Cyprus-Forum.com

[insan]

The way I saw it, TMT protected the enclaves from 63 onwards with the TCs surrounded from all sides. We had to cross countless crossing checks to get anywhere not that different to what the Palestinians are suffering today under Israel. Are you seriously saying that what TMT did and what Eoka did amount to the same thing?
You must be furkin jokin man.

Of course that's the way you saw it.. Turks tend to see everything in their own special way, which always happen to be different to how the rest of the world sees things.. here we go again..

Turkey set up the TMT terrorist group in 1957, 3 years before the 1960 agreements, and BEFORE ANY intercommunal violence took place. The stated aim of TMT was to prove that Greek and Turkish Cypriots could not co-exist and thus achieve partition.

The FIRST EVER intercommunal killings were those of 8 Gr-Cypriots in Kondemenos, by TMT, in 1958. I CHALLENGE you or any Turk here to contradict this with an earlier example. Denktash, a leader of TMT, admitted that TMT BOMBED TURKISH CYPRIOTS and then blamed it on Gr-Cypriots to cause violence. Also, TMT KILLED MANY TURKISH CYPRIOTS who would not follow her orders to isolate themselves from Gr-Cypriots, including many journalists.

The following is from the Tr-Cypriot newspaper Africa (12.02.03):

"Subtitle: How clashes started

After a bomb against the Information Office of the Turkish Consulate, on 12 June 1958 British security forces arrested 8 Greek Cypriots at Kondemenos village and transported them to the nearest Turkish Cypriot village Gunyeli, about 10 kilometres, and left them free. By order of TMT these Greek Cypriots were massacred by Turkish Cypriots. This was the first incident whereby blood was shed between the two communities. This massacre has been committed with the intention that the Greek Cypriots will retaliate. Behind this provocative murders there were people whom Denktas called "some of our friends". Mr Denktas admitted during statements to a British television that TMT was responsible for the bombing incident". "

If the problem was started in 1958, what was happening between the years 1955-1958?

Independence fight of EOKA to unite Cyprus with Greece?

Yes, the intercommunal problem was started in 1958, BY TMT

Before then, there was a fight against the British occupation and for self-determination..

Hmmm... Didn't u know that how much GC community had self-determination right as much TC community had self-determination right?

Being the outnumbering community and having a longer historical past in Cyprus don't make u the only one entitled for self-determination right.

[Tony-4497]

The way I saw it, TMT protected the enclaves from 63 onwards with the TCs surrounded from all sides. We had to cross countless crossing checks to get anywhere not that different to what the Palestinians are suffering today under Israel. Are you seriously saying that what TMT did and what Eoka did amount to the same thing?
You must be furkin jokin man.

Of course that's the way you saw it.. Turks tend to see everything in their own special way, which always happen to be different to how the rest of the world sees things.. here we go again..

Turkey set up the TMT terrorist group in 1957, 3 years before the 1960 agreements, and BEFORE ANY intercommunal violence took place. The stated aim of TMT was to prove that Greek and Turkish Cypriots could not co-exist and thus achieve partition.

The FIRST EVER intercommunal killings were those of 8 Gr-Cypriots in Kondemenos, by TMT, in 1958. I CHALLENGE you or any Turk here to contradict this with an earlier example. Denktash, a leader of TMT, admitted that TMT BOMBED TURKISH CYPRIOTS and then blamed it on Gr-Cypriots to cause violence. Also, TMT KILLED MANY TURKISH CYPRIOTS who would not follow her orders to isolate themselves from Gr-Cypriots, including many journalists.

The following is from the Tr-Cypriot newspaper Africa (12.02.03):

"Subtitle: How clashes started

After a bomb against the Information Office of the Turkish Consulate, on 12 June 1958 British security forces arrested 8 Greek Cypriots at Kondemenos village and transported them to the nearest Turkish Cypriot village Gunyeli, about 10 kilometres, and left them free. By order of TMT these Greek Cypriots were massacred by Turkish Cypriots. This was the first incident whereby blood was shed between the two communities. This massacre has been committed with the intention that the Greek Cypriots will retaliate. Behind this provocative murders there were people whom Denktas called "some of our friends". Mr Denktas admitted during statements to a British television that TMT was responsible for the bombing incident". "

If the problem was started in 1958, what was happening between the years 1955-1958?

Independence fight of EOKA to unite Cyprus with Greece?

Yes, the intercommunal problem was started in 1958, BY TMT

Before then, there was a fight against the British occupation and for self-determination..

Hmmm... Didn't u know that how much GC community had self-determination right as much TC community had self-determination right?

Being the outnumbering community and having a longer historical past in Cyprus don't make u the only one entitled for self-determination right.

Throughout the world, colonies were revolting and demanding self-determination.. this self-determination was of course being decided by the majority at referendum..

