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Beware of Brits bearing "Gifts" ...

How can we solve it? (keep it civilized)

Postby Oracle » Tue Nov 24, 2009 4:08 pm

-- Britain will not stand in the way of a possible solution to Cyprus problem, visiting British Minister for Europe Chris Bryant said on Monday.

He added that London can discuss anything that would help ongoing efforts to solve the Cyprus problem, implying that Britain is ready to discuss the issue of guarantees.


Here is the RoC's Minister of Foreign Affairs answer to that:

Replying to a question about the issue of guarantees, Mr Kyprianou asserted: “I repeat that the position of the Cyprus Republic is that no guarantees are necessary. This is an obsolete system of the previous century to be exact. Today we are talking about a reunified Cyprus, a full member state of the European Union where the acquis communautaire is being implemented, and we do no longer see a reason for guarantees by third countries. EU membership is in itself adequate guarantee. I stress that since Britain is ready to contribute to the resolution of the Cyprus problem and to discuss this issue with the other two guarantor powers, we hope that when the time arrives we will have their support on this issue”.


http://www.moi.gov.cy/moi/pio/pio.nsf/A ... endocument

An end to the concept of guarantees?

The UK, as a fellow EU member, has no legs to stand on. Greece is 100% in agreement with Cyprus.

That leaves Turkey ....
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Postby Expatkiwi » Tue Nov 24, 2009 4:40 pm

SKI-preo wrote:Expat Kiwi congrats on NZ's progress to the world cup. I fly to NZ most months and prefer to Ski there. You have some very backward undemocratic and dark age views for someone from such a progressive and democratic nation as New Zealand. I'm curious how you got there. Maybe you have been around the Hill Billies of Arkansas too long. Are you in the KKK?

The "offer" of SBA land is a halfarsed attempt by the Brits to try to legitimize the SBA's as some commentators consider that the London and Zurich Agreements creating the SBA's may not hold water if tested say in the Hague or wherever. If a new Settlement is reached contemplating the land the Brits prose to hand over it will firmly re-establishes the SBA's occupying the slab of land the Brits propose to hold onto. Nice try.


No, I'm not in the KKK, and there are no hillbillies in my area. You really havde to go to Kentucky or Tennessee for that... Now, if you'll excuse me, I've got to go and put up a Confederate flag...
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Postby SKI-preo » Thu Nov 26, 2009 3:59 pm

Can New Zealand over come its bloody history?

[Quote:
Can Cyprus overcome its bloody history?

By Chris Summers
BBC News


More British soldiers were killed during the "Cyprus emergency" in the 1950s than have died in Iraq or Afghanistan. So why has it been forgotten and what hope is there of reuniting the island?



The British High Commissioner laid a wreath on behalf of the Queen
On Remembrance Sunday, about 500 relatives and veterans watched as a new memorial was unveiled in Kyrenia, in Turkish-occupied northern Cyprus, to recognise the 371 British servicemen who lost their lives on the island between 1956 and 1959.

The unveiling, and the laying of a wreath by the British High Commissioner, Peter Millett, sparked a diplomatic row, with President Demetris Christofias raising the matter when he met UK Prime Minister Gordon Brown a few days later.

One of the names on the memorial is Corporal Mervyn Whurr, 22, killed by a bomb on Kyrenia's Six Mile Beach in September 1956.

His sister, Barbara Hocking, from Millbrook in Cornwall, said: "My mum had a telegram saying he'd been injured, then she got another one saying he had an arm and a leg amputated. A few days later another telegram came saying he'd died."



He loved his football, he was full of fun, playing jokes and was very popular with his mates.

Margaret Moncur
Unlike those of troops killed in Afghanistan, his body, like those of most of the Cyprus casualties, was not flown home and lies in a cemetery at Wayne's Keep on the island.

Mrs Hocking was at the unveiling of the memorial, where she was joined by Margaret Moncur, whose brother 19-year-old Matt Neely, from Glasgow, was killed in 1956 by a bomb while doing his National Service.

Mrs Moncur said: "He loved his football, he was full of fun, playing jokes and was very popular with his mates.

"For some reason Cyprus has become a forgotten war."

The Cyprus High Commissioner to London, Alexandros Zenon, said the failure to consult the Cyprus government about the memorial was perceived as an "insult".


BRITISH MILITARY DEATHS
Cyprus (1955-1959) - 371
Afghanistan (2002 - 2009) - 235
Iraq (2003-2009) - 179


In pictures: Divided Nicosia
He said: "In principle we are not against a country honouring its soldiers who fell in service.

"The problem is that the memorial was built and unveiled in the occupied part of Cyprus. It could have been erected in the British sovereign base area.

"We also feel it's politically premature. I understand they want to honour them, but for Greek Cypriots the anti-colonial struggle is still a very sensitive issue."

