Cyprus-Forum.com

[Piratis]

You want to sign a racist political arrangement for Cyprus because you may get some business contracts in Turkey later?

Here’s what’s going to happen one or two years after wavering international law and signing such a stupid agreement:

Turkey is going to use the SLIGHTEST excuse to declare…

“Nah! This partnership ain’t working so we’re closing off our section! Sorry, we tried… Bye!”

Turkey then declares an independent state and this time EVERYONE recognizes it because there are no UN resolutions against it because you stupidly wavered the sovereignty of Cyprus by signing this “plan”!

So you will have effectively LEGALLY signed away half of Cyprus to them because you were too stupid to see what a 10 year old could’ve predicted!

Hmmm, this idea is just crazy enough to work...

Not As crazy as you might think.

Türkmen, saying that he supported the Annan plan, voiced the opinion, “The Annan Plan had various flaws and was difficult to implement. If the plan could have been shown to be unworkable our basic aim of two states could have been achieved more easily, because it would have been necessary to find a formula within the EU. Just as Czechoslovakia was divided into two it would have been possible to divide Cyprus into two separate states.

http://www.cyprus-forum.com/viewtopic.php?t=24938

Although I am not sure why Turkey would choose partition when they would be able to control the whole Cyprus. But if they want this it will be extremely easy to achieve after some Annan plan "solution" that will officially create some "Turkish Cyprus" territory and it would give to TC (and Turkey) the means to make that fragile system to collapse with an official partition the only remaining alternative.

[Viewpoint]

We have made UN resolutions on Cyprus our banner over the last 35 years. These resolutions talk about a bizonal, bicommunal federation with political equality of the two communities. Any attempt to move away from such a solution will mean the end of Cyprus, unless we are a superpower and can do whatever we like.

What the UN resolutions define as "BBF" is very broad and vague.

There are BBF arrangements that fit within this broad definition that can suit as just fine. It is all a matter of land distribution (there is no UN resolution that says that the TC minority should get 30% of land or anything close to that) and a matter of how "effective participation" is interpreted, and we can interpret it as we wish.

The land distribution can be about 12% for TCs and 88% for the rest of Cypriots and the "effective participation" can mean for TCs not to be excluded from the government and to be proportionally represented in all organs.

Nobody said we should move away from the BBF framework, but nobody forces us to accept the Turkish interpretation of it. We should put forward our own version of BBF, one that can result in a fair and workable solution and a system which will be democratic and respect the human rights of all citizens and be in accordance not only with UN resolutions about Cyprus but also with the UN Charter and the EU acquis.

But your version only addresses your demands and not ours, we cannot take a leap of faith just because you claim it is "democratic".

It addresses your main demand for a separate federal state in Cyprus, something you have no right for but we made a compromise on. It also fulfills the "effective participation" part, making what I propose well within the definition of BBF as defined by the UN Resolutions.

Of course if you want everything your way, and nothing our way, an agreement will not be found. We are not Bananiots to accept each and every ridiculous demand you make.

Nothing has been agreed Piratis and the control of power is the key as you clearly display the signs that you will exploit your numerical advanatge to change any agreement that you later believe is not to you liking, youve tried it before and if nothing is stopping you in the future you will soon arrive at the same position and try to reduce our effectiveness in a united Cyprus. Another key factor is security......your total refusal of Turkey guarantor rights will go down like a lead bballow with TC voters as intilally there is not trust of any alternative...at best a transition period is necessary.

[Piratis]

We have made UN resolutions on Cyprus our banner over the last 35 years. These resolutions talk about a bizonal, bicommunal federation with political equality of the two communities. Any attempt to move away from such a solution will mean the end of Cyprus, unless we are a superpower and can do whatever we like.

What the UN resolutions define as "BBF" is very broad and vague.

There are BBF arrangements that fit within this broad definition that can suit as just fine. It is all a matter of land distribution (there is no UN resolution that says that the TC minority should get 30% of land or anything close to that) and a matter of how "effective participation" is interpreted, and we can interpret it as we wish.

The land distribution can be about 12% for TCs and 88% for the rest of Cypriots and the "effective participation" can mean for TCs not to be excluded from the government and to be proportionally represented in all organs.

Nobody said we should move away from the BBF framework, but nobody forces us to accept the Turkish interpretation of it. We should put forward our own version of BBF, one that can result in a fair and workable solution and a system which will be democratic and respect the human rights of all citizens and be in accordance not only with UN resolutions about Cyprus but also with the UN Charter and the EU acquis.

But your version only addresses your demands and not ours, we cannot take a leap of faith just because you claim it is "democratic".

It addresses your main demand for a separate federal state in Cyprus, something you have no right for but we made a compromise on. It also fulfills the "effective participation" part, making what I propose well within the definition of BBF as defined by the UN Resolutions.

Of course if you want everything your way, and nothing our way, an agreement will not be found. We are not Bananiots to accept each and every ridiculous demand you make.

Nothing has been agreed Piratis and the control of power is the key as you clearly display the signs that you will exploit your numerical advanatge to change any agreement that you later believe is not to you liking, youve tried it before and if nothing is stopping you in the future you will soon arrive at the same position and try to reduce our effectiveness in a united Cyprus. Another key factor is security......your total refusal of Turkey guarantor rights will go down like a lead bballow with TC voters as intilally there is not trust of any alternative...at best a transition period is necessary.