ESPECIALLY in the case of Cyprus, the 18% TC minority was spread throughout the country i.e. there was not a single area where TC were a majority and they had no historical claim to any specific part of Cyprus.. (e.g. as in the case of Kurdistan or Czechoslovakia or even Yugoslavia). What if ethnic Indians, who are say 15% of the UK population, decide they want to set up a new Indian state on a large chunk of the UK? Would you support this?

Accordingly, it was only natural that the vast 82% majority would make the strategic decision for the long term future.. that's what democracy dictates (without this meaning that the minority should be threatened in any way, deprived of individual rights etc etc).

The "political equality of the communities" was an artificial making of the British that came much later (did not exist in 55-59) in line with their "divide & rule" policy.. it is for this reason that even 50 YEARS later, both GCs and TCs instead of jointly trying to kick the colonial leftovers (i.e. British Bases) out of Cyprus, are kissing the Brits a*se, each begging them to take their side in the conflict.

[insan]

The way I saw it, TMT protected the enclaves from 63 onwards with the TCs surrounded from all sides. We had to cross countless crossing checks to get anywhere not that different to what the Palestinians are suffering today under Israel. Are you seriously saying that what TMT did and what Eoka did amount to the same thing?
You must be furkin jokin man.

Of course that's the way you saw it.. Turks tend to see everything in their own special way, which always happen to be different to how the rest of the world sees things.. here we go again..

Turkey set up the TMT terrorist group in 1957, 3 years before the 1960 agreements, and BEFORE ANY intercommunal violence took place. The stated aim of TMT was to prove that Greek and Turkish Cypriots could not co-exist and thus achieve partition.

The FIRST EVER intercommunal killings were those of 8 Gr-Cypriots in Kondemenos, by TMT, in 1958. I CHALLENGE you or any Turk here to contradict this with an earlier example. Denktash, a leader of TMT, admitted that TMT BOMBED TURKISH CYPRIOTS and then blamed it on Gr-Cypriots to cause violence. Also, TMT KILLED MANY TURKISH CYPRIOTS who would not follow her orders to isolate themselves from Gr-Cypriots, including many journalists.

The following is from the Tr-Cypriot newspaper Africa (12.02.03):

"Subtitle: How clashes started

After a bomb against the Information Office of the Turkish Consulate, on 12 June 1958 British security forces arrested 8 Greek Cypriots at Kondemenos village and transported them to the nearest Turkish Cypriot village Gunyeli, about 10 kilometres, and left them free. By order of TMT these Greek Cypriots were massacred by Turkish Cypriots. This was the first incident whereby blood was shed between the two communities. This massacre has been committed with the intention that the Greek Cypriots will retaliate. Behind this provocative murders there were people whom Denktas called "some of our friends". Mr Denktas admitted during statements to a British television that TMT was responsible for the bombing incident". "

If the problem was started in 1958, what was happening between the years 1955-1958?

Independence fight of EOKA to unite Cyprus with Greece?

Yes, the intercommunal problem was started in 1958, BY TMT

Before then, there was a fight against the British occupation and for self-determination..

Hmmm... Didn't u know that how much GC community had self-determination right as much TC community had self-determination right?

Being the outnumbering community and having a longer historical past in Cyprus don't make u the only one entitled for self-determination right.

Throughout the world, colonies were revolting and demanding self-determination.. this self-determination was of course being decided by the majority at referendum..

ESPECIALLY in the case of Cyprus, the 18% TC minority was spread throughout the country i.e. there was not a single area where TC were a majority and they had no historical claim to any specific part of Cyprus.. (e.g. as in the case of Kurdistan or Czechoslovakia or even Yugoslavia). What if ethnic Indians, who are say 15% of the UK population, decide they want to set up a new Indian state on a large chunk of the UK? Would you support this?

Accordingly, it was only natural that the vast 82% majority would make the strategic decision for the long term future.. that's what democracy dictates (without this meaning that the minority should be threatened in any way, deprived of individual rights etc etc).

The "political equality of the communities" was an artificial making of the British that came much later (did not exist in 55-59) in line with their "divide & rule" policy.. it is for this reason that even 50 YEARS later, both GCs and TCs instead of jointly trying to kick the colonial leftovers (i.e. British Bases) out of Cyprus, are kissing the Brits a*se, each begging them to take their side in the conflict.

We would all wish ur national front never wanted Enosis and majority rule. These were/are both unacceptable to TCs. Even though u were the outnumbering ethnic group and TC population wasn't concentrated in a sepecific part of Cyprus we had to fight to survive.

The circumstances of Cyprus(geo-politics) supported our cause too. What Brits did was not a divide and rule policy. We the TCs voluntarily and even wishfully took side with Brits and in the meantime Brits took side with us because we had common interests. Where's divide and rule; as if we were united under the Ottoman Rule?

