Cyprus-Forum.com

by **Tony-4497** » Fri Nov 13, 2009 11:39 am

Piratis wrote:Tony, I am not sure if the president will have a winning vote or not, but certainly the Cypriot people will not be able to take any important decision in a democratic way without the decision first being approved by Turkey. The whole of Cyprus will be under the control of Turkey as the pseudo state is today.

We made a compromise for a BBF, but that doesn't mean we should give to Turkey the control of the whole Cyprus. With any kind of BBF Turkey would probably maintain her influence over the north part of Cyprus, but we should be stupid to accept something that would give the power to Turkey to control the whole island.

Agreed - and I am pretty sure our leader has accepted winning vote for the President.. this was in order to remove the need for the foreign judges etc.. it's what DIKO "hardliners" are currently shouting about, but no answer is being provided by the government..

by **-mikkie2-** » Fri Nov 13, 2009 11:48 am

"And that's because the GC leader, in a burst of generosity, has accepted, for the first time, Turkish rotational presidency WITH executive authority..

..this means that for the 2 or 3 years when the 82% GCs will have a TC or more likely TURKISH president, the latter will also have the winning vote in any deadlock. This means that for the period of Turkish presidency of the united RoC, the 82% GCs will not only be unable to make any decisions, but will ALSO be unable to BLOCK any decisions."

This is nonsense. The whole point of the election of the TC and GC presidents is that they are voted in by BOTH communities on a single ticket, even if the GC votes will be weighted in the case of the TC president. I believe that is what Christofias is insisting on and the TC side is not playing ball. So, no, this has not been sorted as you seem to suggest.

The plan B of the Turkish side if these talks fail is the gradual absorbtion of northern Cyprus into Turkey. The border of the EU will be through Cyprus. The north will be flooded with Turkish settlers and at some point they will outnumber the GC's in the south. Do you really want to have an uncontrolled flood of settlers in the north?

The only way to stop this uncontrolled flood of settlers is to have a solution. A united Cyprus in the EU will have strict controlls on immigration as opposed to the situation now where mainland Turks come and go as they please. If things stay as they are, in 20 years time we will be faced with a majority Turkish population on the island and God help us if a war breaks out.

Simplistic arguments don't wash anymore. We need to see the wider picture and find our place in it.

by **YFred** » Fri Nov 13, 2009 11:51 am

-mikkie2- wrote:"And that's because the GC leader, in a burst of generosity, has accepted, for the first time, Turkish rotational presidency WITH executive authority..

..this means that for the 2 or 3 years when the 82% GCs will have a TC or more likely TURKISH president, the latter will also have the winning vote in any deadlock. This means that for the period of Turkish presidency of the united RoC, the 82% GCs will not only be unable to make any decisions, but will ALSO be unable to BLOCK any decisions."

This is nonsense. The whole point of the election of the TC and GC presidents is that they are voted in by BOTH communities on a single ticket, even if the GC votes will be weighted in the case of the TC president. I believe that is what Christofias is insisting on and the TC side is not playing ball. So, no, this has not been sorted as you seem to suggest.

The plan B of the Turkish side if these talks fail is the gradual absorbtion of northern Cyprus into Turkey. The border of the EU will be through Cyprus. The north will be flooded with Turkish settlers and at some point they will outnumber the GC's in the south. Do you really want to have an uncontrolled flood of settlers in the north?

The only way to stop this uncontrolled flood of settlers is to have a solution. A united Cyprus in the EU will have strict controlls on immigration as opposed to the situation now where mainland Turks come and go as they please. If things stay as they are, in 20 years time we will be faced with a majority Turkish population on the island and God help us if a war breaks out.

Simplistic arguments don't wash anymore. We need to see the wider picture and find our place in it.

You guys are just so funny. As if a war broke out now will be any different.

by **Tony-4497** » Fri Nov 13, 2009 1:06 pm

YFred wrote:
Tony-4497 wrote:Mikkie

Can you imagine the TC's blocking particualr legislastion or agreements because it doesn't suit Turkish interests? It will go down like a lead baloon! Cyprus will not become a Turkey by proxy.

The key here is to ensure that there is a rock solid deadlock resolution mechanism in a united federal Cyprus. And its here were the leaders are stumbling on and it will be interesting to see how this will be resolved.

To add to Piratis's points, pls note that we are WAY past this now... The leaders are no longer stumbling on this issue..

