The Best Cyprus Community

Skip to content


Yugoslavia VS Cyprus

How can we solve it? (keep it civilized)

Postby Piratis » Sun Nov 15, 2009 4:49 am

insan wrote:
Sotos wrote:
insan wrote:
Sotos wrote:The difference is obvious you fool. Croats have been a MAJORITY in a territory which was known as "Croatia" for centuries! The same for all others. All these were separate regions of Yugoslavia. TCs are just a minority. They were never the majority in any part of Cyprus like Croats in Croatia. But your example would work for the Kurds in Turkey who are the majority in the Kurdistan region ;) Do you support an independent Kurdistan? ;)


So where were all those nearly 4 million people displaced, fool Sotos? :wink:

Kurds may transform Turkey into a Turkish-Kurdish federation and if they fail to carry out that federation they may have seperate states.

Would u support the same for TCs and GCs? :wink:


They were displaced from regions that they were the MINORITY, fool insan. Did you think that Croatia was formed on territory that Serbians were the majority? :lol: For example if your minority is displaced from Cyprus and send back to Turkey it would be a similar situation. Think twice about what you wish for ;) I support the same for all. Freedom to Cyprus AND to Kurdistan from the Turkish invaders!


So had majority of Ottomans concentrated on a part of Cyprus, 2 independent states in Cyprus won't be a problem for u, eh? :lol: :wink:


The Ottomans thought they would stay in Cyprus long enough to make the whole of it Turkish. Like they did with Asia Minor.

Do you think that if the Ottomans had managed to exterminate or make Muslim the majority of the population of Cyprus (say 82% Turks and 18% Cypriots) that they would agree for 2 states in Cyprus instead of making the whole of Cyprus part of Turkey? :roll:

Sorry insan, but the ethnic cleansing and genocide practices of your ancestors can not pass anymore. You managed to Turkify a lot of Christian/Greek territories with those methods in the past, but today is the 21st century not the middle ages, and you should realize that if you don't bring your mentality up to date and instead you continue to act as your barbarian ancestors did, then you will continue to suffer the consequences of your crimes and illegalities.
User avatar
Piratis
Moderator
Moderator
 
Posts: 12261
Joined: Tue Mar 09, 2004 11:08 pm

Postby insan » Sun Nov 15, 2009 3:28 pm

Demographics

Estimated ethnic map of Bosnia and Herzegovina in 2006.
Bosniaks

Croats

Image

SerbsMain articles: Demographics of Bosnia and Herzegovina and Demographic history of Bosnia and Herzegovina
Further information: Ethnic groups in Bosnia and Herzegovina, Religion in Bosnia and Herzegovina, and List of people from Bosnia and Herzegovina
Bosnia is home to three ethnic "constituent peoples": Bosniaks, Serbs and Croats. Tensions between the three constitutional peoples remain high and often provoke political disagreements. A Y-chromosome haplogroups study published in 2005 found that "three main groups of Bosnia-Herzegovina, in spite of some quantitative differences, share a large fraction of the same ancient gene pool distinctive for the Balkan area".[41]

According to the 1991 census, Bosnia and Herzegovina had a population of 4,377,033. Ethnically, 1,902,956 (43%) were Bosniak, 1,366,104 (31%) Serbs, and 760,852 (17%) Croats, with 242,682 (6%) Yugoslavs. The remaining 2% of the population - numbering 104,439 - consisted of various other ethnicities. According to 2000 data from the CIA World Factbook, Bosnia's largest ethnic groups are Bosniaks (48%), Serbs (37%) and Croats (14%).[42] There is a strong correlation between ethnic identity and religion in Bosnia and Herzegovina: Muslims constitute 45% of the population, Serb Orthodox 36%, Roman Catholics 15%, and other groups, including Jews and Protestants, 4%.[43]

Large population migrations during the Yugoslav wars in the 1990s have caused demographic shifts in the country. No census has been taken since 1991, and political disagreements have made it impossible to organize one. Nevertheless, a census has been planed for the year 2011. Since censuses are the only statistical, inclusive, and objective way to analyze demographics, almost all of the post-war data is simply an estimate. Most sources, however, estimate the population to be about four million, representing a decrease of 350,000 since 1991.
User avatar
insan
Main Contributor
Main Contributor
 
Posts: 9044
Joined: Mon Jun 30, 2003 11:33 pm
Location: Somewhere in ur network. ;]

