Cyprus-Forum.com

[-mikkie2-]

Round in circles we go again!

I feel that people such as Piratis are the real defeatists. Instead of thinking about the opportunities that will open up in the region once a solution comes about, they look at the narrow view.

The viewpoint of the rejectionists is more guided by fear of the unknown instead of the excitement of opportunity. Yes, the solution needs to be fair and viable. Nobody is disputing that. I for one would not vote for a plan that gave effective control of the island to Turkey.

I have said countless of times before that Cyprus post-solution could not be a Turkey by proxy within the EU. This will simply be unacceptable to the rest of the EU. I also fail to see how a TC president that was partly elected by GC's would be a puppet of Turkey. For example, you can't have a presidential term of say 6 years, where in the 4 years of a GC president Cypurs follows one policy and then for the following 2 year TC presidency it follows another. Can you imagine the chaos that would cause in the EU for example?

It is ridiculous to think that Cyprus could operate like that.

[Piratis]

In 1958 Cyprus is a British colony and the Greek Cypriots are waging an armed struggle for enosis.

Correct. And to add to that, enosis was our legitimate right, as defined by UN resoutions about Decolonization which define " integration into an independent State" as one of the "three legitimate options of full self-government"
http://www.un.org/Depts/dpi/decolonizat ... ration.htm
We asked for nothing we didn't have the right for.

The Turkish Cypriot minority is petrified by the sheer thought of enosis and memories of Crete come to mind.

Lame Turkish excuses, trying to excuse the attack of TCs against innocent Greek Cypriots.

What happened in Crete was during the war between Greece and Turkey and the subsequent population exchange as agreed with the Lausanne Treaty. Far more Greeks were expelled from Asia Minor and this population exchange benefited the Turks, not the Greeks.

Rhodes, which also has a Turkish minority, united with Greece in 1948 and nothing happened to the Turkish minority there. The same goes for the minority in Thrace.

The British are bound to react, to protect their vested interests in the island and most importantly, in the Middle East, have just left Egypt.

oh, so some foreign Imperialists are "bound to react" by killing and oppressing the Cypriot people, and so they are excused according to your "logic", but the Cypriot people are not supposed to fight to secure their own interests on their own island?

The extremists in the Turkish community see taksim (partition) as the only solution to their fears. The Greek Cypriots of EOKA did not try to alienate the fears of the progressive Turkish Cypriots who resisted Denktash and TMT, but started murdering innocent Turkish Cypriots who were sworn enemies of TMT, like the father of Kutlai Erk, who was dragged out of sick bed in Nicosia General Hospital and executed in cold blood. These actions sent the progressive masses of Turkish Cypriots into the embrace of TMT which offered them protection. Thus, we started losing this battle as soon as EOKA and the war lords (Lyssarides, Sampson, Papadopoulos-Yiorgatzis) targeted the Turkish Cypriots. It was a terrible crime and now we are paying the bill for these actions.

The last thing EOKA and GCs wanted was to start a second front with the Turks. EOKA tried to avoid this as much as they could, but when the TCs started to kill more and more innocent Greek Cypriots EOKA was forced to react.

If some innocent TCs were mistakenly killed during this conflict this can is attributed to GC (and TC) extremists. Lyssarides and Papadopoulos and the general GC population had nothing to do with this.

I like it how you disassociate the "TC extremists" and their crimes from the general TC population, but you don't do the same for GCs. If some TCs commit crimes you attribute those crimes only to "TC extremists" and you don't believe that the general TC population should be punished for the crimes committed by a few. But you don't use the same logic when it comes to GCs, since you believe that the whole GC population should be accountable for the actions of each and every member of our community.

Piratis thinks that we can just forget the past and expect people to grant us exactly what we want, nothing more, nothing less. Things do not work like this I am afraid.

I never expected that others will grant to us what we want. On the other hand you are having illusions of others offering to us a solution to our problem. What they want to solve is their own problem (EU accession of Turkey) not our problem. Time for you to wake up.

Putting the blame on others will not help either but what is of utmost importance and Piratis cannot see, is the fact that nothing will remain the same, if we do not solve the issue soon.

Nothing ever remains the same. Even the greatest empires fall given enough time. And of course we want to solve the problem as fast as possible. Do you have any SOLUTION to offer? So far you didn't.

As we are is a no go. Things will just keep getting worse and worse and we will remain on our own, denounced even by mother Greece, which rightly wants peace with Turkey and settlement of all pending issues.

Things will get way way worst if we accept something like Annan plan. Since we rejected the Annan plan nothing got worst for us. It got worst for Turkey and the TCs since now we are able to put obstacles to the EU accession of Turkey, and we are able to pursue our rights in the ECHR and the ECJ, something we would not be able to do if we had accepted the Annan plan.

[Get Real!]

The Greek Cypriots of EOKA did not try to alienate the fears of the progressive Turkish Cypriots who resisted Denktash and TMT, but started murdering innocent Turkish Cypriots who were sworn enemies of TMT,...

The Police and the Greek Population.