In the late 1950s the British Empire was trying to cling on to the island, which remained a strategic location, especially around the time of the Suez crisis.

Greek Cypriot fighters belonging to an organisation called Eoka planted bombs and attacked British servicemen on and off duty.

Several civilians were also killed, including Catherine Cutliffe and her daughter Margaret who were shot while buying a wedding dress in Famagusta, although Eoka denied responsibility for that attack.



Greece's PM visits the graves of those killed fighting the British
Eventually in 1960 Cyprus was granted independence, but tensions between the Greek Cypriot majority and the Turkish Cypriot minority grew during the next decade.

In July 1974 a Greek nationalist group, Eoka-B, led by Nikos Sampson, carried out a coup backed by the military junta in power in Athens.

Sampson promised to unite Cyprus with Greece in so-called "enosis".

Turkey sent its army to the northern part of the island, ostensibly to protect Turkish Cypriots.

The idea of enosis evaporated and the moderate Archbishop Makarios returned to power.

But the Turkish Army has remained ever since and the island is still separated, with a UN buffer zone running right through the heart of Nicosia, the world's last remaining divided city.



Mr Christofias (left) and Mr Talat met last week for the latest round of talks.
In 2004 the United Nations came up with the Annan Plan - named after the then UN Secretary General Kofi Annan - which suggested a bi-zonal federated state.

But, although it was accepted by the Turkish Cypriots in a referendum, another poll in the south rejected it.

Cyprus was then admitted into the EU, which many Turkish Cypriots opposed believing it removed an incentive for the Greek Cypriot side to reach a solution.

But fresh momentum was injected with the election of Mr Christofias and Mehmet Ali Talat, president of the self-declared Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus (TRNC).

Both are leftists elected on a platform of reconciliation.

Negotiations are ongoing, but one of the major stumbling blocks is the question of how to deal with Greek Cypriots who claim land and property in the north.

Some of this has been sold to some of the 6,000 British expats in northern Cyprus.

In what could prove to be a test case, a court in Cyprus ruled against a couple, David and Linda Orams, who bought land originally belonging to a Greek Cypriot, Meletis Apostolides.


There are fears that if no deal is reached before elections in the TRNC in April what Mr Brown referred to as a "unique opportunity" could be lost.

Mr Zenon said: "The likely opponent of Mr Talat is a hardliner and if he is elected, things will not be made easier. But we will not create artificial deadlines which, as with the Annan Plan, have proved disastrous."

Mr Talat himself, in an interview with the BBC, admitted: "If somebody who is not in favour of a bi-zonal solution is elected then the negotiations will not continue easily."

He said of the negotiations: "The positions of the two sides are not very

close, but we are making progress."

Mr Brown recently renewed an offer to hand back just under half of the UK's sovereign base areas on the island - around Akrotiri and Dhekelia - if a deal could be reached between the two sides.



Cpl Mervyn Whurr was one of 371 servicemen killed in Cyprus
Andrew Dismore, Labour MP for Hendon in north London, feels the timing of the Kyrenia memorial was unfortunate.

He represents more than 3,000 Greek Cypriot constituents and recently led a debate in Parliament about the island.

Mr Dismore said: "Of course, there should be a memorial, but this is neither the time or place, at such a sensitive time in the talks.

"It just serves to remind Greek Cypriots of the UK's less than glorious role as the colonial power, when we are trying to be positive in our support for the talks."

But Mr Talat said the memorial was a "humanitarian" issue and should not have become "politicised".

Mrs Hocking said it was sad the memorial had led to a row and she said of her brother's death: "Was it worth it? The two governments are still not talking. Was it worth all those lives being wasted? It's just like Afghanistan."]




[quote]


[Several thousand people died in the New Zealand Wars, most of them Maori. The numbers below are those of the historian James Cowan, who counted civilians and sometimes overstated the casualties of Maori who opposed the settlers. The death toll was most balanced in the 1840s and in Titokowaru's War. Pai Marire followers suffered the highest proportionate losses.

Anti-government Maori British/Colonists/Kupapa
Northern War (1845–6)
94

82

Wellington/Wanganui (1846–7)
15

14

Taranaki (1860–61, 1863)
196

64

Waikato/Bay of Plenty (1863–4)
619

162

Pai Marire, etc. (1864–8)
772

128

Titokowaru's War (1868–9)
59

83

Te Kooti's War (1868–72)
399

212


2154

745quote]

Six times more Maori were killed than Turkish Cypriots. Lets chop NZ in half and give half to the Maori why let the Annan plan go to waste.


Your mum needs to clear off from her pub near Rotarua so Maoris can sell it to English property speculators.
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Postby Malapapa » Fri Nov 27, 2009 12:35 am

Oracle wrote:
-- Britain will not stand in the way of a possible solution to Cyprus problem, visiting British Minister for Europe Chris Bryant said on Monday.