[Acikgoz]

I read all the facts re the TMT you keep posting, are there any you'd like to share regarding EOKA A or B? Or are their actions the work of heros? That must be it given there are monuments in the South enshrining, paying homage to their actions?
What about the Akritas Plan? The goal of eliminating a people. Papad, your previous elected leader, if translated to the modern context was the equivalent of Khalid Sheik Mohammed, only uglier. What's up with that?
What about the size of the movements, TMT or EOKA A and EOKA B, which had the significantly larger presence? Who's aim was it to destroy the other peoples and drive them out of the country?
We keep hearing about Turkey's involvement but what about the soldiers and guns from Greece that found their way onto the island long before Turkey got involved in 74.
Who's aim was Enosis - the union with Greece?
The South has both privately and publicly endorsed the actions of terrorism and genocide, there is to date no shame or remorse having been shown.
KKK has nothing on Greek Cypriots, not back then and certainly even not now.
Amazed, amazed, amazed that not even a few GCs writing on this forum do not have the maturity to take to task the stone throwing glass house living freaks.
As always, let's stay apart. The GC wise will never outgrow the evil indoctrinated in the masses!!!

[Tony-4497]

The way I saw it, TMT protected the enclaves from 63 onwards with the TCs surrounded from all sides. We had to cross countless crossing checks to get anywhere not that different to what the Palestinians are suffering today under Israel. Are you seriously saying that what TMT did and what Eoka did amount to the same thing?
You must be furkin jokin man.

Of course that's the way you saw it.. Turks tend to see everything in their own special way, which always happen to be different to how the rest of the world sees things.. here we go again..

Turkey set up the TMT terrorist group in 1957, 3 years before the 1960 agreements, and BEFORE ANY intercommunal violence took place. The stated aim of TMT was to prove that Greek and Turkish Cypriots could not co-exist and thus achieve partition.

The FIRST EVER intercommunal killings were those of 8 Gr-Cypriots in Kondemenos, by TMT, in 1958. I CHALLENGE you or any Turk here to contradict this with an earlier example. Denktash, a leader of TMT, admitted that TMT BOMBED TURKISH CYPRIOTS and then blamed it on Gr-Cypriots to cause violence. Also, TMT KILLED MANY TURKISH CYPRIOTS who would not follow her orders to isolate themselves from Gr-Cypriots, including many journalists.

The following is from the Tr-Cypriot newspaper Africa (12.02.03):

"Subtitle: How clashes started

After a bomb against the Information Office of the Turkish Consulate, on 12 June 1958 British security forces arrested 8 Greek Cypriots at Kondemenos village and transported them to the nearest Turkish Cypriot village Gunyeli, about 10 kilometres, and left them free. By order of TMT these Greek Cypriots were massacred by Turkish Cypriots. This was the first incident whereby blood was shed between the two communities. This massacre has been committed with the intention that the Greek Cypriots will retaliate. Behind this provocative murders there were people whom Denktas called "some of our friends". Mr Denktas admitted during statements to a British television that TMT was responsible for the bombing incident". "

If the problem was started in 1958, what was happening between the years 1955-1958?

Independence fight of EOKA to unite Cyprus with Greece?

Yes, the intercommunal problem was started in 1958, BY TMT

Before then, there was a fight against the British occupation and for self-determination..

Hmmm... Didn't u know that how much GC community had self-determination right as much TC community had self-determination right?

Being the outnumbering community and having a longer historical past in Cyprus don't make u the only one entitled for self-determination right.

Throughout the world, colonies were revolting and demanding self-determination.. this self-determination was of course being decided by the majority at referendum..

ESPECIALLY in the case of Cyprus, the 18% TC minority was spread throughout the country i.e. there was not a single area where TC were a majority and they had no historical claim to any specific part of Cyprus.. (e.g. as in the case of Kurdistan or Czechoslovakia or even Yugoslavia). What if ethnic Indians, who are say 15% of the UK population, decide they want to set up a new Indian state on a large chunk of the UK? Would you support this?

Accordingly, it was only natural that the vast 82% majority would make the strategic decision for the long term future.. that's what democracy dictates (without this meaning that the minority should be threatened in any way, deprived of individual rights etc etc).

The "political equality of the communities" was an artificial making of the British that came much later (did not exist in 55-59) in line with their "divide & rule" policy.. it is for this reason that even 50 YEARS later, both GCs and TCs instead of jointly trying to kick the colonial leftovers (i.e. British Bases) out of Cyprus, are kissing the Brits a*se, each begging them to take their side in the conflict.

We would all wish ur national front never wanted Enosis and majority rule. These were/are both unacceptable to TCs. Even though u were the outnumbering ethnic group and TC population wasn't concentrated in a sepecific part of Cyprus we had to fight to survive.

