Cyprus-Forum.com

[erolz]

Still my complain exists though.We heard nothing from the majority of TC members...

Maybe we do not wish to give away our negotiating position?

[Alexandros Lordos]

Still my complain exists though.We heard nothing from the majority of TC members...

Maybe we do not wish to give away our negotiating position?

Erol, are you half-GC by any chance? Have you checked your lineage?



Apologies for the irrelevant one-liner, couldn't help myself. I'll moderate it out in a while

[turkcyp]

deleted by the author...

[MicAtCyp]

1.Maintenance of the existing system of "guarantees" and the "existing" treaty of alliance.The idea that Turkey should guarantee the TC State is being discussable.

2.Permanent military presence of Turkey in Cyprus.

3.Maintenance of Turkey’s intervention "rights" in Cyprus.

4.Absolute (complete) political equality.

5.Complete adherence and safeguarding of the principles of bizonality and bicommunality.

6.Virgin birth (the new state of affairs will not develop as a result of an evolution of the existing RoC.)

7.No negotiations within the framework of the EU.No EU involvement in the negotiations.

8.Economic assistance (financial aid?) and guarantees for its implementation.Lifting of the so-called "isolation."

9.Exercising of arbitration by the Secretary general, no to loose deadlines.The negotiations to remain within the parameters of the existing plan.

10.The minimum possible changes and if there is no agreement, a guarantee for the lifting of the TC community’s "isolation."

11.Compensations for the degradation of TC properties since 1963.

12.Compensation to the TC community for the loss of benefits since the 1st of May 2004, when the RoC joined the EU.

After reading the demands of the Tr/Tc side I am totally disappointed.

1,2,3:Maintenance of the existing treaties of guarantees is like telling us they are willing to sell Cyprus for the interests of Turkey and UK (on exchange of course of UKs support for their demands).Very patriotic indeed!Why I can understand a transitional period for their protection by Turkey I cannot understand why the presence od Turkey here should be for ever.

4.Absolute political equality. This is like equating the 18% with the 82%. It is share of 50-50 in everything that means take but not in everything that means give or pay! How about then setting our own demand that the only status we can accept is that of a simple minority?

5.The actually want 2 separate states.

6.Virgin birth is the first step towards eventual partition.

7.This means forget about human rights and democracy.Return to the middle ages.

8.I am wondering from whom they demand to give them guarantees for economic assistance, and with what money those who need to be compensated will be compensated in the end.

9.Yeah right, because they know he is a pawn of the Americans who will once again satisfy everything they want and satisfy the GCs on nothing.

10.In other words if the negotiations fail they want everything except recognition.And what will the GCs get in return? Nothing again...

11.Fine. And who will pay those compensations? And what about the degrading of GC properties from 1974 until today? If they accept to pay us that compensation sure no problem we will pay them too.

12.How about paying us compensation for accessing the whole Cyprus in the EU and not just the free areas? How about asking Turkey to pay them compensation for the fact that according to EU the aquis is suspended from application in the occupied areas as from 1/5/04? Insanity has no limits....

Forget it man.The TrRTC side wants either partition or the first step towards partition by just giving a small part of the land back. We are not interested for such a solution.I am really wondering what I am doing in this forum.The intentions are clear.They don't want a solution.


NB. What disapoints me even more is these demands are not in line with what the ordinary TCs in this forum seem to want...

[-mikkie2-]

NB. What disapoints me even more is these demands are not in line with what the ordinary TCs in this forum seem to want...

Re MicAtCyp. Poses fores na ta poume?

The political and military elite of Turkey and TC politicians do not want anything to do with us. The only thing they are interested is to get their state and for us to pay for its upkeep. I mean, we all thought Talat was a moderate TC that wanted reunification. Now it seems he has turned out worse than Denktas. And now they seem to be taking a leaf out of Israels book and erecting a 6ft wall between us and them. We are doomed if we are up against this mentality.

[MicAtCyp]

I do not understand what you understand from that paragraph. What I understand from that paragraph is that Feeral government and constitutional states has separate jurisdictional areas and separate powers, and in those separate jurisdictional areas and separate powers there are no hierarchy.

He,he,he exactly! The Anan Plan was not a Federation, it was 3 completely separate states.It was a loose confederation! In federations the Federal Government and the constituent states have a lot of identical fields of excercising their power and in all Federations the laws of the Federal Government have superior hierarchy over those of the Constituent states! The Federal Government may even intervene and enforce it's own law over the law of any of the states....

[Alexandros Lordos]

In federations the Federal Government and the constituent states have a lot of identical fields of excercising their power and in all Federations the laws of the Federal Government have superior hierarchy over those of the Constituent states! The Federal Government may even intervene and enforce it's own law over the law of any of the states....

MicAtCyp, can you give some concrete examples of what you have described above?

[MicAtCyp]

Turkcyp,

Regarding the matter of the way of forming a Federation, still you did not answer my question.Give me an example of a Federation formed the way you describe which did not turn up to be a conFederation.

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Mikkie,

Indeed phile mou how many times should we repeat the same things? I agree completely with you.

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can you give some concrete examples of what you have described above?

In most Federations matters of defense and foreign policy belong to the center whereas the states may also have international roles even sign agreements with other countries.Suppose now one state agreement is contradictory to the foreign policy or the defence policy of the center.Constitutionally it is valid as the constitution allowes that. If the constitution says there is no hierarchy of the laws of the Center (as per Anan Plan) then we will obviously end up to a system of anarchy....

When I said that the fields of authority overlap, I did not mean legally/constitutionally but in practice.One example: Federal law does not allow the use of personal data .A cerain state allows Banks to exchange personal data when they are asked for loans.Now assuming the constitution says nothing about it, then the first question arising is whether that matter concerns the center or the state? From one aspect that of civil rights it concerns the center, from another aspect "how to run the Banks" it concerns the state. So unless the law of the center preempts there is nothing the center can do. I am not sure if this is a good example because to find good examples one has to study various legal cases of real events.However one that comes to my mind right now (if we consider the EU a sort of Federation) is the recent decision of Brussesls to encourage and subsidise the growing of cannabis, which caused our local officials total panic. Yet there is nothing they can do...

[turkcyp]

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[turkcyp]

deleted by the author...