He added that London can discuss anything that would help ongoing efforts to solve the Cyprus problem, implying that Britain is ready to discuss the issue of guarantees.


Here is the RoC's Minister of Foreign Affairs answer to that:

Replying to a question about the issue of guarantees, Mr Kyprianou asserted: “I repeat that the position of the Cyprus Republic is that no guarantees are necessary. This is an obsolete system of the previous century to be exact. Today we are talking about a reunified Cyprus, a full member state of the European Union where the acquis communautaire is being implemented, and we do no longer see a reason for guarantees by third countries. EU membership is in itself adequate guarantee. I stress that since Britain is ready to contribute to the resolution of the Cyprus problem and to discuss this issue with the other two guarantor powers, we hope that when the time arrives we will have their support on this issue”.


http://www.moi.gov.cy/moi/pio/pio.nsf/A ... endocument

An end to the concept of guarantees?

The UK, as a fellow EU member, has no legs to stand on. Greece is 100% in agreement with Cyprus.

That leaves Turkey ....


What bloody guarantees? None of them were able to guarantee Cyprus's territorial integrity - as they were obligated by treaty to do. That's what being a guarantor means. It's over.

The concept of guarantees ended in 1974.
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Postby Get Real! » Fri Nov 27, 2009 1:28 am

The Treaty of Guarantee fails the Vienna Convention on the Law of Treaties thus rendering it invalid…

http://thecyprusproblem.100webspace.net ... icle17.htm
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Postby Expatkiwi » Fri Nov 27, 2009 5:49 am

SKI-preo wrote:
Your mum needs to clear off from her pub near Rotarua so Maoris can sell it to English property speculators.


Actually she's retiring and a Maori Trust is purchasing the property.
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Postby SKI-preo » Fri Nov 27, 2009 7:33 am

expatkiwi(Jake the Mus) - How is she any different to an ethnically cleansed refugee? Why is your mum entitled to own property and sell it to whomever she pleases and vote and participate in New Zealand democracy and enjoy human rights protected by international treaties when New Zealand has a much bloodier history than Cyprus vis-a-vis your mob and the Maori?

Does she have Monteiths on Tap?

Once were warriors was a cool movie - "Woman get in kitchen and fix me some eggs".Jake the Mus
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Postby Expatkiwi » Fri Nov 27, 2009 4:35 pm

SKI-preo wrote:expatkiwi(Jake the Mus) - How is she any different to an ethnically cleansed refugee? Why is your mum entitled to own property and sell it to whomever she pleases and vote and participate in New Zealand democracy and enjoy human rights protected by international treaties when New Zealand has a much bloodier history than Cyprus vis-a-vis your mob and the Maori?

Does she have Monteiths on Tap?

Once were warriors was a cool movie - "Woman get in kitchen and fix me some eggs".Jake the Mus


A lot of countries had similar histories: USA, Canada, Mexico, Australia to name a few. FYI, I delibeartely avoided "Once Were Warriors".
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Postby Oracle » Fri Nov 27, 2009 4:45 pm

Expatkiwi wrote:
SKI-preo wrote:expatkiwi(Jake the Mus) - How is she any different to an ethnically cleansed refugee? Why is your mum entitled to own property and sell it to whomever she pleases and vote and participate in New Zealand democracy and enjoy human rights protected by international treaties when New Zealand has a much bloodier history than Cyprus vis-a-vis your mob and the Maori?

Does she have Monteiths on Tap?

Once were warriors was a cool movie - "Woman get in kitchen and fix me some eggs".Jake the Mus


A lot of countries had similar histories: USA, Canada, Mexico, Australia to name a few. FYI, I delibeartely avoided "Once Were Warriors".


And you obviously support such actions. Even though they were carried out centuries ago before the rule of law, UN, UDHR ... you would still like to see the continuation of such colonising actions. You would support Australia, say, deciding it wanted North Island off New Zealand, just because it was slightly more geopolitically enticing, invading, ethnically cleansing of all New Zealanders and filling it with beer-swilling Ozzies ...

After all, Kiwis and Ozzies can't co-exist ... except in Earls Court ...
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Postby Malapapa » Fri Nov 27, 2009 8:47 pm

Get Real! wrote:The Treaty of Guarantee fails the Vienna Convention on the Law of Treaties thus rendering it invalid…

http://thecyprusproblem.100webspace.net ... icle17.htm


The treaty is more than invalid, Britain is in breech. Here's another link that legal minded Cypriot government officials might wish to investigate going forward, if Turkey chooses not to join civilisation soon...

http://www.icj-cij.org/court/index.php?p1=1

All three guarantors would be in the dock.
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