The circumstances of Cyprus(geo-politics) supported our cause too. What Brits did was not a divide and rule policy. We the TCs voluntarily and even wishfully took side with Brits and in the meantime Brits took side with us because we had common interests. Where's divide and rule; as if we were united under the Ottoman Rule?

The fact that "majority rule" was unacceptable to TCs is the root of the problem we are all faced with today. I am not saying that GC actions did not contribute to the mistrust.. and I accept that the stated goal of Enosis was completely wrong. The goal should have been independence, in a unitary state without "communities", guarantors etc etc.. Had this been done, in combination with fully respecting TC individual rights, there is a chance that today we would have been a peaceful and prosperous country.

Makarios's signing of the 1960 agreements that established TCs as a community with super-privileges and Turkey as a guarantor was the biggest mistake in Cyprus history (as big as the idiotic Eoka B actions and coup that followed).

[YFred]

And his second mistake was setting up of the Akritas plan to first destroy the republic which would then lead him to his third and worst mistake which was enosis. Look on the bright side, at least we stopped him making a complete fool of himself.

[Tony-4497]

I read all the facts re the TMT you keep posting, are there any you'd like to share regarding EOKA A or B? Or are their actions the work of heros? That must be it given there are monuments in the South enshrining, paying homage to their actions?
What about the Akritas Plan? The goal of eliminating a people. Papad, your previous elected leader, if translated to the modern context was the equivalent of Khalid Sheik Mohammed, only uglier. What's up with that?
What about the size of the movements, TMT or EOKA A and EOKA B, which had the significantly larger presence? Who's aim was it to destroy the other peoples and drive them out of the country?
We keep hearing about Turkey's involvement but what about the soldiers and guns from Greece that found their way onto the island long before Turkey got involved in 74.
Who's aim was Enosis - the union with Greece?
The South has both privately and publicly endorsed the actions of terrorism and genocide, there is to date no shame or remorse having been shown.
KKK has nothing on Greek Cypriots, not back then and certainly even not now.
Amazed, amazed, amazed that not even a few GCs writing on this forum do not have the maturity to take to task the stone throwing glass house living freaks.
As always, let's stay apart. The GC wise will never outgrow the evil indoctrinated in the masses!!!

This discussion has been had too many times here.. boring.. Eoka B were traitors who killed many more GCs than TCs and ran a coup (together with the Greek Junta) against Makarios, who was elected by 97% of GCs!! They are treated as such (traitors) by the RoC and the GC people.

There was no "genocide" against TC (to look up the meaning of the term, check what Turks did to Armenians..). If a genocide/ Akritas plan as you said, had been in place, there would be few TCs left in the world..

The FACT is that Turkish-state-sponsored TMT STARTED the inter-communal killings, TCs sided with the British against GCs, and a number of people died from both sides.. numbers of those killed were not that far apart (and both were miniscule compared to the murders of GCs committed by the Turkish army in the sixties and in 1974).

As for EOKA A, yes they are treated as heroes because they are the ones who fought against the British and achieved our independence and the formation of the RoC.

[YFred]

Tony, Eoka-B was not a new organisation, but members of eoka, which is why they were called untouchables by your president. So lets not pretend otherwise.

[insan]

tony wrote:

As for EOKA A, yes they are treated as heroes because they are the ones who fought against the British and achieved our independence and the formation of the RoC.

However independence was not their goal and Grivas, the leader of EOKA was unpleasant with the outcome... even became hostile to Makarios bcz he accepted the 60s treaties and agreements..

After the formation of RoC, Makarios was being pushed by Grivas and Grivasites to collaborate achieving Enosis. Even Yorgacis and his Organization had a plan to create an excuse to reinvite Grivas to Cyprus and start a new struggle to achieve Enosis.

As a matter of a fact, Grivas returned Cyprus in 1964. he commanded the illegal National Guard, caused more blood shed and with US pressure on Greek government he was called back to Greece, in 1967.

Grivas is the most significant element of Cyprus problem... I sometimes think that had there not been a man like Grivas, the course of the solution of Cyprus problem would have been much more peaceful.

Although Grivas is a product of the social and political circumstances of then Greece; it is almost obvious to me that there weren't any other Hellenes as capable as him to carry out such a merciless struggle with a very strong nationalist passion.

[Get Real!]

The South has both privately and publicly endorsed the actions of terrorism and genocide, there is to date no shame or remorse having been shown.

Oh no... it's the genocide card again!

KKK has nothing on Greek Cypriots, not back then and certainly even not now.

Only if you say so...

As always, let's stay apart.

No can do I’m afraid because the WHOLE of Cyprus belongs to the RoC, so let's... pack your bags carpetbagger!