Cyprus-Forum.com

[Viewpoint]

B25 you are obviously brainwashed and will never accept the errors of your own side the fact that they are experts at convering things up and keeping you people in the dark does not mean that these wrongs have also been commited by your side.

No VP, I have not been brainwashed by anyone. You have done a good job on me and many others. You have shown us we cannot trust you, that we need the safe guards not you and you just want us to capitulate our country to a bunch of barbarians.

Well done VP, prior to coming here are ready your, and your chums posts, I thought that maybe I could live with the TCs, but you have done a good job on me with all the poison you are spewing.

Maybe I ma brainwashed, but by your poison.

Bravo!

Thank you for confirming my point, a brainwashed person would react just as you did above...

[Bananiot]

B25 wrote (while hiding behind a nick)

Eisai telia garos re bananiopoushti,

Where, show me just where we have done this. apart from the small 3000m2 area of Larnaca airport where else. Putting roads has added value to their land that awaits them, does ours await us???

settlements maybe around TC land but your claim is totally lies, propogandarised to suit your Turkish mates, may you go to hell.

We had 200,000 people to take care of, gaidare, pou eitan na tous valoume?? sto colo sou re??

Not only are they holding our country, blackmailing us, threatening us, you have the god damn cheek to speak against us as well??

You should collect up all your little Turkish buddies and get on the next flight outta here, you are not worthy to even be amongst the GC people. You are a true arsehole bananiot each and every post you make just strengthens my hatred for you.

I am embarrased for my fellow GCs that we have someone like you who calls himslf a GC. Asirkti.

I got my figures from published statistics. These things are well known and have been thrown around during tv talk shows (Markides last week) and nobody (including the bash patriots) ever questioned them.

[B25]

B25 wrote (while hiding behind a nick)

Eisai telia garos re bananiopoushti,

Where, show me just where we have done this. apart from the small 3000m2 area of Larnaca airport where else. Putting roads has added value to their land that awaits them, does ours await us???

settlements maybe around TC land but your claim is totally lies, propogandarised to suit your Turkish mates, may you go to hell.

We had 200,000 people to take care of, gaidare, pou eitan na tous valoume?? sto colo sou re??

Not only are they holding our country, blackmailing us, threatening us, you have the god damn cheek to speak against us as well??

You should collect up all your little Turkish buddies and get on the next flight outta here, you are not worthy to even be amongst the GC people. You are a true arsehole bananiot each and every post you make just strengthens my hatred for you.

I am embarrased for my fellow GCs that we have someone like you who calls himslf a GC. Asirkti.

I got my figures from published statistics. These things are well known and have been thrown around during tv talk shows (Markides last week) and nobody (including the bash patriots) ever questioned them.

Well show me these 'published statistics' and I will apologise humbly, otherwise you are a liar.

[Piratis]

Bananiot you are talking crap as usual.

First of all you equate the illegal sale of properties in the occupied areas to foreigners, with the temporary use of TC properties in the free areas by refugees, and the 100% normal expropriation of properties (of all Cypriots, not just TCs!) in order to build public infrastructure such as roads, airports, schools etc. This happens in every country of the world dear Bananiot.

The other thing you forget is that the TCs stole 3 times more than what they left behind, and they have illegally used an even bigger portion than the portion of their properties which was legally expropriated by the government for infrastructure.

This means that we might pay some millions to them, but they will have to pay a lot more to us. I have no problem with this, do you Bananiot? Or did you also fail the math class along with your TC friends who can not understand that 82 is bigger than 18?

If part of the airport is build on land belonging to some TCs then the government will pay to him every single cent it owns to him. We have absolutely no problem with this. The same goes for any other TC properties which were expropriated.

As far as the properties which are used to house refugees, the TCs can have those back, they were only used temporarily because TCs illegally prohibited from our refugees to use their own homes.

According to Annan plan the TCs and Turkey would not have to pay a single cent! Not only we would have to feed their Settlers, but we would have to compensate our own refugees so the Turks could have their own separate state on land stolen from us!!!

You can imagine the chaos that would exist in Cyprus today if people were fooled to believe that Annan plan was a solution, but soon they would realize that not only it didn't solve their problems but it created more! At least now our refugees can take Turkey and those foreign scumbags to the ECHR and to the courts all over EU, and the Turks, not us, will have to pay the compensations.

The Orams would indeed be very happy if we were fools and accepted the Annan plan. They would be free to enjoy what they stole, while Apostolides would have to receive compensation from us. So basically you and I will have to pay for the crimes of the Turks and criminals like Orams, while they would be laughing in our back freely enjoying what they stole from us. Only a fool would accept such thing!

[Tony-4497]

Tony I agree with 1, point 2 if there is to be a 20 80 split we might as well go for agreed partition, why take on the partnership with all its risks? point 3 how will this work when there are refugees in both states? point how will you get the TCs to trust the EU/NATO when you knew they only want Turkey as a guarantor?

point 2: Well, because I don't think that agreed partition 80:20 has been offered or accepted by either us, or Turkey for that matter.. I really think that Turkey would not allow a complete partition.. in any case, if you look at it from GC point of view, it's the same.. i.e. why go with partnership with all its risks if we are not getting "more than proportional" land? (especially since the governance arrangements agreed effectively remove any numerical advantage from the 82% GCs)

point 3: there will not be homeless people.. sufficient time should be allowed to make re-housing arrangements for those that will move from lands to be returned.. my point is that recognition of the new state of affairs should happen AFTER this has been completed and all lands have been given to the UN

point 4: you do realise that it's not only about what TCs want.. Turkey has fully betrayed its role as a guarantor.. its right and OBLIGATION as a guarantor was to RESTORE the legal government of the RoC and protect the countrs territorial integrity.. Turkey instead did the exact opposite.. not mention the killings, rapes and ethnic cleansing of the people she "guaranteed".. on this basis, Turkey has lost any chance of being a guarantor.. in practice, TCs will not have real concerns because they will be in the EU and have NATO guarantees (which includes Turkey).. plus they know that in any case if TC safety is indeed ever put at risk, Turkey will intervene in 3 minutes.. the people who really do need guarantees are the GCs, because they are at the mercy of the superior Turkish military

[Jimski999]

My house stands on a plot of about 1,000 square metres and when I compare the size of my plot against Larnaca airport it is miniscule even if I multipy it by three so whose land was the rest of the airport built on? When the Paphos to Limmasol Motorways was built millions of acres were compulsery purchased and I would bet money on it that it wasn't routed through only Turkish Cypriot property. This lame argument about Larnaca airport keeps getting regurgitated as if the whole area was Turkish Cypriot land and is becoming folklore on 44. It's not only in Cyprus that people who have land compulsery purchased have difficulty getting the full market value; ask the people who were affected by the second runway at Manchester or the new terminal at Heathrow did they get the full market price for their properties.

[insan]

Tony I agree with 1, point 2 if there is to be a 20 80 split we might as well go for agreed partition, why take on the partnership with all its risks? point 3 how will this work when there are refugees in both states? point how will you get the TCs to trust the EU/NATO when you knew they only want Turkey as a guarantor?

point 2: Well, because I don't think that agreed partition 80:20 has been offered or accepted by either us, or Turkey for that matter.. I really think that Turkey would not allow a complete partition.. in any case, if you look at it from GC point of view, it's the same.. i.e. why go with partnership with all its risks if we are not getting "more than proportional" land? (especially since the governance arrangements agreed effectively remove any numerical advantage from the 82% GCs)

point 3: there will not be homeless people.. sufficient time should be allowed to make re-housing arrangements for those that will move from lands to be returned.. my point is that recognition of the new state of affairs should AFTER this has been completed and all lands have been given to the UN

point 4: you do realise that it's not only about what TCs want.. Turkey has fully betrayed its role as a guarantor.. its right and OBLIGATION as a guarantor was to RESTORE the legal government of the RoC and protect the countrs territorial integrity.. Turkey instead did the exact opposite.. not mention the killings, rapes and ethnic cleansing of the people she "guaranteed".. on this basis, Turkey has lost any chance of being a guarantor.. in practice, TCs will not have real concerns because they will be in the EU and have NATO guarantees (which includes Turkey).. plus they know that in any case if TC safety is indeed ever put at risk, Turkey will intervene in 3 minutes.. the people who really do need guarantees are the GCs, because they are at the mercy of the superior Turkish military

Tony, GC leadership(backed by some Greek political groups) never wanted guarantorship of Turkey aka "Barbarian Atilla".

Turkey sincerely exerted to restore the then "legal government of RoC" from 1968 to 1974...

During this 5 years lasted period, Makarios and his bakers exerted on only and only minority rights for TCs and Grivasites exerted on only and only Enosis with Greece.

Greek and GC leaderships have always been a waste of time to talk abt the restoration of Cyprus constitution.

Nevertheless, Turkey, for the sake of keeping NATO alliance stable and in hope of the mentalities of Greek, GC leaderships changed; after every failure of talks, accepted to continue talks in a hope Cyprus problem would be solved... Unfortunately, everytime TCs and Turks faced with the unchanged fact that Greek-GC mentality is still the same.

As for partitioning the territory of Cyprus; everyone will put all the land registry records on the table, besides viability of the lands(arable, non-arable etc) will be taken into account as it was agreed by Makarios and Denktash in late 70s.

[Bananiot]

Read Alekos's Markides (Ex Attorney General of RoC) interview in "Alithia" Newspaper last Sunday. Your hair, B25, will stand on end! He also talked about expropriation, Piratis. Your hair will also stand on end.

http://alithia.com.cy/alithia_v2/front- ... gn=default

[vaughanwilliams]

Not that I have much hair, but I couldn't read it as it seems to be in Greek.

[Tony-4497]

Tony I agree with 1, point 2 if there is to be a 20 80 split we might as well go for agreed partition, why take on the partnership with all its risks? point 3 how will this work when there are refugees in both states? point how will you get the TCs to trust the EU/NATO when you knew they only want Turkey as a guarantor?

point 2: Well, because I don't think that agreed partition 80:20 has been offered or accepted by either us, or Turkey for that matter.. I really think that Turkey would not allow a complete partition.. in any case, if you look at it from GC point of view, it's the same.. i.e. why go with partnership with all its risks if we are not getting "more than proportional" land? (especially since the governance arrangements agreed effectively remove any numerical advantage from the 82% GCs)

point 3: there will not be homeless people.. sufficient time should be allowed to make re-housing arrangements for those that will move from lands to be returned.. my point is that recognition of the new state of affairs should AFTER this has been completed and all lands have been given to the UN

point 4: you do realise that it's not only about what TCs want.. Turkey has fully betrayed its role as a guarantor.. its right and OBLIGATION as a guarantor was to RESTORE the legal government of the RoC and protect the countrs territorial integrity.. Turkey instead did the exact opposite.. not mention the killings, rapes and ethnic cleansing of the people she "guaranteed".. on this basis, Turkey has lost any chance of being a guarantor.. in practice, TCs will not have real concerns because they will be in the EU and have NATO guarantees (which includes Turkey).. plus they know that in any case if TC safety is indeed ever put at risk, Turkey will intervene in 3 minutes.. the people who really do need guarantees are the GCs, because they are at the mercy of the superior Turkish military

Tony, GC leadership(backed by some Greek political groups) never wanted guarantorship of Turkey aka "Barbarian Atilla".

Turkey sincerely exerted to restore the then "legal government of RoC" from 1968 to 1974...

During this 5 years lasted period, Makarios and his bakers exerted on only and only minority rights for TCs and Grivasites exerted on only and only Enosis with Greece.

Greek and GC leaderships have always been a waste of time to talk abt the restoration of Cyprus constitution.

Nevertheless, Turkey, for the sake of keeping NATO alliance stable and in hope of the mentalities of Greek, GC leaderships changed; after every failure of talks, accepted to continue talks in a hope Cyprus problem would be solved... Unfortunately, everytime TCs and Turks faced with the unchanged fact that Greek-GC mentality is still the same.

As for partitioning the territory of Cyprus; everyone will put all the land registry records on the table, besides viability of the lands(arable, non-arable etc) will be taken into account as it was agreed by Makarios and Denktash in late 70s.

Insan

This discussion has been had numerous times.. re TCs being forced out of the government "at gunpoint" v willing leaving at Turkey's orders to seek taksim etc etc. I agree that idiots from the GC side made some tragic mistakes, but let's face it, Turkey had the power to restore the 1960 constitutional order if it so wished.. it did not, because its original plan, dating back to before the 50s was to enforce some kind of partition..

Looking forward though, the facts re ownership etc are there.. there is the official registry that was originally held by the Brits, that has been challenged by Evkav etc and that has stood in EU courts. This gives ownership to TCs of some 15%, I think.. in any case below their population % of 18%. And this makes sense, because if we are honest we all know that the average TC was less weatlhy than the average GC (partly because of greater family size).

In addition, note that the key value driver for land nowdays is proximity to the sea. Seafront property sells for upwards of 1m per donnum!

On the basis of the above, an objective third party would certainly not allow more than 20% of land AND coastline for the TC component state. I believe this is a major issue, because it drives both the issue re individual property rights of GCs and the Bizonality principle.