to excuse r balance the violence and oppresion of TC by GC based on the oppression of GC by the Ottomans. We are not the ottomans. We are not reposnible for the acts of the ottomans. We are are responsible for the acts of TC - as you are for the acts of GC. You may just as well add in all the other 'oppresors' (owners) of cyprus as well - the eventians, the knight templar, the british etc etc etc. In essense what you are saying is that GC suffered centuries of being ruled by others so anything they do or did to TC does not matter becuase it is always less than what GC suffered. at whose hands you suffered it matters not a jot to you as shown by the ease in which you blame TC for what the ottomans did.

[Piratis]

We are ottomans are we?

You tell me. You are not? So I guess those that claim that TCs have 500 years of history on this island is not true and you actually have just some decades?
So what do you choose Ottomans and 500 years of history in Cyprus, or not Ottomans?

I think most TCs choose Ottomans since they often claim 500 years of history in Cyprus.

[erolz]

You tell me. You are not? So I guess those that claim that TCs have 500 years of history on this island is not true and you actually have just some decades?
So what do you choose Ottomans and 500 years of history in Cyprus, or not Ottomans?

I think most TCs choose Ottomans since they often claim 500 years of history in Cyprus.

No we are not ottomans, we are descendants of the ottomans. Just as you (and I) are not an ape but a desendant of apes. See the difference? TC culture traces it roots back to the ottoman conquest of cyprus and those roots do indeed go back 500 years. That does not mean we are ottomans today or that our unique culture is ottoman - it is TC. Influence by ottoman culture no doubt but different none the less. Thus we are not responsible for what the ottomans did 500 years ago. GC are responsible for what GC did in the 60's. See the difference?

[magikthrill]

GC are responsible for what GC did in the 60's. See the difference?

erol with your logic, in 30 years when all the GCs involved in the 60s are dead and buried and hte situation has not changed then only the TCs will be at fault for occupying territory that does not belong to them.

[Piratis]

Thus we are not responsible for what the ottomans did 500 years ago. GC are responsible for what GC did in the 60's. See the difference?

No I don't see. I was not born in the 60s, so how am I and my future children and grandchildren responsible for the actions of my ancestors, but you are not responsible for the actions of your ancestors?

[erolz]

No I don't see. I was not born in the 60s, so how am I and my future children and grandchildren responsible for the actions of my ancestors, but you are not responsible for the actions of your ancestors?

TP and many others that were directly involved in the oppresion of TC by GC in the 60's are not your ancestors. They are your fellow citizens and in TP case your duly elected president. Futher the GC people today are not a different people from those in the 60's, in the way the TC people today are different from the ottomans.

[Khan]

This thread was not created to settle who ruled Cyprus better, i was merely pointing out that a lot of GC on this forum assume Ottomans must have savagely ruled Cyprus because they were Turks. This was not true, and i find the reply by MicAtCyp that Ottoman rule was 100 times worse than Venetians to be the sort of statements which create misunderstanding and prejudice between GC and TC.

[Othellos]

It is true that in the Medieval era, the Venetians were tough on the Greek population of the island. And it is also true that when the Ottomans invaded Cyprus in 1570, the locals didn't really care much about helping their (Venetian) occupiers. But the fall of Nicosia and the mass attrocities that were carried out by the Turks against the town's civilian population, made many of them to reconsider. In Famagusta, the locals chose to participate in the 11 month long defence of the town against the invaders. About half of the town's 11,000 defenders wer Greek.

Greek Cypriots were not denied their religious rights not because the Ottomans cared about them in any way but because this would allow them better control over them. Regarding how well Cypriots were treated by the Ottomans, all I know is that were over 25 revolutions in Cyprus during the 308 years that the island remained under their rule. In some cases Christians and Muslims revolted together (I had a book with details on this somewhere). 3 centuries wasted if I may add, where nothing really went forward. But aftr all, what place ever prospered under the rul of the Ottomans?

O.

[gabaston]

what places prospered under the ottomans?

the places where they keep writing the books you keep buying.

equally it could be asked which countries prospered when they left.
The Balkans? SURE didnt that vacuum trigger WW1? result a million more deaths than any empire inflicted. Does anyone ever quote that, oh no just how barbaric the Os were

And after vacating arabia to the Brits and French what have we now? - oh yes that little matter of the eternal Jewish Arab conflict, no big cheese really.

You just keep taking the western propaganda that still hovers from the british - french rival empire days, mix it up with the stuff they churned out in ww1 and swollow every mouthful with your own sugar.

Sure the Ottoman Empire wasnt a kind benefactor but which empire was?
It was all relative to each era and conditions, They all collected their taxes they all put down rebellions (see Romans v Spartacus n Co), to say that any empire was this or that is a nonsense.

can you please drop this empire thing now, a line was drawn under that when the brits took over, a further line was then drawn under it again in 1960. Both of these events coincided with new legal constitutions, when we find another legal constitution hopefully we can draw a line under the present period too. Hopefully one that will last.