If Harding carefully had planned to alienate the entire Greek
population of the island and push the moderate Greeks into full
support of EOKA, he could not have done better than by his policy
of unleashing a horde of untrained, poorly-led Turkish police on the
population. Communal violence, rare in Cyprus before the insurgency,
flared up in 1956 and increased throughout the insurgency. When
the Turks rose against the Greeks, usually in response to an EOKA
killing of a Turkish policeman, the all-Turkish Special Mobile Reserve
and Auxiliary Police routinely stood by as Turkish mobs assaulted
Greek civilians and ransacked their property.90 The Cyprus Police
were not merely passive about their duty to protect all Cypriots from
lawbreaking. During a series of searches in Famagusta, the Auxiliary
Police were accused of looting Greek homes. While Harding
dismissed claims of police and military abuse as Greek propaganda,
his own officers saw the issue rather differently. The district police
commissioner of Famagusta noted that many of his policemen had
come from the lowest level of Turkish society and “are known not to
have been beyond criminal activities in the past.” Of the allegations
of police looting, he commented, “I myself have little doubt that
there is substance in a fair proportion of them.”

Page 32 under...

http://www.strategicstudiesinstitute.ar ... PUB648.pdf

[-mikkie2-]

"Things will get way way worst if we accept something like Annan plan. Since we rejected the Annan plan nothing got worst for us. It got worst for Turkey and the TCs since now we are able to put obstacles to the EU accession of Turkey, and we are able to pursue our rights in the ECHR and the ECJ, something we would not be able to do if we had accepted the Annan plan."

This is a false assumption Piratis. Individual rights could not be erased by accepting the Anan plan, or any other plan for that matter. If the plan had been accepted, there would still have been a flood of applications to the ECHR and judgements passed at the ECJ. I bet that if the Anan plan was accepted (I didn't agree to it by the way) much of it would have had to be re-written to take account of fundamental rights of EU citizens.

[Get Real!]

Round in circles we go again!

I feel that people such as Piratis are the real defeatists. Instead of thinking about the opportunities that will open up in the region once a solution comes about, they look at the narrow view.

The viewpoint of the rejectionists is more guided by fear of the unknown instead of the excitement of opportunity. Yes, the solution needs to be fair and viable. Nobody is disputing that. I for one would not vote for a plan that gave effective control of the island to Turkey.

Any plan based on communities automatically lays the groundwork for the Turkey Vs Greece tag of war to be formalized and fully implemented thereby replacing the sovereign democratic republic of Cyprus!

Which part of racist divide & rule tactics do you still NOT understand after all these years?

[-mikkie2-]

Any plan based on communities automatically lays the groundwork for the Turkey Vs Greece tag of war to be formalized and fully implemented thereby replacing the sovereign democratic republic of Cyprus!

Which part of racist divide & rule tactics do you still NOT understand after all these years?

Ok, then GR. Have a war with Turkey to solve the problem once and for all.

Or alternatively try to maintain the status quo, and sit back and wait for the balance of power to change in the region. By which time of course northern Cyprus would be a part of an EU excluded Turkey and be flooded with a million Turks waiting for another excuse to grab the rest of the island!

Are there any other options?

[DT.]

"Things will get way way worst if we accept something like Annan plan. Since we rejected the Annan plan nothing got worst for us. It got worst for Turkey and the TCs since now we are able to put obstacles to the EU accession of Turkey, and we are able to pursue our rights in the ECHR and the ECJ, something we would not be able to do if we had accepted the Annan plan."

This is a false assumption Piratis. Individual rights could not be erased by accepting the Anan plan, or any other plan for that matter. If the plan had been accepted, there would still have been a flood of applications to the ECHR and judgements passed at the ECJ. I bet that if the Anan plan was accepted (I didn't agree to it by the way) much of it would have had to be re-written to take account of fundamental rights of EU citizens.

So proceed with an ill designed unworkable constitution and try to amend it later in order to make it work. Where have I seen this movie before?

[Get Real!]

The viewpoint of the rejectionists is more guided by fear of the unknown instead of the excitement of opportunity.

What exactly do you see that people like Piratis and I do not?

Share your excitement with us so that we may understand!

[Get Real!]

"Things will get way way worst if we accept something like Annan plan. Since we rejected the Annan plan nothing got worst for us. It got worst for Turkey and the TCs since now we are able to put obstacles to the EU accession of Turkey, and we are able to pursue our rights in the ECHR and the ECJ, something we would not be able to do if we had accepted the Annan plan."

This is a false assumption Piratis. Individual rights could not be erased by accepting the Anan plan, or any other plan for that matter. If the plan had been accepted, there would still have been a flood of applications to the ECHR and judgements passed at the ECJ. I bet that if the Anan plan was accepted (I didn't agree to it by the way) much of it would have had to be re-written to take account of fundamental rights of EU citizens.

So proceed with an ill designed unworkable constitution and try to amend it later in order to make it work. Where have I seen this movie before?

Some people it seems need to see that movie 3-4 times to understand it! What they don't realize though is that they won't have that many chances to see it!

[-mikkie2-]

What exactly do you see that people like Piratis and I do not?

Share your excitement with us so that we may understand!

1. Business opportunities
2. Investment opportunities
3. Faster travel and air transport hub for the region
4. Increase in the shipping fleet
5. Increase in job opportunities
6. Strengthened financial hub for the region
etc
etc

Basically, it will play on the enterprising strengths of the Cypriot people.