Your track record from the day you set your foot on our island until today is extremely bad, full with invasions, massacres of 10s of thousands of innocent people and oppression of our human and democratic rights.

We have no obligation to accept each and every ridiculous demand of yours, and we will not. We have already indicated that we are willing to make a huge compromise by accepting a BBF. But as you said, nothing is agreed yet. If you also don't make the compromises necessarily to reach a BBF solution that is acceptable to us, then no such agreement will be found.

[Viewpoint]

Thats exactly why we cannot agree a solution due to the chasm being so wide, neither side is willing to accept its wrongs and therefore compromise enough to find middle ground that we can commit to. The ball game chnaged in 1974 with not only our contribution but also yours so as you have already accepted. There is no going back and seeing the division isin place you have no other choice but to accept the reality before you, because you if you had any a choice you would reject BBF tomorrow so in reality you have made no compromise whatsoever, its a result of your own actions.

[Expatkiwi]

Thats exactly why we cannot agree a solution due to the chasm being so wide, neither side is willing to accept its wrongs and therefore compromise enough to find middle ground that we can commit to. The ball game chnaged in 1974 with not only our contribution but also yours so as you have already accepted. There is no going back and seeing the division isin place you have no other choice but to accept the reality before you, because you if you had any a choice you would reject BBF tomorrow so in reality you have made no compromise whatsoever, its a result of your own actions.

That's it in a nutshell, but the folk down south really are too hard-headed to admit this. ..

[YFred]

Thats exactly why we cannot agree a solution due to the chasm being so wide, neither side is willing to accept its wrongs and therefore compromise enough to find middle ground that we can commit to. The ball game chnaged in 1974 with not only our contribution but also yours so as you have already accepted. There is no going back and seeing the division isin place you have no other choice but to accept the reality before you, because you if you had any a choice you would reject BBF tomorrow so in reality you have made no compromise whatsoever, its a result of your own actions.

That's it in a nutshell, but the folk down south really are too hard-headed to admit this. ..

Not everyone in the south is like the hard headed forumers. The atitudes are changing. They do realise the consequences of another GC no vote.

[Piratis]

Thats exactly why we cannot agree a solution due to the chasm being so wide, neither side is willing to accept its wrongs and therefore compromise enough to find middle ground that we can commit to. The ball game chnaged in 1974 with not only our contribution but also yours so as you have already accepted. There is no going back and seeing the division isin place you have no other choice but to accept the reality before you, because you if you had any a choice you would reject BBF tomorrow so in reality you have made no compromise whatsoever, its a result of your own actions.

We have no obligation at all to accept anything we do not like. You are obligated by UN resolutions to end the illegal occupation of our country and disband the pseudo-state you created on our land. But we are not obligated at all to accept anything, and our right to reject what we don't like is shown with our rejection of the Annan plan.

If you don't make the compromises needed to agree for some different arrangement, then nothing will change. Republic of Cyprus will remain as it is, and you will remain the illegal occupiers facing the consequences of your illegal actions.

Personally I am not willing to accept a bad solution, and this situation can drag for many decades more as far as I am concerned. Don't hope that you can force as to capitulate, because you can't.

Your choices are:
1) Accept a solution that we like.
2) Continue to act illegally and face the consequences.

You have no other option. So far you choose option (2). Go on and continue choosing to be criminals and outlaws if you want.

Meanwhile I will enjoy my 3 times higher standards of living and the 100% recognition in UN and EU, and when you are ready to compromise let me know. Until then don't bother us because we have other things to do than waste our time with a bunch of useless puppets of Turkey.

[Piratis]

Thats exactly why we cannot agree a solution due to the chasm being so wide, neither side is willing to accept its wrongs and therefore compromise enough to find middle ground that we can commit to. The ball game chnaged in 1974 with not only our contribution but also yours so as you have already accepted. There is no going back and seeing the division isin place you have no other choice but to accept the reality before you, because you if you had any a choice you would reject BBF tomorrow so in reality you have made no compromise whatsoever, its a result of your own actions.

That's it in a nutshell, but the folk down south really are too hard-headed to admit this. ..

Not everyone in the south is like the hard headed forumers. The atitudes are changing. They do realise the consequences of another GC no vote.

There will not be another GC no vote simply because there will not be another referendum until you drop your ridiculous demands and accept something reasonable. Until then we can negotiate for decades as far as I am concerned. Or of course you can drop out of the negotiations. Your choice.

[Expatkiwi]

There will not be another GC no vote simply because there will not be another referendum until you drop your ridiculous demands and accept something reasonable. Until then we can negotiate for decades as far as I am concerned. Or of course you can drop out of the negotiations. Your choice.

Might be the best thing... to drop out of the negotiations, I mean.

[growuptcs]

There will not be another GC no vote simply because there will not be another referendum until you drop your ridiculous demands and accept something reasonable. Until then we can negotiate for decades as far as I am concerned. Or of course you can drop out of the negotiations. Your choice.

Might be the best thing... to drop out of the negotiations, I mean.

What do you think would happen to the wizzard of oz if you force him to resign?