Cyprus-Forum.com

[GeorgeV97qaue]

The solution of complicated issues r complicated too and if u sincerely wish to solve them u need to work hard on a complicated solution plan with a dialectic perspective. U have no sufficient IQ for this?

Don't you read what is posted before writing more drivel?

It doesn't help that Turkey's actions have made the problem more and more and more complicated. And this suggests, to anyone with a sufficient IQ, that it's never really wanted a solution.

Yeah... it was Greece and GC administration that always wanted a solution... They told us choose between minority status, Enosis or bugger off to wherever we want. No need to mention international plots, hostile actions of GC national front against Turkey and TCs Anyway I don't expect a non-dialectic, jabber wocky mind like u to think dialectic.

Are you trying to say the TC's have no blame? What the fu@k is wrong with the TC's. You are as much to blame for the current situation as we are. So stop playing the innocent party. TMT spings to mind. Backing the Brits when we aere fighting for independance.

List goeds on TMT bombing TC's then blaming GC's.

[YFred]

The solution of complicated issues r complicated too and if u sincerely wish to solve them u need to work hard on a complicated solution plan with a dialectic perspective. U have no sufficient IQ for this?

Don't you read what is posted before writing more drivel?

It doesn't help that Turkey's actions have made the problem more and more and more complicated. And this suggests, to anyone with a sufficient IQ, that it's never really wanted a solution.

Yeah... it was Greece and GC administration that always wanted a solution... They told us choose between minority status, Enosis or bugger off to wherever we want. No need to mention international plots, hostile actions of GC national front against Turkey and TCs Anyway I don't expect a non-dialectic, jabber wocky mind like u to think dialectic.

Are you trying to say the TC's have no blame? What the fu@k is wrong with the TC's. You are as much to blame for the current situation as we are. So stop playing the innocent party. TMT spings to mind. Backing the Brits when we aere fighting for independance.

List goeds on TMT bombing TC's then blaming GC's.

As you said, both guilty as each other. But yet somehow, after 1963, the idea of untouchables running around with the full backing of the official government killing innocent civilians as well as the president plotting the downfall of the republic and giving it to some unmentionable strange state takes it to a new level of badness.

[insan]

The solution of complicated issues r complicated too and if u sincerely wish to solve them u need to work hard on a complicated solution plan with a dialectic perspective. U have no sufficient IQ for this?

Don't you read what is posted before writing more drivel?

It doesn't help that Turkey's actions have made the problem more and more and more complicated. And this suggests, to anyone with a sufficient IQ, that it's never really wanted a solution.

Yeah... it was Greece and GC administration that always wanted a solution... They told us choose between minority status, Enosis or bugger off to wherever we want. No need to mention international plots, hostile actions of GC national front against Turkey and TCs Anyway I don't expect a non-dialectic, jabber wocky mind like u to think dialectic.

Are you trying to say the TC's have no blame? What the fu@k is wrong with the TC's. You are as much to blame for the current situation as we are. So stop playing the innocent party. TMT spings to mind. Backing the Brits when we aere fighting for independance.

List goeds on TMT bombing TC's then blaming GC's.

I've always emphisized that mainly the 2 communities r to blame for both the current situation and past 50+ years.

Although the circumstances of Cyprus(stability in our region too) has never been suitable for a solution of Cyprus problem; I believe that if we had some advanceguards with high IQ, noble spirit, highly knowledged etc. instead of illiterate, self-seeker leaderships the problem could have been decades ago.

As for ur so-called independence fight which u were blindly running behind a well known fascist leader Grivas; it was aimed to unite Cyprus with then the fascist Greek regime that leftists and ethnic minorities had no chance to survive.

EOKA struggle was a struggle Cyprus for Hellenic national fascists.

[cymart]

They would have found a way out of this mess years ago.Loucas Charalambous wrote an article in last Sundays Cyprus Mail in which he cited DISY member Panayiotis Demetriou for recently speaking about the culture of 'symferontologi' which has developed in Cypriot society and that the majority of people here do not want any change to the status-quo because they have come to believe that it would damage their personal interests, even if that also means living with all the risks which no solution and partition involve!He even says that refugees are the same because they are afraid that any solution involving the return of their property might deny them the right to claim the money which the government offered for housing allowances etc. in recent years,probably presuming this was more than they could sell their property for!This culture has been nurtered by all the rejectionists and others who oppose a solution for various reasons and if Christophias is ever going to win a referendum he needs to start informing people about how everyone will be better off financially and forget all the political stuff,which most people neither understand nor care about!As Clerides always warned,the passage of time will only serve to cement the de-facto situation on the ground and make it ever harder to change...

[Acikgoz]

Mainland settlers was touted as a problem: There are no problems, only solutions. The situation was borne about by both sides. Need for responsibility to be taken.