Postby insan » Sun Nov 15, 2009 5:56 pm

Power Sharing or Partition?
History's Lessons for Keeping the Peace in Bosnia
Alan J. Kuperman
Assistant Professor
LBJ School of Public Affairs
University of Texas, Austin

April 12, 2006

Bosnia is not necessarily over, especially if we continue our current policy. Why is Bosnia even a question? Even though we are ten years past the Dayton accords, and there hasn't been civil war since 1995, three factors are important: 1) supreme political authority still in hands of unelected international official; 2) security still ensured by international peacekeepers, though the number have dropped; 3) Bosnia is still composed of two separate political entities, one a Serb republic and the other a Muslim-Croat federation, and they still disagree about whether Bosnia should remain two separate loosely linked entities, or whether they should be merged.

So Bosnia is still in an unsustainable limbo. Unsustainable because 1) very costly to the international community; 2) EU has this ongoing accession process with other Balkan states—but Bosnia can't join until we decide what Bosnia is; 3) we have impending final status negotiation for neighboring Kosovo, and if that final status is settled prior to Bosnia's, there could be uproar in Bosnia.

The fundamental question today is the same one since the early 1990s, involving why the war broke out, why it continued, how it was settled, why we have a continuing dispute, and why war might erupt again. The Muslims, who represented a near majority, wanted a unitary state. The Serbs, about 30% of population, have insisted that they want Serb political control over Serb territory, where Serbs are majority or large plurality.

I don't mean to be alarmist. I don't think war is inevitable. And I don't ignore the down sides of partition, including the problem of contagion. If the Bosnian Serbs get their own state, the Albanians in Macedonia, the Albanians in Kosovo, and other ethnic concentrations in the former Yugoslavia will demand the same right. There is danger of a domino effect here, which is why I don't support a hard partition of Bosnia. But there are clearly some major risks in the status quo. Nick Burns has been pushing to give the Muslims the unitary state they have been demanding, and take away what the Serbs want.

Five Options are on the table:

1. Coerced unification. This is what we're currently doing, and I've discussed the downsides. Backfires by prompting Serb nationalism and possibly renewal of war.

2. Partition de jure, Kauffmann solution, which I think has dangerous contagion effects.

3. Adjust borders. Hold an international conference for all of the Balkans. It has been proposed every few years for hundreds of years in this region, yet it has never prevented war. This is impossible.

4. Freeze the status quo (limbo). This is not terrible, but I don't think it is sustainable, especially with Kosovo final status coming up, which is going to raise questions in Bosnia.

5. Regional autonomy. It is close to de facto partition, without the prize of independence. It is a compromise solution. It is closer to the partition side, but avoids rewarding militants with independence. Indeed, this is the option that could have averted war in the first place – giving the Serbs the one thing they have wanted, strong autonomy – and also was the promise in the Dayton accords that managed to end the war. I think this could also serve as model for Kosovo. Serbia doesn't want Kosovo to get independence, and Russia could prevent this with a veto in the UN Security Council. Whereas if we have strong regional autonomy that solves the Bosnia problem, we can insist on the same deal to the Kosovo Albanians.

http://web.mit.edu/ssp/seminars/wed_arc ... perman.htm
User avatar
insan
Main Contributor
Main Contributor
 
Posts: 9044
Joined: Mon Jun 30, 2003 11:33 pm
Location: Somewhere in ur network. ;]

Postby insan » Sun Nov 15, 2009 6:22 pm

Image
User avatar
insan
Main Contributor
Main Contributor
 
Posts: 9044
Joined: Mon Jun 30, 2003 11:33 pm
Location: Somewhere in ur network. ;]

Postby Piratis » Mon Nov 16, 2009 3:02 am

And the point you are trying to make by presenting Bosnia is?

As the map of Bosnia clearly shows there are large parts of this country which have majority of different ethnic groups. This is not the same in Cyprus. In Cyprus the whole of the island has a Greek Cypriot majority.

In the map of Bosnia any territory with above 66% majority of one ethnicity is shown is deep red, deep green, or deep blue. If we would color Cyprus in the same way, then the whole of Cyprus would have a very very deep blue color, since at every part of Cyprus GCs are over 80% of the population.

http://www.anesi.com/rmap2.jpg

TCs are just a minority spread all over the island. Like the minorities that exist in every other country. They do not own any separate part of the island.
User avatar
Piratis
Moderator
Moderator
 
Posts: 12261
Joined: Tue Mar 09, 2004 11:08 pm

Postby Piratis » Mon Nov 16, 2009 3:45 am

Also note that in Bosnia no group forms a majority. Bosniaks are 48% (under 50%). In Cyprus there is a very clear majority of GCs with over 80% of the population.