And that's because the GC leader, in a burst of generosity, has accepted, for the first time, Turkish rotational presidency WITH executive authority..

..this means that for the 2 or 3 years when the 82% GCs will have a TC or more likely TURKISH president, the latter will also have the winning vote in any deadlock. This means that for the period of Turkish presidency of the united RoC, the 82% GCs will not only be unable to make any decisions, but will ALSO be unable to BLOCK any decisions.

We are finally getting somewhere. We have to trust each other, otherwise it will fall appart like last time, remember.
It takes 2 to tango.

The best way to ensure that it does fall apart is the FAIRNESS of the solution. If, for example, people are not given the option between compensation, exchange and restitution of their properties (so effectively these are taken away in return for insufficient compensation), then the chances of conflict, revolt etc on the ground will be high... not to mention all the other areas such as governance, economy etc.

The important thing here is that, unlike last time the state collapsed, the 82% GCs will NOT be able to claim control of the legal status of a STATE.. they will now simply be an unrecognised community, exactly as "TRNC" is now..

by **Tony-4497** » Fri Nov 13, 2009 1:20 pm

"And that's because the GC leader, in a burst of generosity, has accepted, for the first time, Turkish rotational presidency WITH executive authority..

..this means that for the 2 or 3 years when the 82% GCs will have a TC or more likely TURKISH president, the latter will also have the winning vote in any deadlock. This means that for the period of Turkish presidency of the united RoC, the 82% GCs will not only be unable to make any decisions, but will ALSO be unable to BLOCK any decisions."

This is nonsense. The whole point of the election of the TC and GC presidents is that they are voted in by BOTH communities on a single ticket, even if the GC votes will be weighted in the case of the TC president. I believe that is what Christofias is insisting on and the TC side is not playing ball. So, no, this has not been sorted as you seem to suggest.

You are talking nonsense - probably missed a few episodes.. let us discuss again after you have checked your facts re what exactly has been agreed

The plan B of the Turkish side if these talks fail is the gradual absorbtion of northern Cyprus into Turkey. The border of the EU will be through Cyprus. The north will be flooded with Turkish settlers and at some point they will outnumber the GC's in the south. Do you really want to have an uncontrolled flood of settlers in the north?

The only way to stop this uncontrolled flood of settlers is to have a solution. A united Cyprus in the EU will have strict controlls on immigration as opposed to the situation now where mainland Turks come and go as they please. If things stay as they are, in 20 years time we will be faced with a majority Turkish population on the island and God help us if a war breaks out.

According to your rationale, we should accept any solution Turkey throws at us.. ain't gonna happen.. thank god they had to introduce referenda..

The RoC should immediately link EU-Turkey talks with a block on further inflow of settlers (monitored by regular consensus by independent organisations) and development of stolen property (very easy to monitor).

by **Bananiot** » Fri Nov 13, 2009 2:47 pm

There is nothing wrong with having a Turkish Cypriot President of Federal Cyprus. Especially if the President is elected with Greek Cypriot votes too. This will also be the beginning of a healthier political life in Cyprus where for the first time Greek Cypriots and Turkish Cypriots will group together for the conceived interest of the whole island. I think it's a damn good system.

Your conclusion, Tony, that anyone interested in a speedy solution, will accept anything thrown by Turkey, is rather childish and one used "ad nauseum" here in Cyprus by people who simply do not want BBF but do not have the guts to say it.

by **Gregory** » Fri Nov 13, 2009 2:53 pm

Bananiot wrote:There is nothing wrong with having a Turkish Cypriot President of Federal Cyprus. Especially if the President is elected with Greek Cypriot votes too. This will also be the beginning of a healthier political life in Cyprus where for the first time Greek Cypriots and Turkish Cypriots will group together for the conceived interest of the whole island. I think it's a damn good system.

Your conclusion, Tony, that anyone interested in a speedy solution, will accept anything thrown by Turkey, is rather childish and one used "ad nauseum" here in Cyprus by people who simply do not want BBF but do not have the guts to say it.

Agreed, there is absolutely nothing wrong with having a TC president of Cyprus.

There is a lot wrong however with a country FORCED to pick a President every 4 years from only 20% of the population.

The fact that any TC President will naturally be governed by Turkey is also forgotten.

I am all for a BBF Bananiot. Just don't buy these racist clauses that are being forced down my throat.