Cyprus-Forum.com

[Tony-4497]

It is crystal clear from the outcome of the negotiations to date that the plan to be arrived at will be very similar to the Annan plan in all material respects.

It is also widely known that Christofias is broadly happy with this (as he was in 2004). This was never the issue. The issue has always been the position of the GC population.

By continuing the talks in their current form, the outcome a reasonable person would expect is for a plan very similar to Annan to be put to referendum.

As even Anastasiades pointed out, the above would be "suicide", because GC would again vote No, and subsequently pay a very steep price.

Accordingly, as Christofias continues to march down this path, I cannot help but wonder if he knows something I do not.

Has the government, AKEL or anyone else carried out polls that show that more GCs are now willing to accept something similar to Annan? If not, then why is he continuing with this strategy that appears to lead to "suicide"?

[YFred]

It is crystal clear from the outcome of the negotiations to date that the plan to be arrived at will be very similar to the Annan plan in all material respects.

It is also widely known that Christofias is broadly happy with this (as he was in 2004). This was never the issue. The issue has always been the position of the GC population.

By continuing the talks in their current form, the outcome a reasonable person would expect is for a plan very similar to Annan to be put to referendum.

As even Anastasiades pointed out, the above would be "suicide", because GC would again vote No, and subsequently pay a very steep price.

Accordingly, as Christofias continues to march down this path, I cannot help but wonder if he knows something I do not.

Has the government, AKEL or anyone else carried out polls that show that more GCs are now willing to accept something similar to Annan? If not, then why is he continuing with this strategy that appears to lead to "suicide"?

Welcome to the real world my friend, but kindly bring some of your friends too. You can leave GR and Oracle Fahusa, Fellaho and the D25 to their ignorance.

[Tony-4497]

It is crystal clear from the outcome of the negotiations to date that the plan to be arrived at will be very similar to the Annan plan in all material respects.

It is also widely known that Christofias is broadly happy with this (as he was in 2004). This was never the issue. The issue has always been the position of the GC population.

By continuing the talks in their current form, the outcome a reasonable person would expect is for a plan very similar to Annan to be put to referendum.

As even Anastasiades pointed out, the above would be "suicide", because GC would again vote No, and subsequently pay a very steep price.

Accordingly, as Christofias continues to march down this path, I cannot help but wonder if he knows something I do not.

Has the government, AKEL or anyone else carried out polls that show that more GCs are now willing to accept something similar to Annan? If not, then why is he continuing with this strategy that appears to lead to "suicide"?

Welcome to the real world my friend, but kindly bring some of your friends too. You can leave GR and Oracle Fahusa, Fellaho and the D25 to their ignorance.

I don't think you quite got my point there.. this being that, given that the will of the GC people is highly unlikely to have changed, his strategy appears to be leading us directly to a disaster (which of course works well for you!)

The question is very much aimed at those who support this strategy..

[Bananiot]

If Christofias and Talat manage to work out a mutually agreed solution plan, this will be little different to the Annan plan, in my opinion. It would be possible to get a yes vote from the GC's provided some of the concerns sited in 2004 are addressed adequately. These include Turkey's guarantorship and imlementation time frames. Such a plan will be a Cypriot plan worked out by Cypriots for Cypriots and with the help of the mother countries, it can sail through the referenda. This is a huge concern for the rejectionists in both communities.

[Tony-4497]

If Christofias and Talat manage to work out a mutually agreed solution plan, this will be little different to the Annan plan, in my opinion. It would be possible to get a yes vote from the GC's provided some of the concerns sited in 2004 are addressed adequately. These include Turkey's guarantorship and imlementation time frames. Such a plan will be a Cypriot plan worked out by Cypriots for Cypriots and with the help of the mother countries, it can sail through the referenda. This is a huge concern for the rejectionists in both communities.

So your view is that a plan which is "little different" to the Annan Plan, with the only key differences being:

- slight modifications to guarantees (let's face it, complete elimination will not be accepted by Turks); and
- somewhat faster implementation (much faster is impossible, due to need to move settlers etc)

will "sail through"...

While I am not a rejectionist, I am indeed hugely concerned about your views, because these are shared by Christofias, who is making the decisions for our future.

Both of you have clearly not realised the harm that will come to this country from a second No at referendum and are steadily proceeding toward "suicide" in Anastasiades's words.. God have mercy on us...

[BOF]

Tony
As only the teams dealing with the negotiations are aware of what is taking place, then everything else is just speculation on everyone elses part. At least when the dust has settled you will have the opportunity to Make your feelings known in a referendum.

And to all intents and purposes this is a negotiation for Cypriots by Cypriots.
I share your concern regarding another "no"vote though, hardliners on both sides will not want anything less than a total humiliation of the other side.
Where i think the "suicide" factor would appear is if there is reunification and some idiots start inter communal violence or racial intolerance.
Then certainly God help Cyprus and Cypriots....

[insan]

DIKO accuses Christofias of hardline policies
By George Psyllides

THE GOVERNMENT yesterday rubbished charges from coalition partners DIKO that it was being giving up too much in the negotiations to resolve the Cyprus problem.

DIKO vice chairman Nicolas Papadopoulos claimed that President Demetris Christofias was more or less giving away what the former Turkish Cypriot leader and hardliner Rauf Denktash wanted in 2002.

“In 2002 Rauf Denktash was asking for a new partnership with equality, continuance of Turkish guarantees, recognition of the breakaway state and rotating presidency with executive power,” Papadopoulos said.

He said then president Glafkos Clerides rejected the proposal.

“However, today we see our side submitting the positions of extremist Rauf Denktash to the negotiating table and presenting them as our proposals, in the frame of an unexplained generosity,” Papadopoulos said.