The Bosniaks are just 30% more than the Serbians, Greek Cypriots are 450% more than Turkish Cypriots.
User avatar
Piratis
Moderator
Moderator
 
Posts: 12261
Joined: Tue Mar 09, 2004 11:08 pm

Postby Viewpoint » Mon Nov 16, 2009 10:06 pm

Piratis wrote:Also note that in Bosnia no group forms a majority. Bosniaks are 48% (under 50%). In Cyprus there is a very clear majority of GCs with over 80% of the population.

The Bosniaks are just 30% more than the Serbians, Greek Cypriots are 450% more than Turkish Cypriots.


Do they have a partnership agreement like the one signed by the GCs and TCs?
User avatar
Viewpoint
Leading Contributor
Leading Contributor
 
Posts: 25214
Joined: Sun Feb 20, 2005 2:48 pm
Location: Nicosia/Lefkosa

Postby insan » Mon Nov 16, 2009 10:47 pm

Piratis wrote:Also note that in Bosnia no group forms a majority. Bosniaks are 48% (under 50%). In Cyprus there is a very clear majority of GCs with over 80% of the population.

The Bosniaks are just 30% more than the Serbians, Greek Cypriots are 450% more than Turkish Cypriots.


In it's essential the problem is the same for the large ethnic groups of former Yugoslavia and 2 large ethnic groups of Cyprus.

- There weren't strong common interests uniting them in former Yugoslavia just like there weren't strong common interests uniting TCs and GCs in RoC.

- The 7 constituent states composed of various ethnic groups established former Yugoslav Federation like in Cyprus 2 large ethnic communities established RoC as 2 constituent ethnic groups.

- The constitution of Former Yugoslav Federation was not satisfactory for all constituent states and large ethnic groups like the constitution of RoC was not satisfactory for one of the large ethnic groups in Cyprus.

In it's essential there was only one difference and that is while western block encouraged the dissolution of FYR(u knw why), they encouraged/forced the unity of 2 large ethnic groups of Cyprus.

Why? For the sake of stability of NATO! They well aware of that Turco-Greco disputes threaten the stability of NATO... Some Greek-GC political groups(including diaspora and strong Hellenic lobby) used/abused their status in western block to take over whole of Cyprus.

This is neither acceptable to TCs nor Turkey!

The new shift of balance of the powers in Balkans, Middle East and cacauses now has begun to support TC-Turkish side to play the trumpcards they have, more efficiently.

A sincere reconciliation with GCs and Greeks seems almost impossible under the current circumstances because they still have considerable power to neutralize the attempts of TC-Turkish side regarding the solution of Cyprus problem.

However, in the first half of 2010, I'm almost sure of that they won't be able to neutralize/prevent the final diplomacy attack of TC-Turkish side regarding the solution of Cyprus problem.
User avatar
insan
Main Contributor
Main Contributor
 
Posts: 9044
Joined: Mon Jun 30, 2003 11:33 pm
Location: Somewhere in ur network. ;]

Postby Get Real! » Tue Nov 17, 2009 1:16 am

Viewpoint wrote:
Piratis wrote:Also note that in Bosnia no group forms a majority. Bosniaks are 48% (under 50%). In Cyprus there is a very clear majority of GCs with over 80% of the population.

The Bosniaks are just 30% more than the Serbians, Greek Cypriots are 450% more than Turkish Cypriots.


Do they have a partnership agreement like the one signed by the GCs and TCs?

The one you abandoned and declared null & void? :?

Keep entertaining us VP… :lol:
User avatar
Get Real!
Forum Addict
Forum Addict
 
Posts: 48333
Joined: Mon Feb 26, 2007 12:25 am
Location: Nicosia

Postby Get Real! » Tue Nov 17, 2009 1:18 am

insan wrote:In it's essential the problem is the same for the large ethnic groups of former Yugoslavia and 2 large ethnic groups of Cyprus.

The what ethnic groups of Cyprus? :lol:

Give it up dude because the only thing large is your stupidity! Image
User avatar
Get Real!
Forum Addict
Forum Addict
 
Posts: 48333
Joined: Mon Feb 26, 2007 12:25 am
Location: Nicosia

PreviousNext

Return to Cyprus Problem

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests