Cyprus-Forum.com

[Tony-4497]

Thats exactly why we cannot agree a solution due to the chasm being so wide, neither side is willing to accept its wrongs and therefore compromise enough to find middle ground that we can commit to. The ball game chnaged in 1974 with not only our contribution but also yours so as you have already accepted. There is no going back and seeing the division isin place you have no other choice but to accept the reality before you, because you if you had any a choice you would reject BBF tomorrow so in reality you have made no compromise whatsoever, its a result of your own actions.

That's it in a nutshell, but the folk down south really are too hard-headed to admit this. ..

Not everyone in the south is like the hard headed forumers. The atitudes are changing. They do realise the consequences of another GC no vote.

There will not be another GC no vote simply because there will not be another referendum until you drop your ridiculous demands and accept something reasonable. Until then we can negotiate for decades as far as I am concerned. Or of course you can drop out of the negotiations. Your choice.

I am not too sure about this, Piratis.. Christofias seems to be heading straight for a referendum on an Annan-like solution, in the hope that GC will be blackmailed into accepting it (his plan for "cementing the Yes" per 2004).

GCs, however, despite what he thinks, will give a second No.

It is such a shame, in my view.. if he were a realist (as he claims), he should be putting forward a BBF which is ACCEPTABLE to GC people (and not an AP lookalike), supporting his positions based on human rigths, EU law etc and blocking Turkey's EU process until this BBF was accepted by Turkey.

The above is the ONLY strategy that could deliver a solution.

[Bananiot]

As you probably know, there are no solutions but options. Our only hope for solution is an improved version of the Annan Plan. If we go for this we will have the support of the UN, EU and the international community at large. If not, and once again Turkey shows good will for such a solution, we will be left on our own and anyone that thinks that this is okay, I think is a political cretin.

[Piratis]

Solution could be one of the options. But it is not. Whats the point of choosing an option which will not be a solution but a bigger problem? Only an idiot would support such an option.

Bananiot, what do you think about the occupation of Kurdistan by the Turks? Is it a problem? Or it is not a problem because nobody recognizes an independent Kurdistan and therefore nobody recognizes that Kurdistan is wrongly occupied by Turkey?

The first step in solving a problem is to recognize that the problem exists. In this respect we are in a better position than the Kurds, because the occupation of north Cyprus by Turkey is at least recognized as a problem. What you want to do is to remove (not solve) the problem, by legalizing the occupation of north Cyprus by the Turks in the same way they occupy Kurdistan.

[Tony-4497]

As you probably know, there are no solutions but options. Our only hope for solution is an improved version of the Annan Plan. If we go for this we will have the support of the UN, EU and the international community at large. If not, and once again Turkey shows good will for such a solution, we will be left on our own and anyone that thinks that this is okay, I think is a political cretin.

I agree in principle provided that by "an improved version of the Annan plan" you mean a plan that, while still called a "BBF with political equality", represents a fair and viable way forward that secures the human rights of GCs and TCs. In particular, this plan should, in my view, include the following 4 changes compared to the AP as an absolute minimum:

1. Respect of everyone's property rights

2. Proportional sharing of land (around 80:20) - NECESSARY in order to achieve no 1 above AND the principle of bizonality

3. Implementation guarantees - FIRST Turkey delivers ALL the land to be returned to the UN (i.e. in an "escrow" account) and ONLY THEN is the new state of affairs recognised (only an IDIOT would give recognition etc IMMEDIATELY in the HOPE that Turkey will in a few years give back the land)

4. Ongoing guarantees - if TCs cannot be convinced to get rid of these completely, then only EU/NATO guarantees (i.e. not Greek or Turkish) can exist and for only a transitional period

[Viewpoint]

Tony I agree with 1, point 2 if there is to be a 20 80 split we might as well go for agreed partition, why take on the partnership with all its risks? point 3 how will this work when there are refugees in both states? point how will you get the TCs to trust the EU/NATO when you knew they only want Turkey as a guarantor?

[Bananiot]

The property issues concern both communities. The question that applies to both communities is what will happen to the GC properties in the Turkish Cypriot State and what will happen to the TC properties in the Greek Cypriot controlled areas. We have built settlements and roads and airports and God knows what else on TC land. The settlements have been built not with state money but with the money of the people involved. What about titles deeds that have been issued to GC's? Similarly, in the north, buildings have been erected on GC land and roads have been passed through GC properties.

We thus need to look at the issue in a very realistic way, away from slogans and wishful thinking. Criteria need to be set and categorisation of properties should not scare us because even in the event of a stalemate in the talks, some sort of a compromise will be agreed upon on this issue.

The rigid stance of the hard liners that owners must have the first option regarding properties will eventually generate huge problems throughout Cyprus. For example, a Turkish Cypriot land owner who is represented by a GC lawyer is claiming in excess of 22 million euro because part of the new airport has been built on his land. Our government has told this person that compensation will be paid to him once the Cyprus issue is solved. The issue becomes more complicated now with the the EU since the Lisbon treaty has been passed. Now everybody has the right to property. This issue now can be decided by the local courts and apart from stalling for as long as possible, what else can be done?

[B25]

We have built settlements and roads and airports and God knows what else on TC land.

Eisai telia garos re bananiopoushti,

Where, show me just where we have done this. apart from the small 3000m2 area of Larnaca airport where else. Putting roads has added value to their land that awaits them, does ours await us???

settlements maybe around TC land but your claim is totally lies, propogandarised to suit your Turkish mates, may you go to hell.

We had 200,000 people to take care of, gaidare, pou eitan na tous valoume?? sto colo sou re??

Not only are they holding our country, blackmailing us, threatening us, you have the god damn cheek to speak against us as well??

You should collect up all your little Turkish buddies and get on the next flight outta here, you are not worthy to even be amongst the GC people. You are a true arsehole bananiot each and every post you make just strengthens my hatred for you.

I am embarrased for my fellow GCs that we have someone like you who calls himslf a GC. Asirkti.

[Viewpoint]

B25 you are obviously brainwashed and will never accept the errors of your own side the fact that they are experts at convering things up and keeping you people in the dark does not mean that these wrongs have also been commited by your side.

[YFred]

We have built settlements and roads and airports and God knows what else on TC land.

Eisai telia garos re bananiopoushti,

Where, show me just where we have done this. apart from the small 3000m2 area of Larnaca airport where else. Putting roads has added value to their land that awaits them, does ours await us???

settlements maybe around TC land but your claim is totally lies, propogandarised to suit your Turkish mates, may you go to hell.

We had 200,000 people to take care of, gaidare, pou eitan na tous valoume?? sto colo sou re??

Not only are they holding our country, blackmailing us, threatening us, you have the god damn cheek to speak against us as well??

You should collect up all your little Turkish buddies and get on the next flight outta here, you are not worthy to even be amongst the GC people. You are a true arsehole bananiot each and every post you make just strengthens my hatred for you.

I am embarrased for my fellow GCs that we have someone like you who calls himslf a GC. Asirkti.

I thought it was just VP that got you angry old chap. What was it you said. Just go and get your land back from the roc. Yeah and pigs will fly.
Reh vromo gatsoshiiiirrrrrrrrrroooooooo.

[B25]

B25 you are obviously brainwashed and will never accept the errors of your own side the fact that they are experts at convering things up and keeping you people in the dark does not mean that these wrongs have also been commited by your side.

No VP, I have not been brainwashed by anyone. You have done a good job on me and many others. You have shown us we cannot trust you, that we need the safe guards not you and you just want us to capitulate our country to a bunch of barbarians.

Well done VP, prior to coming here are reading your, and your chums posts, I thought that maybe I could live with the TCs, but you have done a good job on me with all the poison you are spewing.

Maybe I am brainwashed, but by your poison.

Bravo!