He said there was no doubt the Greek Cypriot side had accepted numerical equality as the general principle that regulates the operation of the new state.

Papadopoulos said it was the Greek Cypriot side which suggested the rotating presidency as it was proposed by Denktash and rejected by Clerides.

He added that Christofias has not clarified whether he ask for Turkey’s guarantee powers to be scrapped.

The DIKO vice chairman also suggested the Greek Cypriot side “submitted a proposal recognising all legislative, executive and judicial acts of the breakaway state.”

“In essence, in this way we recognise the breakaway state since these three are the basic powers of a state,” Papadopoulos said.

The government was quick to respond to its partner.

“In the framework of the daily, crushing, and undermining criticism which Mr Nicolas Papadopoulos exercises … he very often distorts the positions the Greek Cypriot side submits to the negotiations, in a hopeless effort to substantiate his views,” government spokesman Stefanos Stefanou said.

He said the Greek Cypriot side had never accepted numerical equality nor did it agree to recognise the breakaway state’s legislative decisions.

“If Mr Papadopoulos even bothered to carefully read the documents the president gave the parties, he would discover that not only we have not accepted such a position, but there is also a substantial difference in opinion with the Turkish Cypriot community,” the spokesman said.

Concerning the rotating presidency, Stefanou said it was never disputed by respective negotiators.

Late president Tassos Papadopoulos, the DIKO vice chairman’s father, even made proposals to improve the rotating presidency, Stefanou said.



Copyright © Cyprus Mail 2009


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I believe Chris under pressure of other political groups of GCs tries to be balanced and play his cards wisely...

I don't think he is sincere of being a compromising negotiator. He many times reiterated that there r still big divergences on some basic issues. He is well aware of that the problem won't be solved(actually he won't let it be solved) until the end of Talat's term in office.

If Eroglu or any other right wingers is elected for presidency after Talat, he will get a great opportunity to put the blame on Turkish side regarding the deadlock. However there is a high possibility of Talat and his team remain as a negotiator.

If again Talat is elected for presidency he will continue his tactical negotiation process and exert getting the support of international community to pressurize Turkey and TCs for more concessions in favour of GC-Greek solution thesis.

He well knows that without Turkish guarantees and permenant derrogations he will "democratically" be able to ammend the constitution in direction of making TCs an ineffective minority in Cyprus.

However, he is mistaken abt his political calculations... If until the end of Talat's term in office the problem is not solved; it is most likely that TC-Turkish side will ask for pre-conditions for the next round of talks. One of the pre-conditions will be lifting the isolations and other one most probably be the acceptance of Turkish guarantorship... if these pre-conditions r not accepted by GC-Greek side; TC-Turkish side will officialy start exerting intense international diplomacy for recognition of TRNC.

[-mikkie2-]

"I don't think he is sincere of being a compromising negotiator."

And Talat and the Turkish side are very sincere and compromising!

[Tony-4497]

Tony
As only the teams dealing with the negotiations are aware of what is taking place, then everything else is just speculation on everyone elses part. At least when the dust has settled you will have the opportunity to Make your feelings known in a referendum.

And to all intents and purposes this is a negotiation for Cypriots by Cypriots.
I share your concern regarding another "no"vote though, hardliners on both sides will not want anything less than a total humiliation of the other side.
Where i think the "suicide" factor would appear is if there is reunification and some idiots start inter communal violence or racial intolerance.
Then certainly God help Cyprus and Cypriots....

I accept your point, but at the same time consider that sufficient information is coming out of the talks for people to see where the whole thing is heading.

And it is pretty clear that we are heading towards something very similar to the AP, which I consider will have a very similar fate as the AP (and hence a highly adverse impact on the RoC).

My wish is for a plan to be found that will have a decent chance of passing referenda in both sides. For this to happen, there needs to be substantial improvements (I believe these mainly need to be in the property/ land sharing area plus security - both for implementation and ongoing).

I unfortunately do not see Christofias pushing hard for these - I believe he should put these issues forward now, and if Turks are unwilling to accept fundamental principles (e.g. the right to property ownership), then declare this and proceed to treat Turkey accordingly in December, inviting the help of the international community to persuade Turkey to accept such principles.

[Tony-4497]

I don't think he is sincere of being a compromising negotiator. He many times reiterated that there r still big divergences on some basic issues.

I hope you're right, but I don't think so.. what happened to to date does not support the above..

He is well aware of that the problem won't be solved (actually he won't let it be solved) until the end of Talat's term in office. If Eroglu or any other right wingers is elected for presidency after Talat, he will get a great opportunity to put the blame on Turkish side regarding the deadlock. However there is a high possibility of Talat and his team remain as a negotiator. If again Talat is elected for presidency he will continue his tactical negotiation process and exert getting the support of international community to pressurize Turkey and TCs for more concessions in favour of GC-Greek solution thesis.

You seem to be labouring under the illusion that who is the TC negotiator depends on TC "elections" and is not decided by Turkey.. The March deadline is artificial.. Turkey will not allow Eroglu to become the negotiator under any circumstances.. I would bet money on this.

it is most likely that TC-Turkish side will ask for pre-conditions for the next round of talks. One of the pre-conditions will be lifting the isolations and other one most probably be the acceptance of Turkish guarantorship... if these pre-conditions r not accepted by GC-Greek side; TC-Turkish side will officialy start exerting intense international diplomacy for recognition of TRNC.

Pre-conditions, recognition etc used to be Turkey's previous strategy (stating the problem was solved in 74).. why do you think Turkey has changed this in recent years? What do you think will happen if Turkey goes back to this strategy?

I believe that the only way for such a strategy to work is if GCs vote No for a second time, which is where Christofias et al are taking us..