If the immigration of Turks from the mainland is you issue, then can we please disect it to get a clearer understanding of the problem.
What does mainland Turks that have settled in Cyprus mean?
I'd espouse the following considerations:
1. The maintainence of the ethnically Turkish footprint on the island (not growth mind you, given the sizeable exodos of TCs that have left given the isolation and all its implications) requires the accommodation in a single unitary state a larger non-Greek ethnicity than would have been possible if only outbound ethnic Turks and no inbound ones.
2. The allocation of land that prior to 1983 was not distributed to then external interests, there-by meaning less land to be allocated. Given the Evkaf land and Church land there really is enough for everyone to just get along (unless it is the one that has the most when they die is declared the winner).
3. Further development of agriculture on the north of the island.
4. Foreign investment and business promotion that was otherwise stagnant within the isolated North.
5. People that have made their lives in a new country, they naturally will tend to prefer the status quo.
6. Big picture policies of mature countries with immigrants is one they have to tackle all the time. There is no clear cut verdict on right or wrong, but being TC and feeling comfortable with all nationalities incl. GCs I view it as live and let live.
7. Different outlooks - impact on society: The cultural similatities/differences between Greeks and Turks vs Lituanians and Spanish. Where do you realistically make the comparison, is the comparison aribtrary depending upon your political persuasion. On the Hitler vs Ghandi scales (forgive the extreme but want to be clear) does the political persuasion over-ride the human persuasion.
8. Persons of varied nationalities are rarely a problem, however, the extremists that are found in all societies which seek and exploit differences are.

[bill cobbett]

At the risk of getting back of thread ...

This five party approach. We have of course been there before, at the back end of 1959. Shouldn't we learn just a little from history?

Do we really want the Unholy Trinity of the Guarantor Powers arranging things for their own advantage, their own national interests, again?

[Get Real!]

Where's political equality of 2 communities then?

Where it always was… up Jack's arse picking gooseberries!

It is crystal clear that Chris considers TCs as a community but not GCs as a community.

Tell us something we don't know.

[Jerry]

Mainland settlers was touted as a problem: There are no problems, only solutions. The situation was borne about by both sides. Need for responsibility to be taken.

If the immigration of Turks from the mainland is you issue, then can we please disect it to get a clearer understanding of the problem.
What does mainland Turks that have settled in Cyprus mean?
I'd espouse the following considerations:
1. The maintainence of the ethnically Turkish footprint on the island (not growth mind you, given the sizeable exodos of TCs that have left given the isolation and all its implications) requires the accommodation in a single unitary state a larger non-Greek ethnicity than would have been possible if only outbound ethnic Turks and no inbound ones.
2. The allocation of land that prior to 1983 was not distributed to then external interests, there-by meaning less land to be allocated. Given the Evkaf land and Church land there really is enough for everyone to just get along (unless it is the one that has the most when they die is declared the winner).
3. Further development of agriculture on the north of the island.
4. Foreign investment and business promotion that was otherwise stagnant within the isolated North.
5. People that have made their lives in a new country, they naturally will tend to prefer the status quo.
6. Big picture policies of mature countries with immigrants is one they have to tackle all the time. There is no clear cut verdict on right or wrong, but being TC and feeling comfortable with all nationalities incl. GCs I view it as live and let live.
7. Different outlooks - impact on society: The cultural similatities/differences between Greeks and Turks vs Lituanians and Spanish. Where do you realistically make the comparison, is the comparison aribtrary depending upon your political persuasion. On the Hitler vs Ghandi scales (forgive the extreme but want to be clear) does the political persuasion over-ride the human persuasion.
8. Persons of varied nationalities are rarely a problem, however, the extremists that are found in all societies which seek and exploit differences are.

It's all very well to say that settlers have in fact replaced departing Turkish Cypriots; in that case I suggest they are allocated TC property rather than that of the Greek Cypriots. Similarly if Turkey wants to encourage others (carpetbaggers) to settle they too should be allocated TC or Evkaf land. This would maintain the ethnic ratios but it would mean, of course, that few British TCs would be able to reclaim their ancestral homes.

[Get Real!]

Political and social realities, histories etc dictate that Cyprus is a special case.

There's no such thing as a “special case” as there is only ONE set of international rules.

Still you have to come down to realities which is why the bi-communal/bi-zonal is a must. Special status is essential.

Nonsense.

[Jerry]

At the risk of getting back of thread ...

This five party approach. We have of course been there before, at the back end of 1959. Shouldn't we learn just a little from history?

Do we really want the Unholy Trinity of the Guarantor Powers arranging things for their own advantage, their own national interests, again?

But it was a three party approach in practice Bill. This would be the ideal opportunity to tell the unholy trinity to mind their own business. The UK and to a lesser extent Greece, have stood back from the Cyprus Problem - certainly compared to the old days. Now is the time for them to let go.

We are going to have to agree to disagree on this, otherwise

I'll see you in Court!